What is your most optimistic outlook for Zo, BI, Kuz, Randle, Hart?

Mike@LG

I've been reading a lot of "Well, I don't see any of these guys ever becoming a Top 5 or Top 10 NBA player" Yet, when I'm watching the playoffs, Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson, Russell Westbrook, Giannis Antetokounmpo, James Harden, Donovan Mitchell, and Rudy Gobert (I'm sure there are others), were not expected to become the NBA strong to NBA elite players in the league out of the draft, let alone after 1 year or even 3 years. Personally, that's too many guys for it to be considered outlier development.

So, I'm curious. What does everyone think of the highest, most optimistic upside of Zo, Ingram, Kuz, Randle, and Hart, and what would that look like on this squad?
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LakerSanity · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:40 pm Post subject:

Lonzo Ball: Jason Kidd with a jumpshot; top 5-10 player in the league and MVP candidate.

Brandon Ingram: A slightly better scoring, slightly better assisting and slightly worse defending Kawhi Leonard; top 5-10 player in the league and MVP candidate.

Kyle Kuzma: Glenn Robinson or a healthy Dani Gallinari who meets his potential; a 20+/7/3 guy with average defense who goes to 2-5 all star games; top 30-50 player in the league.

Julius Randle: A better scoring Draymond Green or better defending Blake Griffin, who goes to 2-3 all star games; top 40-60 player in the league.

Josh Hart: A better scoring Wes Matthews or Raja Ball; starting SG; top 80-120 player in the league.

Thomas Bryant: Sam Perkins. Role player off the bench.
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governator · Retired Number Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 25092

Zo - better defense, better shooting taller playoff Rondo (all star/borderline all star)
BI - perennial all star
Kuzma - all star/borderline all star
Randle - DPOY candidate
Hart - starting guard

LakerSD · Franchise Player Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23788

Assuming prime years, imo:

1. Lonzo - top 10
2. Ingram - PG13ish. Maybe not top 10 but in that next level of top 15-20
3. Kuzma - One of the top scorers in the league. Chance at top 20 player if he focuses on key development areas. He can already score proficiently.
4. Hart - The glue guy that is above average at everything and probably steals a few playoff games for the Lakers.
5. Randle - Physical 4/5 that will get his but to be an All-star a few times he will need to develop that 3. He has the talent to be a great passer but sometimes he forgets that he’s actually a good facilitator for a guy his size.

SocalDevin · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:46 pm Post subject:

Zo.. J Kidd

Ingram.. Pippen/KD hybrid

Kuz.. Jamison/Glen Rice hybrid

Randle.. Draymond Green/Zbo hybrid

Hart.. Fisher on steroids.

KeepItRealOrElse · Retired Number Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767

Zo: agree with LakerSanity, Kidd with a jumper top 5-10 player

Ingram: something like pre-prime pg13 offensively (37% 3s) 20ppg, with top 3 defense at his position, a lot of help-down blocks and suffocating 1v1 contests

Kuz: if Gallo stayed healthy, above average defense. 22ppg

Hart: prime Wes Mathews with some driving/finishing capability. top 10 SG

Randle: less scoring output Blake, with better defense

Bryant: top 8 Center. solid defense with knockdown 3pt shooting and good passing....

defense · Retired Number Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39532

Ball-one of the best PG's in the league by his 4 year
Ingram-somewhere around Paul George (maybe less scoring)
Randle-something like Blake Griffin (big numbers, suspect defense)
Hart-something like Shane Battier (numbers wont be huge but impact is)
Kuzma-hard to predict (hes stuck in between SF/PF) Rashard Lewis maybe?

venturalakersfan · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:57 pm Post subject:

Ball -Rondo
Ingram - Somewhere between Prince and George
Kuz - I like the Rashard Lewis comparison, as well as Horry
Randle - Draymond
Hart - 60% Westbrook
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Four Decade Bandwagon · Star Player Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8159

Ball- top 5 overall PGs in the League. Never a big scorer but a triple double threat every game and tenacious defense.

Kuzma- He reminds me of a poor man's Big Game James. Can he live up to the standard? Expect a consistent 20pt scorer in a variety of ways.

