We're not the same team we've been the past 3 summersL
(1) Better team reputation – 9 more wins than last year, with clearly-improved defense;
(2) Better talent reputation – Noticeable improvement or flat-out surprise years from all of our young core players.
(3) Better FO reputation – Moz trade, TWO great sleeper picks in Hart and Kuz, IT and a 1stRP for spare-parts trade. Maginka got some swag back for the FO.
Last year, we had NO LEVERAGE to swing our cap space with. We still don’t have a ton, but we clearly have more bargaining strength than last year.
And our biggest strength? It’s that we do NOT have to deal this summer.
What do we do if worse comes to worst and we don’t get LBJ or PG?
(a) We re-sign Julius - even at a bit of an overpriced deal to ward off Cuban or some other FA suitor);
(b) We get another potential rotation player with the CLE pick - or maybe even 2 if Ryan West & Co. can pull another rabbit out of some other 2nd-round hat; AND
(c) Our young guys continue to improve.
If all of that happens, and if we avoid serious injuries, then we become a No. 8 or No. 7 playoff team, right in time for the 2019 FA summer.
This is what improvement and legitimate hope look like. We're going to be OK.
I disagree with 0 parts of this post. We really have some great BATNA's
Joined: 09 Apr 2012 Posts: 1948 Location: Southern California
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject:
I was thrilled when the Lakers didn't land anyone in 2014-15 and enraged in '16 when they panic signed two complete bums. They had to tank those years. Kupchak was hyping the veteran experience, but I knew Mozgov was crap and Deng was washed up. Plus the Lakers needed to give young guys those minutes. Now the Lakers even after trading Mozgov have the Deng contract to get out of.
As for free agency, totally different trajectory now. The Buss/Kupchak tandem was stale, the young players totally unproven or immature, and the coach a retread. In 14-15, a broken Kobe and mystique were their selling points. Shocking no FA cared about that and the fact the Lakers were winning 20 games.
All three of those things are better. But as someone above mentioned, two max thing is huge as is the lack of cap space among other teams. Lakers can stretch deng and let randle go and rely on no other teams to take back salary and sign two max guys. Huge. If the deal Deng and give up a couple firsts, they can even keep randle and sign two max guys. Instant upper echelon team in the NBA. _________________ 17 time World Champions
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7922 Location: Lake Forest
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:53 pm Post subject:
1) Jeanie isn't blabbing her mouth every chance she gets this time.
2) More money to throw around
3) The good teams are already set, so we won't loose this year's Aldridge to a better team.
4) We nee a guard, wing and big, so we can cast a wide net for FA's.
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: How would you explain to a pessimist fan that this summers FA won’t the same as in recent years
Inspector Gadget wrote:
If you had a debate with a negative fan, how would you explain that the New FO is different and then the last regime and that they won’t come up empty in the meetings?
I see a lot of fans say that they won’t be surprised if the same roster came back which in essence would mean that the FO came up dry in the off season.
I wanna see if realistic fans see the great mind that the current FO represents.
You first have to explain to the pessi-fan that the previous FO actually didnt come up empty since they were never going to get Melo, or Lamarcus. They only visited out of respect for kobe and the lakers organization. Neither had any real intentions on signing any where else outside of where they signed.
Melo was always staying in NY. If you dont think so then ask yourself why on earth did he not ask to be traded when Phil jackson started talking so poorly about him in the media while the knicks were sucking. There was no logical basketball reason to hang around. It's because he truly wanted to be in that city for his own personal reasons.
Aldridge was always going home to Texas and at the time houston wasnt looking as hot as they are now, and neither was the mavs, so the obvious choice is the spurs with the best chance for win now while being back at home. you get the combo pack right there. he was never passing that up.
and to boot tell the Pessi-Fan, that thank goodness we didnt get those guys. Look at melo right now. and even though Lemarcus looks good at times. He was never enough and he never was going to attrack other A level signings. Who the heck is trying to play with Aldridge? lol
So lastly, you let them know. The team we have is a lot more mature than the teams we had in the past. Our young core is so much better now than they were back then it means we have all sorts of ways we can get Free agents. Via straight up signing because they know our young core is already an 8th seed by themselves. with one superstar they are a 4th to 5th seed, with 2 stars they are a #2 seed.
if you need to entice Kawhi or AD away from their teams. You actually have Young guys that are showing really promising signs that they will be super solid role guys at WORSE at best allstars.
look at it like this.
