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Fools Gold? |
Yes |
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19% |
[ 30 ] |
No |
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57% |
[ 88 ] |
Unsure |
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23% |
[ 36 ] |
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Total Votes : 154 |
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JOENESS Rookie
Joined: 21 Apr 2018 Posts: 5
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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yes fools gold |
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AshesToAshes Star Player
Joined: 20 Jun 2009 Posts: 4837
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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no, if PF
yes, if C _________________ KOBE!!! |
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Goldenwest Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2801
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Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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No, he's not fools gold, the only weakness in his game is his shot, and that actually improved this year, and will get better i believe next year.
I'm more worried that we may pay a max slot to an aging about to decline Lebron than i am about Randle (assuming we can manage to keep him) |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:11 am Post subject: |
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Goldenwest wrote: | No, he's not fools gold, the only weakness in his game is his shot, and that actually improved this year, and will get better i believe next year.
I'm more worried that we may pay a max slot to an aging about to decline Lebron than i am about Randle (assuming we can manage to keep him) |
Actually no his shooting regressed.
He was 35% from 10-16 feet, 26% from 16+ feet, and 22% from deep. Regressed even more this year from deep. He barely made a 2% improvement at 39% from 3-10 feet.
The difference and real improvement is his 73% from 0-3 feet. Inside the basket he has made big strides and that's great. But it's very concerning to not see any improvement from his shooting in his 4 years in the league. Even regressing. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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Goldenwest Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2801
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:26 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Goldenwest wrote: | No, he's not fools gold, the only weakness in his game is his shot, and that actually improved this year, and will get better i believe next year.
I'm more worried that we may pay a max slot to an aging about to decline Lebron than i am about Randle (assuming we can manage to keep him) |
Actually no his shooting regressed.
He was 35% from 10-16 feet, 26% from 16+ feet, and 22% from deep. Regressed even more this year from deep. He barely made a 2% improvement at 39% from 3-10 feet.
The difference and real improvement is his 73% from 0-3 feet. Inside the basket he has made big strides and that's great. But it's very concerning to not see any improvement from his shooting in his 4 years in the league. Even regressing. |
Ok, I stand corrected on the outside shooting percentage. His shot seemed a bit better this year, maybe because he was more selective and less reliant on it. His shooting form is good though. I don’t see the cause for concern. If he works on the shot, the percentage will go up, and opponents will give it to him cause they’re so worried about his driving ability. He’s the real deal, I hope we do t lose him. |
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MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26082
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:59 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24995
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:29 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Nurkic can't cover 1 - 5 on defense like Randle does. Yes, Randle needs, have to, develop a jumper and expand his offensive repertoire. His track record so far, since his injury, he has improved year after year. I would hate for us to miss out on this guy when he hit his peak. The question is not Randle's commitment/skills/athleticism, the question is $ number |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
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J.C. Smith Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 12665
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Fortysixn2 wrote: | Larger center eat him up honestly. |
He had a couple times early in the season where he got taken to school (Embiid and someone else), and then he played much better against the same players the second time around. Opposing centers actually shot a higher eFG against Lopez (54.2%) and Bogut (55.9%) than they did against Randle (51.4%). |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: |
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fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. |
Yep one of many examples. Also neither the Spurs wants to help the Lakers in anything, and Randle might not agree to let so don't get your hopes up. |
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Fortysixn2 Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:50 am Post subject: |
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fontana3d wrote: | Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. |
Yep one of many examples. Also neither the Spurs wants to help the Lakers in anything, and Randle might not agree to let so don't get your hopes up. |
What are the other examples? I guess maybe not trading Pau in his last year? I guess trading Clarkson and nance without knowing if we need the cap space? That could be a potential one, although Clarkson was probably overpaid. I think most if not all agree that we won the dlo trade just based on the fact we got kuzma or Hart out it, same goes for the Louwill trade. Dlo + louwill for Hart + kuzma? All day every day.