Hart- Love the Raja Bell comparison. Among the league best defenders that makes smart timely plays.

Ingram- Similar expectations of top 10 player. Multiple All-Star games as he develops and more importantly begins to believe in his own talents. Young Ingram has moments of indecision. Developing Ingram will learn to take over when needed just as Giannis, Butler, Leonard and George have learned to do.

Randle- He will be the most polarizing. Let him do what he does and he will be a borderline All-Star. Try to make him into an outside shooter and spread the floor and he will never be more then a disappointing role player. His toughness reminds me of a Z. Randolph or Anthony Mason. Let him dominate and bully. Every team needs "that guy".

Bryant- Has not shown me enough to have much of an opinion. If he can somehow meet his G-League exploits next year I may have to revisit my expectations.

I am very optimistic on the potential growth. Main reason I want the Lakers to be patient and allow the chemistry to build.

Fortysixn2 · Star Player Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Posts: 2849

Most Optimistic?

Lonzo Ball: The best defensive guard in the NBA, most assists in the NBA...average scorer who has some big nights. Jason Kidd who can shoot a better basically. 7-9 time all star, wins 2-3 titles, first ballot hall of fame.

Brandon Ingram: A good scoring versatile SF who can average 20 PPG, play some D and has some big nights. He reminds me a lot of Detlef Schrempf, potential to be a good all around player who makes a couple of all star games late in his career. Not an all timer, but someone who did it well.

Kyle Kuzma: High scoring streaky shooter who learns to play some better defense and is an alpha. Small possibility for him to become an allstar/franchise player because he has that “it factor). A slightly better shooting Dan Majerle, lots of exciting plays...always around the ball...lots of character, was a winner. could have a career 18-20 PPG average with some good years and some down years.

Julius Randle: A worse defending better passing Elton Brand. Just a big dude who really can’t shoot that makes a lot of plays around the basket. Scores a lot of points, maybe sniffs an all star game or two but doesn’t win a lot. Probably have a long career and put up numbers, but may not have the intangibles to be part of a championship level squad as a starter.

Josh Hart: A less “intense” version of Ron Artest. Can hit the shot, is a great defender and is very physical and is a winner. Artest at one point in his career was an amazing offensive player, I don’t know if Hart ever gets there...

Thomas Bryant: Best case? Yeah...as stated above, Sam Perkins. I haven’t been all that impressed with him to be very honest, but best case is Perkins.

SocalDevin · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:51 pm Post subject:

I think its worth mentioning the likelihood expressed in percentages maybe.. that these players will actually achieve our most optimistic projections.

Some have a higher ceiling than others, while also being less likely to reach it.

For example, I feel really confident about Ball reaching J Kidds level. I'm at about 80% sure it'l happen.

Ingram reaching Pippen/Durrant hybrid status isn't as likely, though it's a higher ceiling. I'd put it at 50%.

I'm 100% sure Kuz will be just as good as a Jamison/Glen Rice hybrid..

JPaulK0n · Star Player Joined: 06 Feb 2018 Posts: 2478

Most optimistic outlook:
Zo=Jason Kidd with a jumpshot
BI=Kawhi/Pippen hyprid version
Kuz=Glen Rice
Randle=a motivated and passionate Derrick Coleman that lives up to his potential
Hart=3 & D starter and winning player that can guard 1-3 (Shane Battier, Rick Fox, Ron Artest, etc.)

Annihilator · Star Player Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035

2019 · Franchise Player Joined: 03 Dec 2014 Posts: 10811

Ball-- top PG who is an MVP level player at 16/8/10 and elite D
Ingram-- Paul George meets Andre Iguodala. 24/5/5
Kuzma-- high level scorer/offensive player. 22ppg guy
Randle-- 16/8/4 Milsap meets Draymond without the shot but more speed
Hart-- coveted role player with elite D and always making the right play

MJST · Retired Number Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26386

Most optimistic?

