Barkley: Why are people moving Lebron past Kobe?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Assuming that those stats are real (there are a lot of fake stats out on places like Reddit, so you never know), what they tell me is that neither of them were impressive in "clutch" situations (as the poster defines them), but that Lebron was more unimpressive than Kobe. That's generally consistent with what I would have expected. The idea that Kobe was magically clutch in big games has been debunked before. However, the idea that Lebron has been less than stellar at the end of big games is fairly well documented.





You and Activeverb are ridiculous. Truly unbelievable. Borderline trollish


So basically, you have nothing to add to the discussion except insults, emoticons, and (ironically) calling other people trolls. Okay.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Assuming that those stats are real (there are a lot of fake stats out on places like Reddit, so you never know), what they tell me is that neither of them were impressive in "clutch" situations (as the poster defines them), but that Lebron was more unimpressive than Kobe. That's generally consistent with what I would have expected. The idea that Kobe was magically clutch in big games has been debunked before. However, the idea that Lebron has been less than stellar at the end of big games is fairly well documented.





You and Activeverb are ridiculous. Truly unbelievable. Borderline trollish


So basically, you have nothing to add to the discussion except insults, emoticons, and (ironically) calling other people trolls. Okay.


Sorry but these maneuvers arent going to work on me. You're a very good disguised Kobe troll. Everyone sees through your guys' agenda. I've already had other posts in this thread that adds to the debate. What you are doing is constantly moving goal posts and out right denying evidence to justify your Kobe hate.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:43 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
george w kush wrote:


BTW I think it's hilarious people using Lebron leaving the Cavs the first time to go play with Wade is a bad thing. As if playing with Mo Williams as your second option was a better alternative? May I remind people Kobe requested a trade to the Bulls for the same reason because he felt management wasn't putting the right teammates around him. The Lakers lucked out in getting Gasol and drafting Bynum. Without these 2 guys, the team was a borderline playoff team and Kobe might have retired as a Bull instead of a Laker.



For some reason, a lot of fans think it's OK for a player to be lucky, but not smart. It's OK for Magic to be drafted onto a team that has Kareem and Wilkes; or for Bird to be drafted onto a team that surrounds him with Hall of Famers. But it's not OK for Durant or Lebron to use free agency to surround themselves with a comparable amount of talent.

Some of this is simply that fans tend to identify with owners, and they like the notion that players are as "loyal" to their teams as fans are, though I think most fans are accepting that's always been a fantasy Superstar movement is becoming so common that people will quickly stop thinking this is unusual or unfair, if they haven't already.

My personal view is that people will act in their own self-interest. If players stay with their current team, the only reason is it's good for them. If they leave, it's for the same reason. I don't think players really care what jersey they wear. There isn't anything ethical or moral about a player staying with or leaving his current team.


Agreed. Its the same thing with superteams. We’ll go to extreme lengths to argue why super teams that win rings dont count when we aren’t in position to produce one. But the moment we can, all those principals go out the window.

It’s not a huge deal, if people wouldnt pretend they are just being principaled. Same thing here. It’s having better player discussions under the guise of it being an objective discussion.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.

Oscar shouldnt get more extra than others, he had kareem. Does kobe get extra, he had shaq? Hakeem had plenty of help AND jordan-less league. im talking championship years mostly. any goat level player has fortunate circumstances and teammates. otherwise theyd end up like pistol pete. doesnt mean much as an individual analysis. i would argue lebron should have points taken away for individually and personally being responsible for jumping ship and joining superteams, as well as durant if he is considered in the argument. extra points should be given to those like stockton malone, wilt, etc. who were goat level without the teams or rings.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.


I think it was in response to:
Quote:
(he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever)


I think you have to take into consideration the different strength of the conference to claim LeBron made several finals with weak supporting cast as part of the argument he's better than Kobe
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

We went through the East vs. West issue a few years ago. I want to say that this was around 2007. If I recall correctly, on average the difference in team record is a maximum of about two games per season. This is because the schedules of every team in the league are common with respect to 58 games. Each team plays an extra 24 games against the members of its conference. That is not 24 extra games against the best teams. It is 24 extra games against everyone. You play the Warriors just as much as the Kings, and you play the Celtics just as much as the Nets. Even in the years that the West dominated the East the most, the average expected difference in record was about +/- 2 games.

