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splashmtn
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 Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Cap-ologist is it possible to bring the entire band back and still ADD PG13? |
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Cap-ologist is it possible to bring the entire band back and still ADD PG13?
Could we convince Ju, Lopez, and KCP to take deals and if so how low would the low balling have to be for each of these guys? |
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cyborgspider
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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Listen to Hollywood Hoops by Eric Pincus. He answers this on a weekly level.
The Lakers will have 48m in cap space. PG takes up 30m. You have 18m to offer Lopez and KCP, and then go over that cap to re-sign Randle.
Maybe KCP takes the 18m, Brook takes the room exception, and Randle gets whatever.
But yeah, there are multiple threads that discuss this and break it down. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| cyborgspider wrote: | Listen to Hollywood Hoops by Eric Pincus. He answers this on a weekly level.
The Lakers will have 48m in cap space. PG takes up 30m. You have 18m to offer Lopez and KCP, and then go over that cap to re-sign Randle.
Maybe KCP takes the 18m, Brook takes the room exception, and Randle gets whatever.
But yeah, there are multiple threads that discuss this and break it down. |
And also IT? I forgot about his name in the thread but I was thinking of him when i said bring the band back together? or is that just a bit too much $$$. and I didnt see the threads with this scenario floating around along with pg. i keep seeing the usual kcp is gone, brook is probably gone and lets see what we can do with ju and it.
either way thanks for the heads up cs |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| You would need to assume that all of those guys would take one year deals, or else that we are giving up on future moves. It is theoretically possible, but that’s about it. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Where is Deng and his contract in this scenario? |
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LakerSanity
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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No, unless we trade Deng. the Lakers suddenly dont care about 2019 free agency and IT, KCP and Lopez are each willing to split $36 million
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chekmatex4
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Assuming Salary cap will be $101m, Lakers currently have $39m in contracts if they waive cap holds on everyone. That leaves $61m to spend in free agency and Lakers need to lock up $30m for PG13. If they want to keep Randle's Bird Rights to sign him over the cap amount, it locks up another $12m.
That will leave $19m to sign Brook Lopez, Isaiah Thomas, and KCP. Or sign two of them for the $19m and use the mid-level exception to sign the 3rd (I think Lakers get the mid-level this year but not sure). |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Feeling it will be a mistake signing PG13 for $30 million when he improves your team by a couple of games. Or simply lateral if you lose both KCP and Brook.
I know chances are we're not the Warriors, but they got good with their own players on rookie deals, then re-signed. Then they had the money to go after a real game changer.
If we don't get Lebron. We'll be battling for 7-10 again next year with KCP/Brook or with PG13. Either scenario, you're the same caliber team, but only one scenario will cost you $30 per for 4/5 years?
PG13 is not a game changer. |
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LakersChamps04
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | Feeling it will be a mistake signing PG13 for $30 million when he improves your team by a couple of games. Or simply lateral if you lose both KCP and Brook.
I know chances are we're not the Warriors, but they got good with their own players on rookie deals, then re-signed. Then they had the money to go after a real game changer.
If we don't get Lebron. We'll be battling for 7-10 again next year with KCP/Brook or with PG13. Either scenario, you're the same caliber team, but only one scenario will cost you $30 per for 4/5 years?
PG13 is not a game changer. |
I agree, i wouldn't give the max to PG and i would also try my hardest to get LeBron too. And getting them both will enable you to get both of them to take a couple million discount so that we can field a competitive team. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 5:50 am Post subject: |
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No. Because if you get Paul George. There's no reason to re-sign KCP unless it was to a bargain for an agreed upon bench role.
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: |
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I'd be allright if they kept Jules, Brook, while adding PG. I have no attachment one way or another toward KCP.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| LakersChamps04 wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | Feeling it will be a mistake signing PG13 for $30 million when he improves your team by a couple of games. Or simply lateral if you lose both KCP and Brook.
I know chances are we're not the Warriors, but they got good with their own players on rookie deals, then re-signed. Then they had the money to go after a real game changer.
If we don't get Lebron. We'll be battling for 7-10 again next year with KCP/Brook or with PG13. Either scenario, you're the same caliber team, but only one scenario will cost you $30 per for 4/5 years?
