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| Fools Gold? |
| Yes |
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19% |
[ 30 ] |
| No |
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57% |
[ 88 ] |
| Unsure |
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23% |
[ 36 ] |
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| Total Votes : 154 |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26409
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 Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: |
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The fact some people would pretty much act like
"There's no place for a 20/10/4 guy that can defend all 5 positions on a team that's looking to add Paul George and LeBron James to the roster" is ludicrous at levels I haven't seen in quite some time.
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waterman40
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Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: |
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It's all about fit, having an uber strong big man, who can score aplenty around the basket, can be a huge asset if you have good perimeter players around him. Randle did terrific playing next to Brook Lopez. I'd like him back, especially if we can pay him around $14-15 million a year. Lets see how free agency works out.
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El Seano
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 895
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| It was my initial concern but the level of consistency he had in the second half of the season won me over. Also he is known for being a hard worker in the off season, I mean just the physical changes from last season alone are astounding. I think Julius is the real deal and will only improve over this next contract. The Lakers won't let him go. |
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Serious question.
Is there any player in the league that is both stronger and faster than Randle? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | I'm not a fan of Randle's game, but I'd rather sign and trade him then lose him for nothing. I just don't think he's worth what he's going to get paid. |
Gotta give you credit for being consistently wrong
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54630
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:05 am Post subject: |
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Jules is a valuable piece to the team however if Dallas or anyone else offers 20 mil per season for 4 ($80) years we are in a tough spot. I would hate to let him walk, but more than likely, at that price he's probably a goner.
There are so many other variables and options out there that this summer is sure to be filled with enough drama, intrigue and suspense for everybody. ..... I can't wait!  |
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25653
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| waterman40 wrote: | | It's all about fit, having an uber strong big man, who can score aplenty around the basket, can be a huge asset if you have good perimeter players around him. Randle did terrific playing next to Brook Lopez. I'd like him back, especially if we can pay him around $14-15 million a year. Lets see how free agency works out. |
The problem is that assuming the two max plan works, Randle wouldn’t play next to Lopez, he would either be a 6th man off the bench behind The Big 4 Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron or play Center full time. Neither of which is ideal for different reasons. 6th man would be an expensive one as hell at that, and full time Center would be a disaster for him and the team as he’s too short and doesn’t have the length to man the defensive line.
Cousins getting a torn Achilles really made this offseason difficult because otherwise it George and Cousins would have been easy signings and Randle’s future here wouldn’t be in doubt.
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:55 am Post subject: |
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The metaphor doesn't apply (Fool's Gold) in that he isn't being mistaken for something he might be easily be (unlike iron pyrite.)
It may be unclear what his value to the Laker future is, but there's not much mistaking what he can and cannot do today. He can be priced fairly rather easily but there are risks which must be weighed by the club that come with the free agent negotiating process. |
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LawyerShawn
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 1834
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Fortysixn2 wrote: | I think his scoring, rebounding and physical play tell the story of a young guy who is improving. If you just looked at that...he is a young stud, ready to get paid and who is improving...so from that aspect he is solid. His decision making, his defense and his shot outside of 5 feet tell a different story. That second story tell of a young guy with offensive skills around the rim who was heavily relied upon by an offensively challenged young group and who’s offensive numbers have been propped up out of necessity.
I guess, for me, the answer to the question is that if you pay him like he is a potential franchise player, yes..it’s fools gold. We have had a few players who put up very good offensive numbers, out of necessity for us but when they go to play for other good teams it’s apparent they aren’t very good and don’t put up numbers.
Examples
Clarkson - one of our leading scorers, has played less than 20 minutes in 4 of the last 8 cleveland games and has scored in single figures in 5 of those.
Nance - who was our starting PF at the start of the season and scored in double figures 3 out of his first 4 games this season has only scored in double digits 3 times in his last 13 games after coming back from injury
Nick Young - who started for us last season and was our leading scorer only a few years back has only scored in double figures 1 time in his last 13 games and has gotten a total of 15 minutes of PT in the first round, even with curry hurt.
My point is that our general lack of talent has had us relying on guys that weren’t that great to score and when they go to playoff level teams it’s apparent that they just aren’t that good. If we pay Randle like he is a 20/10 guy on a playoff team, then yes...he is fools gold and we are throwing money away. Reality is that if he was traded to a playoff or championship contender his numbers may be better than say Nance’s, but not by much and we aren’t even talking about his defense, passing and decision making
He is a decent young player who is progressing and has been heavily leaned on to put up numbers. If we pay him like a young, slightly better than average starter on an 8 seed playoff team who has potential to get better...we are valuing and paying him correctly. If we throw a ton of money at him because we think his talent and numbers will hold up when Ball/Ingram/Kuzma progress and we bring real all star talent like PG aboard...then yes, we are the fools who will have a lot less gold then we should. |
This is a great breakdown of #3.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Serious question.
