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CervantesRises
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 Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | ...that Issac is even close to Kuz is a joke...watched him a handful of times after the ASB...kid was absolutely lost. |
think you must have been watching someone else....everyone that I know that watched Isaac this season and written or commented on him has been very impressed. I would definitely draft Jonathan Isaac ahead of Kuzma. |
It wasnt...it was him and he was absolutely lost.
Please tell me what everyone saw in 27 games, 10 starts with this stat line
Season
2017-18
Career
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2017-18 20 ORL NBA PF 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4
Career NBA 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4
Individual game logs.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/isaacjo01/gamelog/2018
My suspicion is that the people who told you that Issac was impressive were the same one's saying Fultz should be rated as the 2nd best player in last year's draft based upon the last game of the season where the headline was that he became the youngest ever to stat a triple double...and then when you look at the stats it was a 13, 10, 10 in a meaningless game for both teams.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/f/fultzma01/gamelog/2018
I'm not hating on either player, but for the purposes of this thread topic...how you can rate them at 2 (Fultz) and 9 (Issac) given the lack of games played and production when playing...well, that's beyond me.
1. Mitchell...no brainer, kid went to a playoff-ready team and performed beautifully.
2. Tatum...debatable because he had a helluva start with an up & down 2018 but he was very durable.
3. Zo...Laker record with and without him speaks volumes...shot was broken, fixed, then broken again...lots to work on but also had more on his shoulders than any other rookie and I think it was Magic and Rob's idea from the start that he would only play 50 to 60 games...which is a great strategy more teams should use on any players under 21.
4. DJS...explosive player...easy to be excited about.
5. Kuz...came back strong after hitting the rookie wall...played with the passion and 4th quarter grit of a champion.
6. Markkinan...Pau Gasol but tougher.
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Last edited by CervantesRises on Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| the truth is....still mostly based on speculation...in about 2-3 years, we will have a more solid idea who should have been drafted where.... |
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jwbrown77
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | one thing is for sure....2017 has at least solidified itself as being a deep draft....will have to wait a few more years to know if it will be a historic draft. |
Was just thinking the same thing. Appears to be a particularly deep draft.
Not sure it will generate a generational talent like LeBron or Kobe, but there are a lot of quality players that look like solid NBA regulars/all stars. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | ...that Issac is even close to Kuz is a joke...watched him a handful of times after the ASB...kid was absolutely lost. |
think you must have been watching someone else....everyone that I know that watched Isaac this season and written or commented on him has been very impressed. I would definitely draft Jonathan Isaac ahead of Kuzma. |
It wasnt...it was him and he was absolutely lost.
Please tell me what everyone saw in 27 games, 10 starts with this stat line
Season
2017-18
Career
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2017-18 20 ORL NBA PF 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4
Career NBA 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4 |
he is 20 years old....nearly 7 Feet...has shown the ability to spread the floor with his shooting....and has amazing defensive instincts. Once he adds some "ass weight", he could have the ability to bend the court with his defense, especially off ball defense and weak side rim protection. I posted above, but this season in the limited sample of him and Gordon on the court as the Forwards....Orlando had a defensive rating of 90.4. That is incredible, but especially for a terrible defensive team like Orlando. It is not what he is overall currently....it is what he projects to be....and that is a high impact defensive player whose offensive game will hopefully develop into something positive. |
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defense
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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How does Fultz come in at 2 barely playing any games and having reports say he has a mental problem with his shooting?
Mitchell and Tatum ahead of Lonzo I'm fine with but Fultz? If its about potential then Lonzo should still be 2 or 3.
And Fox ahead of Kuzma? Again what is it based on just potential because Fox was not very good this season? |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| defense wrote: | How does Fultz come in at 2 barely playing any games and having reports say he has a mental problem with his shooting?
Mitchell and Tatum ahead of Lonzo I'm fine with but Fultz? If its about potential then Lonzo should still be 2 or 3.
