|
BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20)
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Runway8 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers...   |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
I was quite surprised by the comment from you. It seemed like it was all lined up for Kuz, not two separate points. Now it makes sense.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
I will say this though, lists like that reflect what the nation thinks of the rookies, maybe not so much of California or Los Angeles.
Imagine Tatum or Mitchell as Laker players. Do you think Tatum stays that efficient? Do you think Mitchell gets overwhelmed playing PG for the Lakers (essentially?)
Mitchell is a stud that everyone missed. But there's only so much we can see on the screen, especially with Louisville's and Kentucky's system. Some coaches are hiding player's talents out there, unintentionally I'm sure.
There's nothing about Tatum or Mitchell that indicate that he'll derail off trajectory. Both are known as good dudes with the work ethic. The difference is, Mitchell's and Tatum's talents are far more common than Lonzo's. Scoring + PnR vs Passing/vision + defense.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| deal wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | A bunch of you are suckers for the flavors of the month. It has happened time and time again in the NBA. Players debut in the NBA like a bat outta hell, only to not progress, stay where they are, or even regress. I would even caution us to not get too excited about Kyle Kuzma. I'm good with Lonzo. He'll be waiting for his draft class, with time to spare, at the finish line. |
One of the best scoring rookies in Laker history and we're suckers... |
I like Kyle Kuzma. I like all our rookies. That was a comment for people salivating for others we could have had instead of Lonzo. |
It's buyers remorse, we all get it at times. We did more than fine but could have done better if we had nailed one of the top two players. We didn't we move on... |
not known to wear rose colored glasses when it comes to Ball.....but even I would be hesitant to label who are the best 2 or 3 or even 5 players from this draft....all we know now is who had the best rookie seasons....we will learn more next year, and even more the next season in regards to the best players from the draft. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is what happens when rookies get drafted into their most ideal situations.
What's the remaining upside for Mitchell vs Lonzo?
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | This is what happens when rookies get drafted into their most ideal situations.
What's the remaining upside for Mitchell vs Lonzo? |
to really answer that question....would have to know if Utah plans on keeping him @ SG.....there has been speculation that they would maybe move him to PG full time at some point in the future. If that happened, he has a ton of room to grow into that position....because he is currently a great scorer, but he does not sniff being a great PG without a lot of improvement in several areas. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | This is what happens when rookies get drafted into their most ideal situations.
What's the remaining upside for Mitchell vs Lonzo? |
to really answer that question....would have to know if Utah plans on keeping him @ SG.....there has been speculation that they would maybe move him to PG full time at some point in the future. If that happened, he has a ton of room to grow into that position....because he is currently a great scorer, but he does not sniff being a great PG without a lot of improvement in several areas. |
He's already playing default PG for the team as far as I'm concerned. Rubio is basically C&S because it's Mitchell setting everybody up.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | I will say this though, lists like that reflect what the nation thinks of the rookies, maybe not so much of California or Los Angeles.
Imagine Tatum or Mitchell as Laker players. Do you think Tatum stays that efficient? Do you think Mitchell gets overwhelmed playing PG for the Lakers (essentially?)
Mitchell is a stud that everyone missed. But there's only so much we can see on the screen, especially with Louisville's and Kentucky's system. Some coaches are hiding player's talents out there, unintentionally I'm sure.
There's nothing about Tatum or Mitchell that indicate that he'll derail off trajectory. Both are known as good dudes with the work ethic. The difference is, Mitchell's and Tatum's talents are far more common than Lonzo's. Scoring + PnR vs Passing/vision + defense. |
Mike I think it's an overstatement to say that nobody could have seen mitchell turning out like this. Mitchell jumped to me. more i watched him more i loved him and he ended up 5 on my board. especially his DX interview and his workout vids his easy stroke and elite athleticism jumped off the screen to me.
_________________
substance over style |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 44TheLogo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | I will say this though, lists like that reflect what the nation thinks of the rookies, maybe not so much of California or Los Angeles.
Imagine Tatum or Mitchell as Laker players. Do you think Tatum stays that efficient? Do you think Mitchell gets overwhelmed playing PG for the Lakers (essentially?)
Mitchell is a stud that everyone missed. But there's only so much we can see on the screen, especially with Louisville's and Kentucky's system. Some coaches are hiding player's talents out there, unintentionally I'm sure.
There's nothing about Tatum or Mitchell that indicate that he'll derail off trajectory. Both are known as good dudes with the work ethic. The difference is, Mitchell's and Tatum's talents are far more common than Lonzo's. Scoring + PnR vs Passing/vision + defense. |
Mike I think it's an overstatement to say that nobody could have seen mitchell turning out like this. Mitchell jumped to me. more i watched him more i loved him and he ended up 5 on my board. especially his DX interview and his workout vids his easy stroke and elite athleticism jumped off the screen to me. |
He jumped to you and I remember that. But I don't recall the heavy PnR reps or heavy playmaking responsibilities out of Louisville. I just remember the 3 and D and attack closeout stuff. That's what I mean.
It's like KAT, Kevin Love, and Anthony Davis all hiding jumpshots and perimeter skills because their coaches had them playing in the paint.
It's also like Devin Booker playing a role similar to "shooter" when by the time he's at the NBA level he's a combo guard, #1 option on a bad team, #2 or #3 on a good team, with playmaking skills. Just didn't really get to see a lot of frequency of that.
I don't deny the athleticism, easy shot, attacking style, etc.
I definitely couldn't buy 55% finishing at the rim, until now.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
only 44TheLogo and a couple of Louisville strippers had Mitchell in their Top 5  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | 44TheLogo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | I will say this though, lists like that reflect what the nation thinks of the rookies, maybe not so much of California or Los Angeles.