I've never seen anyone apply this to player statistics. I'm not sure how you would do that. Just because the schedule is a little weaker in the East does not mean that a particular player's stats would be higher. For example, if there are more blowouts, and more garbage time with the stars on the bench.
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governator
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:49 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
We went through the East vs. West issue a few years ago. I want to say that this was around 2007. If I recall correctly, on average the difference in team record is a maximum of about two games per season. This is because the schedules of every team in the league are common with respect to 58 games. Each team plays an extra 24 games against the members of its conference. That is not 24 extra games against the best teams. It is 24 extra games against everyone. You play the Warriors just as much as the Kings, and you play the Celtics just as much as the Nets. Even in the years that the West dominated the East the most, the average expected difference in record was about +/- 2 games.

I've never seen anyone apply this to player statistics. I'm not sure how you would do that. Just because the schedule is a little weaker in the East does not mean that a particular player's stats would be higher. For example, if there are more blowouts, and more garbage time with the stars on the bench.


I was curious if anybody has the statistic to see if there would be any difference in probability of LeBron taking a team to the finals coming out of the east vs west (I was replying to a post about LeBron taking weak teams to the finals)
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.


I think it was in response to:
Quote:
(he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever)


I think you have to take into consideration the different strength of the conference to claim LeBron made several finals with weak supporting cast as part of the argument he's better than Kobe


The stats are based on how players do against the league as a whole, not just against their own conference.

As Hunter point out, even if a team plays more games within its own conference, its arguable (or maybe unknowable) if that affects the stats.

I am not arguing that anyone should use it in their own analysis. Like I said, teammates aren't something I factor in because I can't think of a way to do it. But I do find this type of statistical analysis more interesting than the eye-of-the-beholder stuff where everyone declares "My guy is better than the other guy because I think he played with weaker teammates."
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.


I think it was in response to:
Quote:
(he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever)


I think you have to take into consideration the different strength of the conference to claim LeBron made several finals with weak supporting cast as part of the argument he's better than Kobe


This analysis is based on how players do against the league as a whole, not just against their own conference.

As Hunter point out, even if a team plays more games within its own conference, its arguable (or maybe unknowable) if that affects stats.

I am not arguing that anyone should use it in their own analysis. Like I said, teammates aren't something I factor in because I can't think of a way to do it. But I do find this type of statistical analysis more interesting than the eye-of-the-beholder stuff where everyone declares "My guy is better than the other guy because I think he played with weaker teammates."


It's not about eye to eye beholder stuff. This is responding to your claim:
activeverb wrote:

Since I know some of you are super-duper interested in Lebron, you'll find stuff here to both delight you (his 2011 loss to Miami was with the 4th best supporting cast for a finals loser) and to irritate you (he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever).

So for your reading pleasure or hate reading ...

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=610&h=2028


I'm saying you have to take into account the difference conference. Would LeBron able to make it to the finals in the west with those 'weak casts'?
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.


I think it was in response to:
Quote:
(he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever)


I think you have to take into consideration the different strength of the conference to claim LeBron made several finals with weak supporting cast as part of the argument he's better than Kobe


This analysis is based on how players do against the league as a whole, not just against their own conference.

As Hunter point out, even if a team plays more games within its own conference, its arguable (or maybe unknowable) if that affects stats.

I am not arguing that anyone should use it in their own analysis. Like I said, teammates aren't something I factor in because I can't think of a way to do it. But I do find this type of statistical analysis more interesting than the eye-of-the-beholder stuff where everyone declares "My guy is better than the other guy because I think he played with weaker teammates."


It's not about eye to eye beholder stuff. This is responding to your claim:
activeverb wrote:

Since I know some of you are super-duper interested in Lebron, you'll find stuff here to both delight you (his 2011 loss to Miami was with the 4th best supporting cast for a finals loser) and to irritate you (he made several finals with some of the weakest supporting casts ever).