Zo- FLoor- Super solid role player/ Ceiling-superstar pass first pg
Kuz - Floor- super solid clutch role player/ Ceiling - superstar
Randle - Floor- borderline allstar(prime odom, pre bunny ranch)/ Ceiling- charles barkley with defense
BI - Floor-borderline allstar/Ceiling Kawhi
That means you have assets to trade to a team that has to give up their star because he wants out. or they want to hit the reset button. and all of our guys are still super young.
I didnt even mention Josh hart as a filler because he's looking like the perfect clutch role guy on a championship team , in the making.
Notice i never mentioned anything about rob and magic...not yet. and the above is more than enough to feel good about this summer and next.
and if all else fails coming back with our young core wont be yet another losing season. we will be in the playoffs(barring severe injuries)
So no matter how you slice it. we gone be alright..
and last but not least. It's MAAAAGIC in the room with those free agents.
Just tell them that if they want to be pessimistic all the time, there’s another team in LA they can root for. The Clippers have never proven their pessimistic fans wrong.
I recently went to a family member's birthday lunch party. Four of us got to talking about the Lakers, and 2 of us were optimists, and the other 2 pessimists. We talked on the topic for about half hour, but my main points were:
1. they're a much improved team now, not just from the growth of their lottery picks but from the infusion of new talent (Ball, Kuzma, Hart)
2. for the first time, there is a linear vision for the team from top leadership to the bottom, which you can see from the players they let go (Jim divided the organization and didn't believe in communicating with the business side)
3. they have the most cap space in the league (of course they bring up the Lakers' failures in signing FA's, which led me to my next point...)
4. Magic Johnson is, and always has been, a winner and a closer. In a meeting with star free agents, Magic holds a different aura and level of credibility around the league then the dry Mitch Kupchak and baseball cap wearing Jim (they agreed with me on this, and one of the pessimists has even met Magic and spoke on his charismatic personality)
Just a small town boy, livin' in a cap space world
He took the midnight deal goin' anywhere
Just a city boy, born and raised in Lansing near Detroit
He took the midnight deal goin' anywhere
A singer in a smokey room
If only we could trade Deng soon
For a smile they can share the night
It goes on and on and on and on
(Chorus)
Free Agents waiting, up and down the boulevard
Their max deals searching in the night
Free Agent people, living just to find a max deal
Hiding, somewhere in the moratoriuuuuuuuuum.
Tanking hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin' Mozgov to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the offseason never ends
It goes on and on and on and on
(Chorus)
Don't stop believin'
Hold on to the feelin'
Cap Space people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on
Free Agent people
Don't stop believin'
Hold on to the feelin'
Cap Space people
EDIT: Obviously in my scenario there would need to be alcohol and pyrotechnics involved.
Last edited by El Seano on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:03 am; edited 2 times in total
Lot of room on the bandwagon! _________________ Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
------
....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring."
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144464 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:30 am Post subject:
Ziggy wrote:
I recently went to a family member's birthday lunch party. Four of us got to talking about the Lakers, and 2 of us were optimists, and the other 2 pessimists. We talked on the topic for about half hour, but my main points were:
1. they're a much improved team now, not just from the growth of their lottery picks but from the infusion of new talent (Ball, Kuzma, Hart)
2. for the first time, there is a linear vision for the team from top leadership to the bottom, which you can see from the players they let go (Jim divided the organization and didn't believe in communicating with the business side)
3. they have the most cap space in the league (of course they bring up the Lakers' failures in signing FA's, which led me to my next point...)
4. Magic Johnson is, and always has been, a winner and a closer. In a meeting with star free agents, Magic holds a different aura and level of credibility around the league then the dry Mitch Kupchak and baseball cap wearing Jim (they agreed with me on this, and one of the pessimists has even met Magic and spoke on his charismatic personality)
#2 is flat out wrong, it was Jeanie dividing the organization, she was the one sabotaging their attempts to sign FAs. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
I recently went to a family member's birthday lunch party. Four of us got to talking about the Lakers, and 2 of us were optimists, and the other 2 pessimists. We talked on the topic for about half hour, but my main points were:
1. they're a much improved team now, not just from the growth of their lottery picks but from the infusion of new talent (Ball, Kuzma, Hart)
2. for the first time, there is a linear vision for the team from top leadership to the bottom, which you can see from the players they let go (Jim divided the organization and didn't believe in communicating with the business side)
3. they have the most cap space in the league (of course they bring up the Lakers' failures in signing FA's, which led me to my next point...)