PG13 is not a game changer. |
I agree, i wouldn't give the max to PG and i would also try my hardest to get LeBron too. And getting them both will enable you to get both of them to take a couple million discount so that we can field a competitive team. |
IMO George is more of a difference maker on the roster and well worth the $30m a year then you are giving him credit.
He gives the young roster a focal point. The marquee vet leader that the team can turn to at the end of games or in tough games. How many games did the Lakers lose in the final mins this past season?
George's presence allows the young players to play to their strengths and develop. He brings consistent stats on both ends of the floor while not being a prima donna that needs everything to revolve around him.
If the Lakers sign only George and can bring back a similar roster they can make a significant jump into playoff discussion. Very similar to the Wolves adding Butler and suddenly all the young players looked much better.
Wolves went from 31 to 47 wins. Add George and good roster moves and can the Lakers go from 35 to 45 or 50 wins? Going from out of the playoffs to hosting in the first round? And more importantly still developing and improving. I'm in! |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Wolves went from 31 to 47 wins. Add George and good roster moves and can the Lakers go from 35 to 45 or 50 wins? Going from out of the playoffs to hosting in the first round? And more importantly still developing and improving. I'm in! |
The Twolves aren't a good comparison; they dramatically overhauled their roster.
In addition to Butler, they signed Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jamal Crawford, and Derrick Rose (By playoff time, apart from Wiggins and Town, their 8-man rotation averaged over 30 years old).
It would be the equivalent of us keeping Ball and Ingram; adding George; and then filling out the rest of the roster with older veterans. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Wolves went from 31 to 47 wins. Add George and good roster moves and can the Lakers go from 35 to 45 or 50 wins? Going from out of the playoffs to hosting in the first round? And more importantly still developing and improving. I'm in! |
The Twolves aren't a good comparison; they dramatically overhauled their roster.
In addition to Butler, they signed Jeff Teague, Taj Gibson, Jamal Crawford, and Derrick Rose (By playoff time, apart from Wiggins and Town, their 8-man rotation averaged over 30 years old).
It would be the equivalent of us keeping Ball and Ingram; adding George; and then filling out the rest of the roster with older veterans. |
Fair points. My comparison was based more on the focal point marquee signing.
Lakers vet presence could be re-signing Lopez, IT or other backup vet PG or SF? Also reasonable development 2nd year players Ball, Hart and Kuzma. Can Ball have as much impact in leading the team as Teague? Possibly IMO. Could also have Randle's "vet" experience as impactful (or more?) then Gibson's for the Lakers.
Being realistic a 15 game jump would be incredible with only George (or 1 max) being the main signing. Simply stating my thoughts that even a minimal swap of George in KCP's spot improves the team significantly IMO. If they add other pieces and see some improvement from the young core even better. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Where is Deng and his contract in this scenario? |
every time. that wrench is always in messing up the plans. But i guess if we dont have any takers. stretch him out. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | Feeling it will be a mistake signing PG13 for $30 million when he improves your team by a couple of games. Or simply lateral if you lose both KCP and Brook.
I know chances are we're not the Warriors, but they got good with their own players on rookie deals, then re-signed. Then they had the money to go after a real game changer.
If we don't get Lebron. We'll be battling for 7-10 again next year with KCP/Brook or with PG13. Either scenario, you're the same caliber team, but only one scenario will cost you $30 per for 4/5 years?
PG13 is not a game changer. |
see this is kinda where I'm heading. dont tell pg i said it. lol. we still want him. but dang it. do we really have to pay this dude 30 mil? Come on PG aint you Tired of never seeing what the finals look like? We need Pg to take a haircut.
Can I convince pg13 to come to L.A. for 23 million? and basically layout the plan to him without naming all of the names.
because like you said. Why get pg 13, and no longer have a real Center that can stretch the floor. Which would easily have us fighting for the same playoff spots. and not much else. we can get to the 7 to 8th seed right now if you take away the extra Zo injuries. thats without PG13. with pg13, and no brooke and no kcp and even with a healthy ball. I'm not seeing 50+ wins.