If I had to guess, we will sign PG and Alex Len and resign Julius to 4 years 64 and all parties will be happy. I don’t think we are close enough for LBJ to come here and there is no way SA trades us Kawhi..not us. |
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Fortysixn2 wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. |
Yep one of many examples. Also neither the Spurs wants to help the Lakers in anything, and Randle might not agree to let so don't get your hopes up. |
What are the other examples? I guess maybe not trading Pau in his last year? I guess trading Clarkson and nance without knowing if we need the cap space? That could be a potential one, although Clarkson was probably overpaid. I think most if not all agree that we won the dlo trade just based on the fact we got kuzma or Hart out it, same goes for the Louwill trade. Dlo + louwill for Hart + kuzma? All day every day.
If I had to guess, we will sign PG and Alex Len and resign Julius to 4 years 64 and all parties will be happy. I don’t think we are close enough for LBJ to come here and there is no way SA trades us Kawhi..not us. |
You just mentioned it we screwed up trading Pau badly. Anyways my point is no more dumb decisions. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:23 am Post subject: |
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fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. |
Yep one of many examples. Also neither the Spurs wants to help the Lakers in anything, and Randle might not agree to let so don't get your hopes up. |
What are the other examples? I guess maybe not trading Pau in his last year? I guess trading Clarkson and nance without knowing if we need the cap space? That could be a potential one, although Clarkson was probably overpaid. I think most if not all agree that we won the dlo trade just based on the fact we got kuzma or Hart out it, same goes for the Louwill trade. Dlo + louwill for Hart + kuzma? All day every day.
If I had to guess, we will sign PG and Alex Len and resign Julius to 4 years 64 and all parties will be happy. I don’t think we are close enough for LBJ to come here and there is no way SA trades us Kawhi..not us. |
You just mentioned it we screwed up trading Pau badly. Anyways my point is no more dumb decisions. |
Well for one, the FO did try to trade Pau in his last year. Didn't work out and nobody wanted him.
And second, all those were done by the old FO, old previous management that is no longer with the organization today (thank God too). So I expect Magic/Pelinka to be able to convert moves that the previous FO couldn't get done, which so far, has been very good.
What "many examples" are you talking about though? _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:29 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Megaton wrote: | fontana3d wrote: | Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
Still doesn't change that the Lakers will be stupid as usual by letting another player walk for nothing. |
Another player? Who you talking about? Dwight?
Yeah it would suck to let him go for nothing. Which is why my first priority would be to find a sign and trade deal. Especially with someone like the Spurs that may look to rebuild/retool with the Kawhi situation. |
Yep one of many examples. Also neither the Spurs wants to help the Lakers in anything, and Randle might not agree to let so don't get your hopes up. |
What are the other examples? I guess maybe not trading Pau in his last year? I guess trading Clarkson and nance without knowing if we need the cap space? That could be a potential one, although Clarkson was probably overpaid. I think most if not all agree that we won the dlo trade just based on the fact we got kuzma or Hart out it, same goes for the Louwill trade. Dlo + louwill for Hart + kuzma? All day every day.
If I had to guess, we will sign PG and Alex Len and resign Julius to 4 years 64 and all parties will be happy. I don’t think we are close enough for LBJ to come here and there is no way SA trades us Kawhi..not us. |
You just mentioned it we screwed up trading Pau badly. Anyways my point is no more dumb decisions. |
Well for one, the FO did try to trade Pau in his last year. Didn't work out and nobody wanted him.
And second, all those were done by the old FO, old previous management that is no longer with the organization today (thank God too). So I expect Magic/Pelinka to be able to convert moves that the previous FO couldn't get done, which so far, has been very good.
What "many examples" are you talking about though? |
Still don't mean s**t if we don't get anyone. Also I don't care what FO it is I still don't trust anyone or will get my hopes up for anything. Also Dwight and Pau are the two biggest ones. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Yet you have failed to name any others in your "many examples" post.
We literally named two for you. And both of them hardly even count for different reasons. |
We don't have time to name them all you jerk now back off. |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: |
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fontana3d wrote: | Megaton wrote: | Yet you have failed to name any others in your "many examples" post.
We literally named two for you. And both of them hardly even count for different reasons. |
We don't have time to name them all you jerk now back off. |
...What???