4. Magic Johnson is, and always has been, a winner and a closer. In a meeting with star free agents, Magic holds a different aura and level of credibility around the league then the dry Mitch Kupchak and baseball cap wearing Jim (they agreed with me on this, and one of the pessimists has even met Magic and spoke on his charismatic personality)
#2 is flat out wrong, it was Jeanie dividing the organization, she was the one sabotaging their attempts to sign FAs.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8347 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject:
greenfrog wrote:
trablos wrote:
Simply that FA's really, really, care about their confidence in the FO since it's a direct indication of the direction of the team. Two people might have similar strategies but different levels of credibility. Weather it was deserved or not, Jim had a horrible reputation and Mitch was guilty by association. Magic is the polar opposite, pretty much idolized by all current players, and Rob is a guy I wouldn't mind running my business for me.
I really don't believe that. The difference is simply money this time. If Mitch and Jim had ever allocated enough to bring in two top 15/max-level players, which essentially constitutes a new team, rather than ask just one to come in and carry the burden of leading a very crappy team the outcome could have been different.
I disagree. People tend to do business with people they like and respect. To get your foot in the door you need some kind of gravitas. Magic has tons of that. Seemed like no one around the league respected Jim Buss. Mitch was a solid GM, but he doesn't have any gravitas. Just having Magic and Rob can get FAs in the door to hear their pitch. Both of them are aggressive and shrewd but also really likeable. It also doesn't hurt that Ingram, Randle and maybe Ball are knocking on the door of stardom. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
I recently went to a family member's birthday lunch party. Four of us got to talking about the Lakers, and 2 of us were optimists, and the other 2 pessimists. We talked on the topic for about half hour, but my main points were:
1. they're a much improved team now, not just from the growth of their lottery picks but from the infusion of new talent (Ball, Kuzma, Hart)
2. for the first time, there is a linear vision for the team from top leadership to the bottom, which you can see from the players they let go (Jim divided the organization and didn't believe in communicating with the business side)
3. they have the most cap space in the league (of course they bring up the Lakers' failures in signing FA's, which led me to my next point...)
4. Magic Johnson is, and always has been, a winner and a closer. In a meeting with star free agents, Magic holds a different aura and level of credibility around the league then the dry Mitch Kupchak and baseball cap wearing Jim (they agreed with me on this, and one of the pessimists has even met Magic and spoke on his charismatic personality)
#2 is flat out wrong, it was Jeanie dividing the organization, she was the one sabotaging their attempts to sign FAs.
SMH, sometimes I cant tell if your trolling or actually believe the stuff that you be posting.
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject:
slavavov wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
trablos wrote:
Simply that FA's really, really, care about their confidence in the FO since it's a direct indication of the direction of the team. Two people might have similar strategies but different levels of credibility. Weather it was deserved or not, Jim had a horrible reputation and Mitch was guilty by association. Magic is the polar opposite, pretty much idolized by all current players, and Rob is a guy I wouldn't mind running my business for me.
I really don't believe that. The difference is simply money this time. If Mitch and Jim had ever allocated enough to bring in two top 15/max-level players, which essentially constitutes a new team, rather than ask just one to come in and carry the burden of leading a very crappy team the outcome could have been different.
I disagree. People tend to do business with people they like and respect. To get your foot in the door you need some kind of gravitas. Magic has tons of that. Seemed like no one around the league respected Jim Buss. Mitch was a solid GM, but he doesn't have any gravitas. Just having Magic and Rob can get FAs in the door to hear their pitch. Both of them are aggressive and shrewd but also really likeable. It also doesn't hurt that Ingram, Randle and maybe Ball are knocking on the door of stardom.
And yet Dan Gilbert was able to lure back Lebron. An owner's personality or gravitas doesn't matter that much. MJ can't sign a quality free agent to save his life.
To all the previously mentioned reasons, I'd add the circumstances of the free agents available and the market.
PG13 is an LA native and there's been oft-cited speculation that he wants to play for LA. OKC may be eliminated in the first round and they don't have an obvious path toward improvement.
LeBron has a house in LA, an apparently frayed relationship with Gilbert, and not the strongest supporting cast. Philly is the only other team that can sign him without a S&T. While the 76ers have the stronger core, if the Lakers sign George, trade Deng and keep Randle, it's debatable. Factor in playing in his city of residence, business opportunities, etc. and LA may have the edge.
While Cousins is a major risk, he doesn't have an obvious free agent fit.
To all the previously mentioned reasons, I'd add the circumstances of the free agents available and the market.