And Fox ahead of Kuzma? Again what is it based on just potential because Fox was not very good this season? |
kind of.....potential and probability or reaching that potential...that is what every draft is based on.....the list is not based on who had the best rookie seasons. |
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audioaxes
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Fultz above Tatum and Ball is ridiculous.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | I'm not hating on either player, but for the purposes of this thread topic...how you can rate them at 2 (Fultz) and 9 (Issac) given the lack of games played and production when playing...well, that's beyond me. |
It is not a "rating"....it is a draft which is a projection. It is not based on what they have done, but what is expected they will do. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | ...that Issac is even close to Kuz is a joke...watched him a handful of times after the ASB...kid was absolutely lost. |
think you must have been watching someone else....everyone that I know that watched Isaac this season and written or commented on him has been very impressed. I would definitely draft Jonathan Isaac ahead of Kuzma. |
It wasnt...it was him and he was absolutely lost.
Please tell me what everyone saw in 27 games, 10 starts with this stat line
Season
2017-18
Career
Season Age Tm Lg Pos G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% 2P 2PA 2P% eFG% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
2017-18 20 ORL NBA PF 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4
Career NBA 27 10 19.9 2.0 5.4 .379 0.6 1.7 .348 1.4 3.7 .394 .434 0.7 0.9 .760 0.6 3.1 3.7 0.7 1.2 1.1 1.0 1.8 5.4 |
he is 20 years old....nearly 7 Feet...has shown the ability to spread the floor with his shooting....and has amazing defensive instincts. Once he adds some "ass weight", he could have the ability to bend the court with his defense, especially off ball defense and weak side rim protection. I posted above, but this season in the limited sample of him and Gordon on the court as the Forwards....Orlando had a defensive rating of 90.4. That is incredible, but especially for a terrible defensive team like Orlando. It is not what he is overall currently....it is what he projects to be....and that is a high impact defensive player whose offensive game will hopefully develop into something positive. |
The ultimate potential pick...I get that...but this redraft seemed like it's supposed to be based on production and what was seen on the court as speculation turns into reality.
He definitely hasn't shown the ability to spread the floor...just look at his shot chart and percentages...most of his work is on put backs and he definitely looked lost during offensive sets.
Defensive rating has a lot more to do with him being on the court against back ups.
If this kid is what Orlando is hoping for then they are screwed. He's Nerlen's Noel with a lower defensive IQ. So glad he's not our problem.
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | I'm not hating on either player, but for the purposes of this thread topic...how you can rate them at 2 (Fultz) and 9 (Issac) given the lack of games played and production when playing...well, that's beyond me. |
It is not a "rating"....it is a draft which is a projection. It is not based on what they have done, but what is expected they will do. |
Then a projection with a year of data has to account for durability along with production.
Fultz above Tatum and Zo? Do you really want to defend a BR BS report that does that?
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | I'm not hating on either player, but for the purposes of this thread topic...how you can rate them at 2 (Fultz) and 9 (Issac) given the lack of games played and production when playing...well, that's beyond me. |
It is not a "rating"....it is a draft which is a projection. It is not based on what they have done, but what is expected they will do. |
Then a projection with a year of data has to account for durability along with production.
Fultz above Tatum and Zo? Do you really want to defend a BR BS report that does that? |
seriously, your bringing durability into a discussion that your arguing Ball was underrated? Have your opinion....it's fine....but I would guess most draft analysts/scouts would have a list very similar to this list. Personally, I would definitely draft Fultz over Tatum and Ball. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Defensive rating has a lot more to do with him being on the court against back ups. |
right, cause Gordon is clearly always playing against backups.....simply throwing mud against the wall hoping something sticks....if you think he is a terrible player...cool, but you are in a small minority of thought. |
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CervantesRises
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: BR: Re-Drafting 2017 NBA Draft (Ball #4, Kuzma #9, Hart #20) |
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| adkindo wrote: | | CervantesRises wrote: | | Defensive rating has a lot more to do with him being on the court against back ups. |
right, cause Gordon is clearly always playing against backups.....simply throwing mud against the wall hoping something sticks....if you think he is a terrible player...cool, but you are in a small minority of thought. |
Kid played 27 games and averaged 5 points at 7 feet...only thing muddy around here is your bias...which has been on full display for over a year now with Zo.
He started 10 games, which means he was playing his limited minutes against 2nd teamers if you watched any of his games and you cherry picked the one stat that MIGHT be a positive for him given that he was playing alongside a solid young vet. So tell me...how many minutes did he acquire that 90.4 ratinging in? And against which competition? And you want to accuse me of throwing excrement against the wall? LoL.