Take the L today. It happens to us all. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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Aike Starting Rotation
Joined: 17 May 2017 Posts: 274
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
His fans here might think he’s 23 and will continue to become better. What’s he worth 4 years from now if he’s a top 25-50 player? That’s the math you have to do, because you aren’t signing him for one season. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: |
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JPaulK0n wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | JPaulK0n wrote: | If the Lakers are going for LeBron/PG and/or Kawhi, paying Randle big money doesn't make sense when you have Kuzma, who plays the same position and also on a cost controlled contract until 2021 and already just as effective of a player for much less than what Randle is going to make. Especially if the Lakers are able to sign LeBron, who at this stage is more of a 4, Randle isn't a full time center and LeBron is at his best with shooters around him, which isn't Randle's game. At the end of the day, Randle is from the old regime than apart of Maginka's front office, who are more than likely going to prioritize "their guys", i.e. Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, etc. Mitch/Jim Buss drafts pick of Russell, Clarkson, & Nance are already gone since Maginka tookover, and Randle is probably going to be next, especially if a team wants to pay Randle $20 mill. BI is the only one left that wasn't a Maginka pick or FO move, and if Kawhi is really available, they would definitely trade BI if they could get Bron/Kawhi/PG this summer. |
Sure, if you ignore defense, rebounding and creating for others. |
It's a perimeter game now, Kuz's 3 point ability is just much more valuable to have in your PF than Randle's non existent perimeter game. It took Randle 4 years to become a good player in the NBA, Kuzma was already good his first year. They are both the same age, but Kuz is going to be on his rookie deal for 3 more seasons, while Randle is going to be making much, much more, so if you go by cost of production, you go with Kuz. Kuz improved his defense as the season went by, along with just being a much smoother and quicker decision maker when he has the ball compared to Randle who tends to hold the ball much more in his decision making than Kuz. Also, Kuz showed that he can play and guard the SF position as well late in the season when he started at the 3. Randle has made a lot of improvements in his game, especially on defense, but Kuzma is just a more valuable player to have in today's NBA than Randle. If Randle is one of your top 2 highest paid players, not sure that's the most ideal situation for your team if you want to be a real contender or even a playoff team with all the talent in the Western Conference. |
So a perimeter game doesn’t need rebounding, defense or setting up teammates? Keep digging. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Fortysixn2 wrote: | Megaton wrote: | MJST wrote: | Also the people going "yeah but can bully ball work in playoff atmosphere!"
have you SEEN how much more chippy it gets in the playoffs? |
The problem is bully ball is the ONLY option for Randle. Which makes him predictable especially in the playoffs.
Nurkic got exposed for playing the same kind of bully ball offense because that's also the only thing he can do as well, and he got his ass kicked for it.
Players with high usage that have more versatile offensive skill sets instead of just one style of ball thrive.
Let's think playoffs for a second, how do you suspect Randle to perform against the likes of Anthony Davis? Playoff Draymond Green? Rudy Gobert? How would you honestly think Randle would fair against those guys especially at Center? Honestly. |
Larger center eat him up honestly. He’s a 16/8 guy who plays a bit better than league average defense, is a good rebounder, can finish around the rim but cannot shoot, fouls a lot, turns the ball over a lot and averages less than a steal and a block per game.