So for your reading pleasure or hate reading ...

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=610&h=2028


I'm saying you have to take into account the difference conference. Would LeBron able to make it to the finals in the west with those 'weak casts'?



I wasn't making any claims. I simply said Lebron made the finals with some of the weakest supporting cast ever, according to this statistical analysis. You may decide the strength of the conference makes that less of an accomplishment if you like, but it doesn't change the fact that it happened.

I doubt the Cavs would have gotten into the finals in the west those years, but odd stuff does happen, so we'll never know for sure. For that reason, I don't factor in those kind of hypotheticals myself. I only care what actually happened. Your viewpoint might vary.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Assuming that those stats are real (there are a lot of fake stats out on places like Reddit, so you never know), what they tell me is that neither of them were impressive in "clutch" situations (as the poster defines them), but that Lebron was more unimpressive than Kobe. That's generally consistent with what I would have expected. The idea that Kobe was magically clutch in big games has been debunked before. However, the idea that Lebron has been less than stellar at the end of big games is fairly well documented.





You and Activeverb are ridiculous. Truly unbelievable. Borderline trollish


So basically, you have nothing to add to the discussion except insults, emoticons, and (ironically) calling other people trolls. Okay.


Sorry but these maneuvers arent going to work on me. You're a very good disguised Kobe troll. Everyone sees through your guys' agenda. I've already had other posts in this thread that adds to the debate. What you are doing is constantly moving goal posts and out right denying evidence to justify your Kobe hate.


There are plenty of arguments to make, but yours kind resembles:



Please try to do a little bit better and post more about the idea and not the other guy
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Lebron has to dominate the paint to be effective. Lebron turns star big men into spot up shooters. See Bosh and Love.
Shaq and Pau didn't have to clear out of the paint and be lesser versions of themselves for Kobe to be championship level effective.
Also Lebron only won chips with a safety-net go to wing scorer. Be it Wade or Kyrie.
Lebron needed big 3s to win chips and Kobe didn't. Kobe was fine with just 1 other all star.

But I'm comfortable saying Lebron is the superior regular season player. Just like MDA is a better regular season coach than almost anyone.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Lebron has to dominate the paint to be effective. Lebron turns star big men into spot up shooters. See Bosh and Love.


But so what? If three stars get together, the third banana is always going to lose shots and have to adapt to the other two stars,

Love and Bosh changed their game a bit for the good of the team; they retained their all-star status, and won rings instead of being done for season in April.

And the same thing happened with the Lakers. Shaq and Kobe turned Glen Rice from an all-nba guy averaging 26 points a game into a third banana who only scored 12 points per game in the playoffs. Rice said Kobe was the most frustrating teammate he ever had, kind of similar to what Bosh said about Lebron. But that's what happens when you're a star who teams up with a superstar who's better than you
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.

Oscar shouldnt get more extra than others, he had kareem. Does kobe get extra, he had shaq? Hakeem had plenty of help AND jordan-less league. im talking championship years mostly. any goat level player has fortunate circumstances and teammates. otherwise theyd end up like pistol pete. doesnt mean much as an individual analysis. i would argue lebron should have points taken away for individually and personally being responsible for jumping ship and joining superteams, as well as durant if he is considered in the argument. extra points should be given to those like stockton malone, wilt, etc. who were goat level without the teams or rings.



Oscar had fairly weak teammates for his first 10 years. His last four, only two of which he was an all-star, he was with Kareem. But overall, I'd say he had weaker teammates for the whole of his career than Magic, Lebron, Kobe, Bird, etc.

Hakeem had pretty weak teammates for a GOAT level guy.

Wilt did have rings -- two of them. I think you are the only person I've ever heard call Stockton a GOAT-level guy.

I was never a fan of Maravich, I always felt he would rather sale a fancy pass into the stands than make a simple pass that resulted in a score. More about the show than about winning the game.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:11 am    Post subject:

I think Lebron is a better all around player. What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department. After Shaq, Kobe almost overachieved, versus Lebron getting everything he wanted except with Irving leaving him.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.