We need guys to take that haircut.
I think we might be able to talk brooke into it. he's been around for a while on losing franchises. He might just be sick and tired of losing. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | I'd be allright if they kept Jules, Brook, while adding PG. I have no attachment one way or another toward KCP. |
EB, you dont like that KCP defense? his athleticism and ability to hit the 3 and get hot?
You have to remember EB. KCP is at times inconsistent due to age not his game. he's still really young too. i know we didnt draft him but that doesnt take away how young he is. you also have to remember, if we add in the fact that he had much better structure with the lakers coaching staff vs detroits. and then factor in that in and out of jail stint when he was super inconsistent. we need to take that out of the equation and then you would see he's pretty darn good at 25 years old. I have a feeling he's going to get better and more consistent as he ages in a good environment. |
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ElginBaylor
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | I'd be allright if they kept Jules, Brook, while adding PG. I have no attachment one way or another toward KCP. |
EB, you dont like that KCP defense? his athleticism and ability to hit the 3 and get hot?
You have to remember EB. KCP is at times inconsistent due to age not his game. he's still really young too. i know we didnt draft him but that doesnt take away how young he is. you also have to remember, if we add in the fact that he had much better structure with the lakers coaching staff vs detroits. and then factor in that in and out of jail stint when he was super inconsistent. we need to take that out of the equation and then you would see he's pretty darn good at 25 years old. I have a feeling he's going to get better and more consistent as he ages in a good environment. |
You could be right and I'd have no problem if he did stick around. I'm just thinking that if we have to sacrifice someone from last year's squad I'd rather it be KCP than Jules. Then there's Brook. True centers with an outside shot are hard to come by these days. Actually I'm really thankful I don't have to make these decisions.
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markjay
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:18 am Post subject: |
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Please excuse me, but I just need to vent. (Even though it has been said a million times before, I just gotta do it!!)
Imagine what great shape we would be in right now if Buss and Mitch had signed Deng to only a 2-year contract instead of a 4-year contract. Or even a 3-year contract with a 4th year team option. If Deng only had one more year left of his contract, I'm sure we could stomach what we would have to give up to dump him.
We are so lucky that we got out of the Mozgov contract fairly painlessly. Unfortunately, unless Magic and Pelinka have some tricks up their sleeves, it looks like the Deng contract is much more painful.
UGGGHHHHHH!!!!! |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Deng Traded...........Deng Stretched..........Deng Stretched.........Deng on Roster
KCP on Roster..........KCP on Roster..........KCP Renounced........KCP Renounced
$30,300,000..........$30,300,000.................$30,300,000......... $30,300,000.....Paul George
$12,447,727..........$12,447,727..................$12,447,727........ $12,447,727.....Randle
...$7,461,960...........$7,461,960...................$7,461,960.......... $7,461,960......Ball
...$5,757,120...........$5,757,120...................$5,757,120.......... $5,757,120......Ingram
...$1,689,84.............$1,689,840...................$1,689,840.......... $1,689,840......Kuzma
...$1,655,160...........$1,655,160...................$1,655,160.......... $1,655,160......Hart
...$1,500,000............$1,500,000...................$1,500,000......... $1,500,000......2018 First
.................$0..........................$0.................................$0.........................$0......Lopez
.................$0..........................$0.................................$0.........................$0......IT
.................$0..........................$0........................XXXXXXX..............XXXXXXX.......KCP
......XXXXXXX.............$7,362,000....................$7,362,000........ $18,000,000.....Deng
.....$831,311.................$831,311......................$831,311............. $831,311.....Min Salary
.....$831,311.................$831,311......................$831,311............. $831,311.....Min Salary
......XXXXXXX.................XXXXXXX.......................$831,311............. XXXXXXX......Min Salary
____________________________________________________________________________
$62,474,429.............$69,836,429.................$70,667,740........ $80,474,429
________________
*Wish that there was still some HTML formatting ability left in phpBB. |
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dubaholic1
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Deng to Miami for Whiteside.
Help us out Riles, sheeeeeit.
PG is not a max guy., never was and never will be, he's trevor ariza with a 10ppg better average and chokes in big games.