PG13 is an LA native and there's been oft-cited speculation that he wants to play for LA. OKC may be eliminated in the first round and they don't have an obvious path toward improvement.
LeBron has a house in LA, an apparently frayed relationship with Gilbert, and not the strongest supporting cast. Philly is the only other team that can sign him without a S&T. While the 76ers have the stronger core, if the Lakers sign George, trade Deng and keep Randle, it's debatable. Factor in playing in his city of residence, business opportunities, etc. and LA may have the edge.
While Cousins is a major risk, he doesn't have an obvious free agent fit.
Though an LA native, isn't Paul George is playing with another LA guy right now ? Westbrook inked that extension with the Thunder and he's no doubt working his best pitch on Paul George to stick around for the same reasons he used for himself.
If I'm Paul George, I might see my better chance for a few championship runs coming with a club a couple clicks further along the maturity scale than with the Lakers. The Thunder have their All-NBA guy, they have their starting center, and well, PG has been there just one campaign.
What do we have to offer ? Come play with four prospects named Joe (accomplishment-wise) and a nice looking possible shot at a future playoff berth in a year or two ? This is no sure thing here. It reads like a hard sell to top Free Agents with our club, at least as long as we aren't competing for a playoff berth. One step at a time for me, and at least 2017-2018 stands up as the end of the dumpster fire here, rather than the start of something big.
To all the previously mentioned reasons, I'd add the circumstances of the free agents available and the market.
PG13 is an LA native and there's been oft-cited speculation that he wants to play for LA. OKC may be eliminated in the first round and they don't have an obvious path toward improvement.
LeBron has a house in LA, an apparently frayed relationship with Gilbert, and not the strongest supporting cast. Philly is the only other team that can sign him without a S&T. While the 76ers have the stronger core, if the Lakers sign George, trade Deng and keep Randle, it's debatable. Factor in playing in his city of residence, business opportunities, etc. and LA may have the edge.
While Cousins is a major risk, he doesn't have an obvious free agent fit.
Though an LA native, isn't Paul George is playing with another LA guy right now ? Westbrook inked that extension with the Thunder and he's no doubt working his best pitch on Paul George to stick around for the same reasons he used for himself.
If I'm Paul George, I might see my better chance for a few championship runs coming with a club a couple clicks further along the maturity scale than with the Lakers. The Thunder have their All-NBA guy, they have their starting center, and well, PG has been there just one campaign.
What do we have to offer ? Come play with four prospects named Joe (accomplishment-wise) and a nice looking possible shot at a future playoff berth in a year or two ? This is no sure thing here. It reads like a hard sell to top Free Agents with our club, at least as long as we aren't competing for a playoff berth. One step at a time for me, and at least 2017-2018 stands up as the end of the dumpster fire here, rather than the start of something big.
Westbrook was able to sign a supermax deal, George won't be able to do so. Take PG13 off the Thunder and the Lakers have arguably the better roster, certainly the younger roster with more upside. Yes, unless they sign LeBron he wouldn't be playing with anyone as good as Westbrook, but it's not a big leap to think that the Lakers with PG13 will be better than the Thunder.
Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: How would you explain to a pessimist fan that this summers FA won’t the same as in recent years
venturalakersfan wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
If you had a debate with a negative fan, how would you explain that the New FO is different and then the last regime and that they won’t come up empty in the meetings?
I see a lot of fans say that they won’t be surprised if the same roster came back which in essence would mean that the FO came up dry in the off season.
I wanna see if realistic fans see the great mind that the current FO represents.
The organization has stopped tanking and the roster has been restocked some.
Would Magic and Pelinka have been able to close deals with Melo or LeBron or LMA etc a few years ago when the tanking campaign to restock the roster was in full swing?
Had we had Magic in the fold, I think he would have sealed the deal with Melo and Monroe, the others were more interested in winning and I don’t think the roster even with Rob and Pelinka would have been desirable cause of lack of talent and youth.
Yes
Because there is a better product to sell than a few seasons ago.
Philadelphia and LA took deep dives the past several seasons and are bouncing back up. The teams that have been just patching their rosters over the years such as Charlotte, Detroit etc are stuck in the middle with limited to no upside.
Yep, part of the reason why I think another reason of blowing up old FO and bringing in a new 1 is because the new regime knows more about the new CBA and how to construct and gather valuable assets.
Of course that isn’t true but when has the truth ever stopped you?
Did you read Bard's response right after yours? Someone got owned like always.
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