Would I rather have Fultz? Hell's no with his 10 games played. Zo played 52 and I am 100% positive that was by design by the FO.
Tatum is nice...but is he better than Kuzma? I personally dont think so, but I respect folks that say Tatum is better. From where I stand we got Lonzo to play the tempo we want to...mission accomplished.
We got our Tatum AND Zo to boot.
Had we been able to draft Fultz and did...what is everyone saying given his season this year? Do we go +9 again?
Had we drafted Tatum...then Kuz never happens.
I think you're horribly wrong about Fultz and Issac just like you were about the FO when they took over...time will tell...until then...
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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Jumping into the Kuzma v. Isaac debate, I love Isaac's upside, but offensively he needs to be at PF (if not C) to have maximum impact, and I question if he'll ever get strong enough to hold his own against starting bigs. If he does, his switchability and instincts will make him a terror defensively as a 4/smallball 5.
Kuz will always be the lesser defender between the two, but the flashes of upside I saw from him to end the year at SF (h/t to Cranjis, he was bad at SF for much of the year, but improved a lot there over the last 10-ish games) would put him in a position to mitigate his biggest weakness on defense - his strength - while allowing him to exploit his size advantage on the wing on offense.
I just don't see Isaac rising above Robert Horry offensively. He's shown little as a creator except as a basic ball mover and he has demonstrated zero scoring "dog-ness" at FSU or with Orlando. Kuzma will always be better offensively, and the question will be how much better Isaac becomes defensively and how lethal he becomes as a spot-up shooter so that his aggregate value puts him above Kuz. Because Kuz could develop into an All-Star second option on offense and I think Isaac would have to be a DPOY candidate to overcome that gap. |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Hart and Kuzma give Maginka so much flexibility when it comes to roster construction. Both guys look like legit starters and they cost less than $5M combined for each of the next three seasons. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I love our 2017 class.
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I'd take Tatum over Fultz with the 2nd pick.
| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Kuzma and Hart are steals but what about Lonzo?
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Deleted - posted in wrong thread.
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Last edited by LakerSanity on Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | I'd take Tatum over Fultz with the 2nd pick.
| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Kuzma and Hart are steals but what about Lonzo? |
He's the best player in the draft, so at #2 he was a little bit of a steal  |
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | I'd take Tatum over Fultz with the 2nd pick.
| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Kuzma and Hart are steals but what about Lonzo? |
He's the best player in the draft, so at #2 he was a little bit of a steal |
He is or he will be because right now, it looks like Mitchell is the best rookie.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | Durant is a great one on one player. However, he doesn't have the same gravity as Curry, who's ability to play off the ball makes the entire defense constantly shift to keep track of him thereby creating seems for everyone else to exploit. Curry makes Golden State's offense run much more than Durant can. |
Durant is an incredible off-ball player and I think he's currently the best player in the NBA above Lebron and Steph by a hair. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | I'd take Tatum over Fultz with the 2nd pick.
| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Kuzma and Hart are steals but what about Lonzo? |
He's the best player in the draft, so at #2 he was a little bit of a steal |
He is or he will be because right now, it looks like Mitchell is the best rookie. |
He will be, but Tatum is the best rookie right now, regardless. |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | LakerSanity wrote: | | Durant is a great one on one player. However, he doesn't have the same gravity as Curry, who's ability to play off the ball makes the entire defense constantly shift to keep track of him thereby creating seems for everyone else to exploit. Curry makes Golden State's offense run much more than Durant can. |
Durant is an incredible off-ball player and I think he's currently the best player in the NBA above Lebron and Steph by a hair. |
Lol. I posted this in the wrong thread.
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lakersfever714
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | I'd take Tatum over Fultz with the 2nd pick.
| The Grind wrote: | | Point is we got ourselves a couple of steals this past draft. |
Kuzma and Hart are steals but what about Lonzo? |
He's the best player in the draft, so at #2 he was a little bit of a steal |
He is or he will be because right now, it looks like Mitchell is the best rookie. |
He will be, but Tatum is the best rookie right now, regardless. |
As a Lakers fan, I sure hope that assumption will be correct.
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