Is there any player in the league that is both stronger and faster than Randle? |
I would love him as a defensive edge player, he would dominate in the NFL.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | It's all about fit, having an uber strong big man, who can score aplenty around the basket, can be a huge asset if you have good perimeter players around him. Randle did terrific playing next to Brook Lopez. I'd like him back, especially if we can pay him around $14-15 million a year. Lets see how free agency works out. |
The problem is that assuming the two max plan works, Randle wouldn’t play next to Lopez, he would either be a 6th man off the bench behind The Big 4 Ball/George/Ingram/Lebron or play Center full time. Neither of which is ideal for different reasons. 6th man would be an expensive one as hell at that, and full time Center would be a disaster for him and the team as he’s too short and doesn’t have the length to man the defensive line.
Cousins getting a torn Achilles really made this offseason difficult because otherwise it George and Cousins would have been easy signings and Randle’s future here wouldn’t be in doubt. |
Ingram is the guy in that group who should be coming off the bench. I would guess that Lebron would want Randle on the floor with him.
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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If Randle wants 4 years/80 mill from us he's gonna have to wait till we get turned down from Lebron and PG13 in free agency.
I don't see our front office offering him that as soon as free agency starts. That feels like a plan B or plan C sort of idea.
Personally I think he's overpriced with that contract.
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54630
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | If Randle wants 4 years/80 mill from us he's gonna have to wait till we get turned down from Lebron and PG13 in free agency.
I don't see our front office offering him that as soon as free agency starts. That feels like a plan B or plan C sort of idea.
Personally I think he's overpriced with that contract. |
Also I'm not totally convinced that anyone will even offer 80 mil either. It's all speculation at this point. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12722
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | I'm not a fan of Randle's game, but I'd rather sign and trade him then lose him for nothing. I just don't think he's worth what he's going to get paid. |
Gotta give you credit for being consistently wrong |
about what? My opinion about Randle has always been based on what he gets paid. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | If Randle wants 4 years/80 mill from us he's gonna have to wait till we get turned down from Lebron and PG13 in free agency.
I don't see our front office offering him that as soon as free agency starts. That feels like a plan B or plan C sort of idea.
Personally I think he's overpriced with that contract. |
Also I'm not totally convinced that anyone will even offer 80 mil either. It's all speculation at this point. |
TMZ says Utah, Portland, and Brooklyn are interested (no price specified).
But I can't find any trustworthy sources that can back that up. Some site called blasting news brought up those 3 teams and Dallas as well.
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JPaulK0n
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| If the Lakers are going for LeBron/PG and/or Kawhi, paying Randle big money doesn't make sense when you have Kuzma, who plays the same position and also on a cost controlled contract until 2021 and already just as effective of a player for much less than what Randle is going to make. Especially if the Lakers are able to sign LeBron, who at this stage is more of a 4, Randle isn't a full time center and LeBron is at his best with shooters around him, which isn't Randle's game. At the end of the day, Randle is from the old regime than apart of Maginka's front office, who are more than likely going to prioritize "their guys", i.e. Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, etc. Mitch/Jim Buss drafts pick of Russell, Clarkson, & Nance are already gone since Maginka tookover, and Randle is probably going to be next, especially if a team wants to pay Randle $20 mill. BI is the only one left that wasn't a Maginka pick or FO move, and if Kawhi is really available, they would definitely trade BI if they could get Bron/Kawhi/PG this summer. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I think Jules is maximized if he is with a stretch big (i.e. Brook).
He was previously paired up with Mozgov and Hibbert, and that was disastrous.
I don't think you can fully evaluate Jules without knowing who plays "center" next to him. |
I came here to post this exact thing. One of the very few things that makes me hesitant about spending big money on Jules is knowing that the pieces surrounding him need to be a bit calculated to bring out his full potential.
Nothing against the guy and all the work he put in. But Lakers will need a solid stretch 5 & surrounding shooting talent to maximize his effectiveness. If that's not a given, I'd rather roll with Kuzma.
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26409
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Except Mozgov and Hibbert were known for having a mid range game.
Also Randle's issues with Hibbert and Mozgov didn't have to do with their style of play as a center, it had to do with his progression and where he was as a player at that specific time.
When you watch GTs breakdown on his improvements, as well as the weaknesses he had the previous year, none of them had to do with "see this center on Randle's team in Randle's way?"
Also when it comes to centers available in free agency, it's either mainly Cousins or Lopez, whom both fit next to Randle.
Whiteside and Noel wouldn't, but they (especially Noel hopefully) aren't on the Lakers radar.