Lonzo Ball - Healthy Penny Hardaway
Brandon Ingram - Giannis Antentekoumpo that can shoot 39-42% from three.
Kyle Kuzma - 3/4 Antawn Jamison with a three point shot
Julius Randle - with jumpshot, baby LeBron, without jumpshot, 20/10 version of Draymond Green(less dbag version of Blake Griffin that cares about defense would also be accepted) or rich man's Anthony Mason
Josh Hart - Bigger, stronger CJ McCollum that cares about defense
Thomas Bryant - More athletic Channing Frye
Ivica Zubac - Marc Gasol
Alex Caruso - If Fisher could dunk...
Travis Wear - Better defensive Channing Frye, poor man's Ryan Anderson
Andre Ingram - Kobe Bryant
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al242 · Star Player Joined: 28 Sep 2012 Posts: 3120

Laker's Fan · Franchise Player Joined: 27 Jun 2002 Posts: 12861

Randle: Superdad who takes three hours out of his busy parenting day to dominate fools in this league called the NBA.

Zo: 3M, he don't make your team, he makes your team better.

Ingram: Paul George, without the stripper baby mama

Kuzma: 6' 9" Kobe with a better 3 point shot but ends up being remembered for doing something weirder than THIS

Hart: Starting guard for five title teams while most fans can't figure out why.

Bryant: The only player named Bryant any Laker fan born after 2008 is familiar with.
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32 · Retired Number Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Posts: 73071

trablos · Star Player Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020

Well damn, with comparisons like these who needs cap space

Runway8 · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject:

Lonzo Ball: Jason Kidd with more scoring ability. Best pg in the game.

Brandon Ingram: Kawhi Leonard part 2. May end up better, that's why I don't want to deal for KL.

Kyle Kuzma: Antawn Jamison heights. Ultimately, will be bench scoring specialist.

Julius Randle: He won't be considered tops in the game, but his efficiency and toughness will be valued. He will always be a high earner, and NBA teams will always have a roster spot for him. Think along the lines of Paul Milsap, Malik Rose, Larry Johnson, Anthony Mason, Draymond Green, etc.

Josh Hart: Games are not exactly the same, but in terms of impact and value, I sense Byron Scott. B. Scott never made 1 all-star game, but he was a Laker lifer, known for his jumper and toughness. I don't think Hart will ever make an all-star squad, but he'll be a valued lifer like Scott.

Thomas Bryant: Honestly, I have no feel for this guy. Have not seen him enough. He shoots outside and has energy. If he defends and blocks too, I hope he's Serge Ibaka! LOL!

BTW, I know Scott went on to play for other teams, but that was when he was essentially done. And he's so beloved, he got himself the 2 yr Kobe babysit gig. That's why he's a lifer!

Scoffs · Starting Rotation Joined: 12 Aug 2001 Posts: 875

Lonzo: He'll break Magic's Laker assist record.
Brandon: Tayshaun with playmaking skills
Kuzma: A taller Klay.
Josh Hart: this generation's Michael Cooper; can shoot the three and lock down the other team's scorer
Randle: probably gone but if he stays, he becomes a much better defender
Thomas Bryant: Brook Lopez but 4 times faster

Mike@LG · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:04 pm Post subject:

Mike@LG · Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject:

Lonzo Ball: Jason Kidd. Better J. Better switchable D.

Brandon Ingram: 80% Giannis with better jumpshot. 38% career 3pt.

Kyle Kuzma: Tall Klay, but with TJ Warren's interior shooting/finishing, better playmaking.

Julius Randle: 2002 version of Chris Webber with better switchable defense.

Josh Hart: The stud role player that could be a 16/6/3 guy.

Thomas Bryant: Current Brook Lopez with ++ Motor and + Above the Rim ability
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MJST · Retired Number Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26386

02 Chris Webber is a pretty darn great upside, as is Jason Kidd with bettwe switchable D and Ingram's.

Amazingly the moment you mentioned Webber I started thinking what Lonzo's upside would be if he could shoot like Mike Bibby (45% from the field 40% from three)
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Endless3D · Starting Rotation Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Posts: 794

This is the absolute ceiling comparisons so taking them at face value will seem stupid unrealistic but in a dream world:

Lonzo Ball- Jason Kidd/Deron Williams (before he turned to (bleep)) combo

Brandon Ingram- the half way point between a Grant Hill/Tracy McGrady combo

Kyle Kuzma- Power Forward Klay Thompson

Josh Hart- a version of Danny Green that’s not a system player