I’m not sure what type of players his fans here think he is, but he’s really just another player in the league. If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player on your team you either have a lack of talent or you overpaid him. That’s the bottom line on old Jules. Unless he learns to shoot at a high efficiency from outside of maybe 10 feet he really has no additional upside at this point either. |
If he is the 1st or 2nd highest paid player then Randle isn’t the problem, the FO is. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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JPaulK0n Star Player
Joined: 06 Feb 2018 Posts: 2478
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | JPaulK0n wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | JPaulK0n wrote: | If the Lakers are going for LeBron/PG and/or Kawhi, paying Randle big money doesn't make sense when you have Kuzma, who plays the same position and also on a cost controlled contract until 2021 and already just as effective of a player for much less than what Randle is going to make. Especially if the Lakers are able to sign LeBron, who at this stage is more of a 4, Randle isn't a full time center and LeBron is at his best with shooters around him, which isn't Randle's game. At the end of the day, Randle is from the old regime than apart of Maginka's front office, who are more than likely going to prioritize "their guys", i.e. Lonzo, Kuzma, Hart, etc. Mitch/Jim Buss drafts pick of Russell, Clarkson, & Nance are already gone since Maginka tookover, and Randle is probably going to be next, especially if a team wants to pay Randle $20 mill. BI is the only one left that wasn't a Maginka pick or FO move, and if Kawhi is really available, they would definitely trade BI if they could get Bron/Kawhi/PG this summer. |
Sure, if you ignore defense, rebounding and creating for others. |
It's a perimeter game now, Kuz's 3 point ability is just much more valuable to have in your PF than Randle's non existent perimeter game. It took Randle 4 years to become a good player in the NBA, Kuzma was already good his first year. They are both the same age, but Kuz is going to be on his rookie deal for 3 more seasons, while Randle is going to be making much, much more, so if you go by cost of production, you go with Kuz. Kuz improved his defense as the season went by, along with just being a much smoother and quicker decision maker when he has the ball compared to Randle who tends to hold the ball much more in his decision making than Kuz. Also, Kuz showed that he can play and guard the SF position as well late in the season when he started at the 3. Randle has made a lot of improvements in his game, especially on defense, but Kuzma is just a more valuable player to have in today's NBA than Randle. If Randle is one of your top 2 highest paid players, not sure that's the most ideal situation for your team if you want to be a real contender or even a playoff team with all the talent in the Western Conference. |
So a perimeter game doesn’t need rebounding, defense or setting up teammates? Keep digging. |
Did you not watch Kuz as the season went on? Kuz had 17 double doubles as a rookie to Randle's 28. Showed that he can guard and play the 4 and the 3, and might be even better at the 3. They both average less than a block and steal a game, so not sure how Randle is this much superior defensive player. Randle needs the ball in his hands and tends to hog the ball to make up his mind, while Kuz already know what he is going to do immediately when he has the ball in comparison to Randle. Randle averaged 2.6 apg, while Kuz averaged 1.8, so not sure how Randle is much better in that category either. Kuz has just a more smoother and polished game than Randle. It took Randle 4 years to do all that you listed, Kuz in his first season is already showing signs that he can do that in his first year to go along with the much superior perimeter game. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:49 am Post subject: |
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JPaulK0n wrote: | Did you not watch Kuz as the season went on? Kuz had 17 double doubles as a rookie to Randle's 28. Showed that he can guard and play the 4 and the 3, and might be even better at the 3. They both average less than a block and steal a game, so not sure how Randle is this much superior defensive player. Randle needs the ball in his hands and tends to hog the ball to make up his mind, while Kuz already know what he is going to do immediately when he has the ball in comparison to Randle. Randle averaged 2.6 apg, while Kuz averaged 1.8, so not sure how Randle is much better in that category either. Kuz has just a more smoother and polished game than Randle. It took Randle 4 years to do all that you listed, Kuz in his first season is already showing signs that he can do that in his first year to go along with the much superior perimeter game. |
I realize that Kuzma is a fan favorite and that people get a bit irrational about him. Just the same, here is a side-by-side comparison of Randle and Kuzma. It really isn't close, especially when you account for minutes per game (the Per 36 numbers). Kuzma's only advantage is that he is a mediocre three point shooter, while Randle is a bad three point shooter. The Advanced numbers are especially telling, for example TRB% and Assist%.
You say that it took Randle four years to get to this point, but Kuzma spent four years in college. Kuzma would need to make a leap to get into the discussion with Randle. It's not impossible, but it's unlikely. Anyway, Randle is a PF/C, while Kuzma is a PF/SF. Unless Kuzma makes a transformation this late in his development, he is going to be a perimeter guy who can sometimes go inside. As of now, he is a defensive liability as a PF and lacks the three point shooting or passing to be a good SF. Again, he could get better, he doesn't have the expected career arc of a 19 year old one-and-done.
I'll leave it at that, because criticizing Kuzma tends to evoke hysteria. I'm not here to advocate giving Randle a max contract. I think some people overrate Randle. However, Kuzma is not a replacement for Randle. |
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