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Car54
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Is Randle Fools Gold? |
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| VicXLakers wrote: | | LawyerShawn wrote: |
(3) How effective is his "bully ball" style in the playoffs, when team defenses increase?
What do you think? |
bully ball is playoff basketball |
There really isn't much the opposition could do when hes using his brain to defend it he added a euro step the last 5 games so I'm excited to bring him back and see how improved he is.
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King Randle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Is this really a question? The guys kicks ass and you’re questioning his abilities and motivation. Nice |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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He is what he is. Which is pretty good.
Would I want him to be the 3rd highest paid player on the team? Hmm |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26409
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Serious question.
Is there any player in the league that is both stronger and faster than Randle? |
You'd be hard pressed to find another forward that can beat John Wall down court while dribbling downhill when John had 3-4 steps on him already.
In terms of Strength AND Speed in combination, the closest thing to it is in all honesty LeBron. But even when LeBron tried to outmuscle Randle it didn't really move him, so LeBron did other things.
So if there was a list of strength + speed in the NBA now, I'd say LeBron, Randle and Giannis would be on that list (Simmons isn't 'stronk' yet)
And I'd say you could argue, and many may agree, that Randle is the strongest of those 4.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JPaulK0n wrote: | | If the Lakers are going for LeBron/PG and/or Kawhi, paying Randle big money doesn't make sense when you have Kuzma, who plays the same position and also on a cost controlled contract until 2021 and already just as effective of a player for much less than what Randle is going to make. Especially if the Lakers are able to sign LeBron, who at this stage is more of a 4, Randle isn't a full time center and LeBron is at his best with shooters around him, which isn't Randle's game. At the end of the day, Randle is from the old regime than apart of Maginka's front office, who are more than likely going to prioritize "their guys", i.e. Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, etc. Mitch/Jim Buss drafts pick of Russell, Clarkson, & Nance are already gone since Maginka tookover, and Randle is probably going to be next, especially if a team wants to pay Randle $20 mill. BI is the only one left that wasn't a Maginka pick or FO move, and if Kawhi is really available, they would definitely trade BI if they could get Bron/Kawhi/PG this summer. |
Sure, if you ignore defense, rebounding and creating for others.
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JPaulK0n
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Joined: 06 Feb 2018
Posts: 2478
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | JPaulK0n wrote: | | If the Lakers are going for LeBron/PG and/or Kawhi, paying Randle big money doesn't make sense when you have Kuzma, who plays the same position and also on a cost controlled contract until 2021 and already just as effective of a player for much less than what Randle is going to make. Especially if the Lakers are able to sign LeBron, who at this stage is more of a 4, Randle isn't a full time center and LeBron is at his best with shooters around him, which isn't Randle's game. At the end of the day, Randle is from the old regime than apart of Maginka's front office, who are more than likely going to prioritize "their guys", i.e. Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, etc. Mitch/Jim Buss drafts pick of Russell, Clarkson, & Nance are already gone since Maginka tookover, and Randle is probably going to be next, especially if a team wants to pay Randle $20 mill. BI is the only one left that wasn't a Maginka pick or FO move, and if Kawhi is really available, they would definitely trade BI if they could get Bron/Kawhi/PG this summer. |
Sure, if you ignore defense, rebounding and creating for others. |
It's a perimeter game now, Kuz's 3 point ability is just much more valuable to have in your PF than Randle's non existent perimeter game. It took Randle 4 years to become a good player in the NBA, Kuzma was already good his first year. They are both the same age, but Kuz is going to be on his rookie deal for 3 more seasons, while Randle is going to be making much, much more, so if you go by cost of production, you go with Kuz. Kuz improved his defense as the season went by, along with just being a much smoother and quicker decision maker when he has the ball compared to Randle who tends to hold the ball much more in his decision making than Kuz. Also, Kuz showed that he can play and guard the SF position as well late in the season when he started at the 3. Randle has made a lot of improvements in his game, especially on defense, but Kuzma is just a more valuable player to have in today's NBA than Randle. If Randle is one of your top 2 highest paid players, not sure that's the most ideal situation for your team if you want to be a real contender or even a playoff team with all the talent in the Western Conference. |
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Car54
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Al Horford is the starting Center on the best defensive team in the league.
So I think Randle's defense could work at Center even with his lack of size and wingspan.
I've given up on Randle being a floor spacer though (unless he's bringing the ball downcourt himself). His rebounding ability makes up for that deficit in my book.
If we run Randle at the 5 with a big 3 (Lebron, PG13, Kawhi). We should up the pace to somewhere close to the Pelicans. We have a guy similar to Rondo with Lonzo at PG. Floor spacing could become an issue though. |
Huh? George Leonard and james all can shoot the 3
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