I want Booker, Levine and Whiteside. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | No. Because if you get Paul George. There's no reason to re-sign KCP unless it was to a bargain for an agreed upon bench role. |
Thats exactly what i was talking about. KCP off the bench along with IT, josh hart, and kuzma.
Remember i'm saying all we get is pg13. no other big time signings.
Look at this team as a whole not individual parts.
starters:
PG-Zo (get those ft's and 3's together bro)
SG- PG13(young vet star)
SF- BI
PF-Julius Randle (Bully ball)
C- Lopez
Lets take a look at their weaknesses first.
Zo-can't score consistently
sg-he's very very good but not great all the time.
sf-still can't consistently knockdown 3's and FT's
PF-a little turnover prone and can't shoot 3's.
C- can't rebound
Strengths:
Zo- excellent passer/floor general, excellent defender(team and on the ball), excellent rebounder.
sg-very good at scoring(shooting 3's, mid range, and going to the rack to get fouled and can make his ft's). good rebounder for his position, excellent defender, is a pretty good passer
SF-Can do everything but shoot. very good passer, very good on ball defender/man defender. can guard multiple positions due to his height.
pf-seems to be able to push anyone around in the nba which will get them into foul trouble early. He's a pretty good rebounder
C- very good post game on the block, good shot blocker, and pretty decent shooter from 3 for a center. will be able to punish and over power MOST centers in the nba. while taking the better defensive centers out of the paint with his ability to hit 3's.
--BENCH
pg- I.T. : instant high level offense(if zo's shot aint hitting, IT can run point at the end of a game)
sg-KCP (if pg goes down with an injury and has to miss 10 games. KCP is a nice fill in player where you wont lose so much on offense or defense/athleticism/rebounding for the position. the tempo is still high with him as a starter if need be. he could also be apart of a lock down lineup even if Zo misses games and we play BI at the starting PG spot. kcp at 2, pg13 at 3, randle at 4 or 5. But off the bench he's an excellent fit for a championship team. because he's better than pretty much every other teams bench sg. and if push comes to shove and someone wants to give us Kawhi.. we can use KCP as a young solid trade asset.
SF-Josh Hart- fisher 2.o in a bigger body. perfect for coming off the bench giving 110%. great rebounding sf/sg, can hit the 3, can finish at the rim. has excellent defense.
Pf-Kuzma- get on the kuz train/bus. very good scorer who could turn into a great scorer. isnt nearly as bad as people thought he was on defense. Kuz will be like kcp, better than any other teams backup PF by a mile.
C-Thomas bryant/Zubac - if T.bryant can get his and keep his head in the game and take zubac's spot. with the ability to hit the 3 ball. would again be yet another back player that is better than pretty much any other backup center in the nba. he helps keep the floor spread so we play the same way we play with the starters. and if lopez goes down and they have randle starting at the 5 spot. Tbryant can play more and play some more mins at the center spot with the starters since he will be doing exactly what brook does with stretching the floor.
^^^To me. that team is good enough to be a 3 seed in the western conference. and depending on how good the young guys become (zo, bi, josh, kuz, kcp, thomas bryant) no telling how good of a team we could have with just the addition of pg13 and putting the guys back together again from last season.
