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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Endless3D wrote: | I’m still surprised at how no one else thinks the most optimistic ceiling for Ingram being Tayshaun Prince with better passing is absurd.
Sometimes I think people are watching a different Ingram then me. Is it because he’s not that athletic or is it because he plays a slower pace then the rest of the guys on our team? |
Superficially, Ingram already outscored and outassisted Prince in his best year and did it 4 years earlier by age. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: |
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JUST-MING wrote: | The issue I have with projections like this is all of those guys are opportunistic scorers. Lonzo showed take over in college, but at this level, hitting four or five threes in a row only builds momentum rather than put the other team away. I’d like to believe in Brandon, but his take over seems forced as if playing a role of someone else. Kyle has the most natural scoring ability of all the young guys, but he’s more of a “second option” 18 point scorer rather than a “first option” 25 point scorer. Josh and Julius will always be exceptional rebounders, which is important for the team defensive identity going forward. Thomas just has this incredible work ethic. I have no idea what he will look like in after another summer in the gym. He went from moving as if his feet were stapled to the floor in college to finishing fast breaks for a league leader in pace and the three point shot. They are excellent complimentary players, to surround a star player, which is unfortunate considering all of the lottery picks this teams had over the last four seasons and this seasons lottery pick owed to Philadelphia.
I think they could look something like the 2002 New Jersey Nets, i.e. a 50 win team without a first option scorer. |
Precisely why I'm very optimistic about this roster.
But also, Curry, Klay, Westbrook, Harden, Mitchell, Antetokounmpo... weren't necessarily seen as 1st option types out of their respective drafts either. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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JBizzlethethird Starting Rotation
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 553
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Ball: JKidd, mix of older version's shooting and younger version's playmaking, top 5
BI: Kawhi with worse defense, better shooting, top 8
Kuz: Rashard Lewis with better finishing, top 25
Randle: Reverse Dray, top 35
Hart: Wesley Matthews, top 65
Bryant: Bigger Channing Frye, top 160
Zu: Big Z, top 120 _________________ (Deal 2 firsts to off-load Deng)
1. Sign PG, Lebron, JR.
(Keep firsts)
2. Sign PG, JR, Picks (Brook, IT, Shooter 1 yr deals)
3. Sign JR, Picks and 1 yr deals and run it back. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | trablos wrote: | Well damn, with comparisons like these who needs cap space |
What do you think the chances of 1 of these guys actually hitting that kind of optimistic upside? |
Just 1? Quite high actually. I think they are realistic comparisons, even if the chance that they all hit those comps are quite low. Which is why I'm more focused on our team gelling into a cohesive unit than any one players superstar potential. It's always tough to guess a players outcome, but I'm highest on Kuz since I place more significance on the intangibles of young guys than their current skill set. |
Yep. Just one. Because, if said player reaches that kind out outcome, you've got a franchise player to build around. Just because I think the chances are slim that Hart becomes a 24/5/5 guy doesn't mean he can't do it. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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manlisten Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 3169
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I think Kuz has ridiculous upside. I was somewhat skeptical on him all season, thinking he was just on some extended hot streak. When he finally crashed I said ok..now we'll see the real Kuz. He bounced back strong and I'm sold now. He gets insanely hot like Klay or even Clarkson would at times but he can potentially be more consistent than either of them.
He's really a unique type of player. His impact and scoring are Harden-like but his game is decidedly different from that. But I do feel he has that type of talent to be at or near Harden's impact. _________________ It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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splashmtn Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016 Posts: 3961
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:36 am Post subject: |
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trablos wrote: | Well damn, with comparisons like these who needs cap space | all jokes aside there is some truth to what you're saying.
We are sitting kinda pretty right now if you ask me. I'm not worried about this summer or next summers FA's. if we get em...great, if not....great. thats how confident I am in the youth movement we have on hand right now. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | not really understanding the point in talking about the absolute most optimistic outcome for 20 and 21 year old guys......as expected, most of these lists are just short of "grow wings and fly"! Expected or likely outcome seems more relevant. |
I would argue that expected and likely are optimistic. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LakersRGolden Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002 Posts: 7910 Location: Lake Forest
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Zo - Jkid
BI - PG13 + more assists
Kuz - JR smith
Randle - Green
Hart - Tony Allen |
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Wilkes52 Star Player
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 2415 Location: Far from home
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:46 am Post subject: |
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LakerSanity wrote: | Lonzo Ball: Jason Kidd with a jumpshot; top 5-10 player in the league and MVP candidate.
Brandon Ingram: A slightly better scoring, slightly better assisting and slightly worse defending Kawhi Leonard; top 5-10 player in the league and MVP candidate.
Kyle Kuzma: Glenn Robinson or a healthy Dani Gallinari who meets his potential; a 20+/7/3 guy with average defense who goes to 2-5 all star games; top 30-50 player in the league.
Julius Randle: A better scoring Draymond Green or better defending Blake Griffin, who goes to 2-3 all star games; top 40-60 player in the league.
Josh Hart: A better scoring Wes Matthews or Raja Ball; starting SG; top 80-120 player in the league.
Thomas Bryant: Sam Perkins. Role player off the bench. |
Well, those are certainly extremely optimistic ceilings for each guy.
I see Lonzo's potential ceiling as a poorer Jason Kidd in all respects except open court passing. Kidd's handle was solid, the basis of everything he did. Zo's handle and core strength have got to improve enormously if he is to work on the ball as often and as well as is expected of him. Zo's quickness has to improve if he's to get that jumper of his off, not sure he's got the ability. Incredible court vision and imagination, but physical gifts lacking and continual injury pattern for two years now is too worrisome to project to franchise star.
I see Brandon Ingram's ceiling built right at Paul George 2.0 .