Imagine Tatum or Mitchell as Laker players. Do you think Tatum stays that efficient? Do you think Mitchell gets overwhelmed playing PG for the Lakers (essentially?)
Mitchell is a stud that everyone missed. But there's only so much we can see on the screen, especially with Louisville's and Kentucky's system. Some coaches are hiding player's talents out there, unintentionally I'm sure.
There's nothing about Tatum or Mitchell that indicate that he'll derail off trajectory. Both are known as good dudes with the work ethic. The difference is, Mitchell's and Tatum's talents are far more common than Lonzo's. Scoring + PnR vs Passing/vision + defense. |
Mike I think it's an overstatement to say that nobody could have seen mitchell turning out like this. Mitchell jumped to me. more i watched him more i loved him and he ended up 5 on my board. especially his DX interview and his workout vids his easy stroke and elite athleticism jumped off the screen to me. |
He jumped to you and I remember that. But I don't recall the heavy PnR reps or heavy playmaking responsibilities out of Louisville. I just remember the 3 and D and attack closeout stuff. That's what I mean.
It's like KAT, Kevin Love, and Anthony Davis all hiding jumpshots and perimeter skills because their coaches had them playing in the paint.
It's also like Devin Booker playing a role similar to "shooter" when by the time he's at the NBA level he's a combo guard, #1 option on a bad team, #2 or #3 on a good team, with playmaking skills. Just didn't really get to see a lot of frequency of that.
I don't deny the athleticism, easy shot, attacking style, etc.
I definitely couldn't buy 55% finishing at the rim, until now. |
it's why i actually like something kiroe does which is to go back to high school/aau/pre-college tape to see the skills beyond what their college scheme dictates. it's how i was able to see julius as more than a back to the basket bully as he was used at kentucky.
_________________
substance over style |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
it's why i actually like something kiroe does which is to go back to high school/aau/pre-college tape to see the skills beyond what their college scheme dictates. it's how i was able to see julius as more than a back to the basket bully as he was used at kentucky |
Yep. Same. I definitely didn't look back that far. I'm curious to what Mitchell's assist rate now is compared to the beginning of the season, because I don't think the 19% he's at for the season is a reflection of his current play.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Treble Clef
Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 23912
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | Hart at 20 is egregiously bad |
feels that way....but when I look at the guys on the list, I could probably play devils advocate on why the 19 before him should be there based on the value they are projected to bring to their team. |
Hart has a legit case against Kennard, Zach Collins, Jordan Bell, Bam, John Collins. Well, at least he had a clearly better season than all of those guys except J.Collins but probably still a bit better year by Hart. Guess the writer just isn't very high on his upside, that's a very opinion based thing - outlooks. Monk is also arguable |
Hart had a lot of opportunity and did well with it. I think the upside is the difference. Looking to the future, I think everyone likes him as a solid bench guy who can start when needed. Late 1st round sounds right to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
it's why i actually like something kiroe does which is to go back to high school/aau/pre-college tape to see the skills beyond what their college scheme dictates. it's how i was able to see julius as more than a back to the basket bully as he was used at kentucky |
Yep. Same. I definitely didn't look back that far. I'm curious to what Mitchell's assist rate now is compared to the beginning of the season, because I don't think the 19% he's at for the season is a reflection of his current play. |
Oct.- 18.5
Nov.- 19.1
Dec.- 21.1
Jan.- 16.6
Feb.- 19.0
Mar.- 18.9
Apr.- 18.9 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerSanity
Moderator
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 33474
Location: Long Beach, California
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think Mitchell is more Lillard than Westbrook. He is a bigger leaper than Lillard, but the rest of their games are very similar to me.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Twitter: @DeleteThisPost
Last edited by LakerSanity on Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: |
it's why i actually like something kiroe does which is to go back to high school/aau/pre-college tape to see the skills beyond what their college scheme dictates. it's how i was able to see julius as more than a back to the basket bully as he was used at kentucky |
Yep. Same. I definitely didn't look back that far. I'm curious to what Mitchell's assist rate now is compared to the beginning of the season, because I don't think the 19% he's at for the season is a reflection of his current play. |
Oct.- 18.5
Nov.- 19.1
Dec.- 21.1
Jan.- 16.6
Feb.- 19.0
Mar.- 18.9
Apr.- 18.9 |
 wow
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
|
|
| Nashlight wrote: | http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2770321-re-drafting-the-2017-nba-draft-1st-round
4) Lonzo Ball (down from #2)
9) Kyle Kuzma (up from #27)
20) Josh Hart (up from #30)
Agree, disagree? |
LOL Fultz #2. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerSanity wrote: | | I think Mitchell is more Lillard than Westbrook. He is a bigger leaper than Lillard, but the rest of their games are very similar to me. |
May 30, 2017:
5. Donovan Mitchell. Defensive upside at the wing with developing offensive skills. Capable shooter. Incredible measurables. One of the very few prospects in this draft with the possibility of becoming a true two way player. We all wonder what Damian Lillard would be if he were bigger and played better defense...Donovan Mitchell has that kind of talent
http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?p=7274725#7274725
_________________
substance over style |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
|
|
| CervantesRises wrote: |
6. Markkinan...Pau Gasol but tougher. |
If we're talking about rookie Gasol, then also note "minus the shot blocking and defense", but sure "tougher", whatever that means. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
|
|
| MickMgl wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: |
6. Markkinan...Pau Gasol but tougher. |
If we're talking about rookie Gasol, then also note "minus the shot blocking and defense", but sure "tougher", whatever that means. |
Markkinan's defense was adequate at times this season....which is more than I expected. I think he could get to a serviceable level on defense. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