That to me looks like a top 10 starting 5 in the nba, while also being a #1 bench by a mile. |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | Deng Traded...........Deng Stretched..........Deng Stretched.........Deng on Roster
KCP on Roster..........KCP on Roster..........KCP Renounced........KCP Renounced
$30,300,000..........$30,300,000.................$30,300,000......... $30,300,000.....Paul George
$12,447,727..........$12,447,727..................$12,447,727........ $12,447,727.....Randle
...$7,461,960...........$7,461,960...................$7,461,960.......... $7,461,960......Ball
...$5,757,120...........$5,757,120...................$5,757,120.......... $5,757,120......Ingram
...$1,689,84.............$1,689,840...................$1,689,840.......... $1,689,840......Kuzma
...$1,655,160...........$1,655,160...................$1,655,160.......... $1,655,160......Hart
...$1,500,000............$1,500,000...................$1,500,000......... $1,500,000......2018 First
.................$0..........................$0.................................$0.........................$0......Lopez
.................$0..........................$0.................................$0.........................$0......IT
.................$0..........................$0........................XXXXXXX..............XXXXXXX.......KCP
......XXXXXXX.............$7,362,000....................$7,362,000........ $18,000,000.....Deng
.....$831,311.................$831,311......................$831,311............. $831,311.....Min Salary
.....$831,311.................$831,311......................$831,311............. $831,311.....Min Salary
......XXXXXXX.................XXXXXXX.......................$831,311............. XXXXXXX......Min Salary
____________________________________________________________________________
$62,474,429.............$69,836,429.................$70,667,740........ $80,474,429
________________
*Wish that there was still some HTML formatting ability left in phpBB. |
Thanks for this |
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splashmtn
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Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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| ElginBaylor wrote: | | splashmtn wrote: | | ElginBaylor wrote: | | I'd be allright if they kept Jules, Brook, while adding PG. I have no attachment one way or another toward KCP. |
EB, you dont like that KCP defense? his athleticism and ability to hit the 3 and get hot?
You have to remember EB. KCP is at times inconsistent due to age not his game. he's still really young too. i know we didnt draft him but that doesnt take away how young he is. you also have to remember, if we add in the fact that he had much better structure with the lakers coaching staff vs detroits. and then factor in that in and out of jail stint when he was super inconsistent. we need to take that out of the equation and then you would see he's pretty darn good at 25 years old. I have a feeling he's going to get better and more consistent as he ages in a good environment. |
You could be right and I'd have no problem if he did stick around. I'm just thinking that if we have to sacrifice someone from last year's squad I'd rather it be KCP than Jules. Then there's Brook. True centers with an outside shot are hard to come by these days. Actually I'm really thankful I don't have to make these decisions. |
now agree with you on that. if its between jules and kcp. sorry kcp. I'm taking jules to the prom. lol.
as for the real lopez brother. lol. I dont want to just let brook walk like some others have said. a real life center with serious post game, and ability to get to the ft line, while also being a willing passer, and can hit the 3 or at least threaten to hit it to keep his man somewhat honest. thats a valuable asset to have. he can bang with the big boys when they come to town, he could over power some teams trying to play small ball that are not that good at it.
lopez cooking in a game by himself has shown to be enough to keep us in the game while the rest of our team bricks. imagine if he had pg13 as one more bucket to count on going in. we would've wont those lopez break out games that we lost due to inexperience/youth and not having that serious top tier scorer |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | Feeling it will be a mistake signing PG13 for $30 million when he improves your team by a couple of games. Or simply lateral if you lose both KCP and Brook.
I know chances are we're not the Warriors, but they got good with their own players on rookie deals, then re-signed. Then they had the money to go after a real game changer.
If we don't get Lebron. We'll be battling for 7-10 again next year with KCP/Brook or with PG13. Either scenario, you're the same caliber team, but only one scenario will cost you $30 per for 4/5 years?
PG13 is not a game changer. |
see this is kinda where I'm heading. dont tell pg i said it. lol. we still want him. but dang it. do we really have to pay this dude 30 mil? Come on PG aint you Tired of never seeing what the finals look like? We need Pg to take a haircut.
Can I convince pg13 to come to L.A. for 23 million? and basically layout the plan to him without naming all of the names.
because like you said. Why get pg 13, and no longer have a real Center that can stretch the floor. Which would easily have us fighting for the same playoff spots. and not much else. we can get to the 7 to 8th seed right now if you take away the extra Zo injuries. thats without PG13. with pg13, and no brooke and no kcp and even with a healthy ball. I'm not seeing 50+ wins.
We need guys to take that haircut.
I think we might be able to talk brooke into it. he's been around for a while on losing franchises. He might just be sick and tired of losing. |
I don't see George taking less than the full max.
I don't see KCP coming back here to be a bench player.
As far as everyone else, it's going to depend on how the market shakes out for them. The big challenge would be to get guys to take lower salaries and one year deals to preserve cap space for next year, but I don't see why most of them would do that if other teams are offering the same amount of money and a player option for the second year. |
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