Kyle Kuzma reminds me of the young Jerry Lucas, a clever big forward who does everything well and smartly enough to compensate for average foot speed. Fulfill that destiny, young man.
I see Julius Randle stuck forever in a Willie Naulls quandary, a too-small center who can't shoot outside because of the way he holds the ball.
Josh Hart could rise to become Arron Afflalo if he maximizes everything he has.
Thomas Bryant could become a Kendrick Perkins but probably won't be. _________________ “These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar |
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BynumForThree Star Player
Joined: 27 Feb 2016 Posts: 1254
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Endless3D wrote: | BynumForThree wrote: |
Ingram: 24/6/3. This is saying a lot considering 24 PPG scorers do not grow on trees. Again, entirely dependent on his ability to shoot. Defense needs to improve but he has the tools to be a good team defender/help defender.
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BI averaged 3.9 assists for the year and we’ll over 4.5 in 2018. It makes sense to see it going down with his increased scoring but has any impactful player (Sf specifically) peaked in apg at age 20?
Most small forwards outside of Lebron all had rising assist numbers even with their rising ppg totals. I don’t think Ingram takes a step back in that regard. |
That would be a lot of usage for a player playing in a space-and-pace system. I was reluctant to have Lonzo average 11 assists in my scenario since that would be some heavy usage.
Although I guess I'd bump it up to 5-6 assists for Ingram. _________________ If Brandon Knight were to come out, I would take him number 1 in the draft. - Magic Johnson Mar 27, 2011
For all of you out there questioning Jimmer Fredette of BYU, he is the real deal. - Magic Johnson Mar 20, 2011 |
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LakerDynasty6.0 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jan 2009 Posts: 4650
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: |
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All of them (not just some of them): 2019 NBA Champions with the LA Lakers! _________________ Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
------
....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | not really understanding the point in talking about the absolute most optimistic outcome for 20 and 21 year old guys......as expected, most of these lists are just short of "grow wings and fly"! Expected or likely outcome seems more relevant. |
I would argue that expected and likely are optimistic. |
I'd even argue that Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart played WAY above their expectations for their past season, just short of growing wings and flying. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Sina Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015 Posts: 1793
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Lo: Magic+Rando, run offense like magic, defend and score like Rando
Ingram: AK to KD, AK with KD's potential
Kuzma: a versatile scoring version, not sharp shooting version, Rashard Lewis
Randle: Zach Randolph+Odom: mini Zach with Odom's ball handling and mobility
Hart: Joe Dumars
Mini Magic + junior Joe Dumars + junior KD + versatile Lewis + mini Zach =???
Talents are here. Development are key. Like how Randle and Kuzma grow so far. They all need to be more polished.
Key areas to improve:
LO: 3s
Hart: defense
Ingram: scoring
Kuzma: Defense
Randle: 3s |
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Super Mega Team Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2008 Posts: 3877
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo Ball: Modern day Jason Kidd. Better J.
Brandon Ingram: Tayshaun Prince/Pg13 hybrid
Kyle Kuzma: Tall Klay, Boris Diaw like playmaking. If Boris was skinny.
Julius Randle: Amare but with less explosiveness but with defense. Glue guy. Leader.
Josh Hart: Roleplayer version of GP but with a modern day jumpshot.
Thomas Bryant: Healthy Bynum with a better jump shot. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:27 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo Ball: Jason Kidd type player, with NO J
Brandon Ingram: Tayshaun Prince/Pg13 hybrid, nice player to have
Kyle Kuzma: Klay, with Diaw like playmaking. Kuz could be really special !!
Julius Randle: Green type player, glue guy, Leader.
Josh Hart: Role-player
Thomas Bryant: TBD, he's not ready just yet _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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Annihilator Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001 Posts: 4035
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | not really understanding the point in talking about the absolute most optimistic outcome for 20 and 21 year old guys......as expected, most of these lists are just short of "grow wings and fly"! Expected or likely outcome seems more relevant. |
I would argue that expected and likely are optimistic. |
I'd even argue that Ingram, Kuzma, and Hart played WAY above their expectations for their past season, just short of growing wings and flying. |
During the off-season LG becomes LakersSyfy. Last summer, though, I think people would have been very happy with the way that Kuz, Hart, BI and Randle played/improved this past year. Another year of growth for those four and Ball improves would be fabulous.
Now if the Lakers can just pull off another Kuzma-type miracle in this next draft at the center position (or if Zubac or Bryant suddenly become NBA-star quality) that would almost be as miraculous as growing wings and flying. _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
--Anonymous |
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CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4790
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Lonzo: Kidd with a jumpshot
Ingram: Pippen 2.0
Randle : Odom with Zbo inside game
Kuzma : Paul Piece
Hart: Jimmy Butler
TBryant: Rasheed Wallace |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I wonder what everyone's projections for T-Bryant are?
Certainly not his actual NBA minutes/play... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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lakersboy Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Zubac should have remained in Europe to develop his game but since he didn't, we got to see how raw he is. He got a taste of the real life and what it's going to take to be part of that so he needs to come back stronger, more aggressive, and better prepared so he can contribute regularly and not just fill space. He needs to use the skills he's shown in order to be more of a low post threat. I expect man strength and growth on the learning curve. He hasn't shown enough to be valuable to anyone else yet, but I believe he can get better. If he does, he's a cheap contact.
I'm imagining if he could develop finishing ability like Julius in terms of accuracy near the rim. |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: |
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What I like most about BI is his self awareness. You noticed he fixed a lot of his short coming from his rookie season, and seems to improve month by month. He's got your ideal body for a starting forward in today's game and can be a lethal defender once he bulks up. I would not sleep on sleepy eyes |
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