No, but I can bet you wouldn't spend as much time in that thread as you and your cronies have spent in this one or any other "Kobe is GOAT" threads.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.


No, but I can bet you wouldn't spend as much time in that thread as you and your cronies have spent in this one or any other "Kobe is GOAT" threads.


Hello Mr. Pot. Meet Mr. Kettle.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.


No, but I can bet you wouldn't spend as much time in that thread as you and your cronies have spent in this one or any other "Kobe is GOAT" threads.



Some advice: Before pushing the “post” button, consider this question: “Am I talking about the poster or am I talking about the poster’s ideas?”

One sign that a post is usually about a poster, and not about ideas, is if it uses the word “you” a lot.

Personally, I try to eliminate the word "you" from my post. I don't always succeed, but I find most posts that address people in the second-person rarely add anything to the conversation; typically, they are just venting.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:08 pm    Post subject:

Gentlemen, please cease and desist talking about each other so i don't have to do it for folks. This is a hot button issue and i understand the passion involved. be passionate, state your case, be unreasonably hyperbolic. But stop making it about the other guy's motives. His or hers are as pure as yours.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.

You know, in 2014 when Reggie Miller famously said "Michael Jordan on his worst day is ten times better than Kobe Bryant on his best day"
https://twitter.com/nbaontnt/status/545277270273708033

in the hoopla that occurred in the next few days, Charles Barkley said that Kobe had his chance to prove he's better than MJ, and fell way short.

A lot of the hotheads on LG swore up and down that Barkley was an idiot and didn't know what he was talking about.

and some of the same guys today are using Barkley's latest comment vis a vis LBJ/Kobe

interesting
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
activeverb wrote:
governator wrote:
Do you have statistics on strength of east Gs west during Kobe and LeBron’s career?


I don't have any statistics like that, though I'm sure they exist somewhere.

Personally, I think the only guys on the GOAT short list who might deserve extra points because their teammates weren't that good were Hakeem and Oscar.

As far as everyone else (MJ, Kobe, Lebron, Bird, Shaqm Magic, Russell, and Wilt), I'd say they all got dealt good hands in terms of the overall quality of teammates during their careers. That said, I can't think of a way to measure/evaluation the quality of their teammates in a way I think is particularly accurate or reasonable so it's not something I factor in when I rate these guys.

Oscar shouldnt get more extra than others, he had kareem. Does kobe get extra, he had shaq? Hakeem had plenty of help AND jordan-less league. im talking championship years mostly. any goat level player has fortunate circumstances and teammates. otherwise theyd end up like pistol pete. doesnt mean much as an individual analysis. i would argue lebron should have points taken away for individually and personally being responsible for jumping ship and joining superteams, as well as durant if he is considered in the argument. extra points should be given to those like stockton malone, wilt, etc. who were goat level without the teams or rings.
actually hakeem didnt have plenty of help that first ring. prior to dirk. i dont recall any star player that won it all but never had another star player on the team.

it was the dream and a bunch of clutch role players (kenny, cassell, horry, ellie, mad max, and otis thorpe etc.)
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject:

P.K. wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
What I think Charles is trying to say is you cant move Lebron over Kobe in the greatness department.


Searching for deeper meaning in the words of Charles Barkley is a waste of time. Besides, who really cares? If Barkley came out tomorrow and said, "Lebron has now surpassed Kobe," is there a single Kobe fan who would say, "Dang, I guess that settles it"? Of course not.

You know, in 2014 when Reggie Miller famously said "Michael Jordan on his worst day is ten times better than Kobe Bryant on his best day"
https://twitter.com/nbaontnt/status/545277270273708033

in the hoopla that occurred in the next few days, Charles Barkley said that Kobe had his chance to prove he's better than MJ, and fell way short.

A lot of the hotheads on LG swore up and down that Barkley was an idiot and didn't know what he was talking about.

and some of the same guys today are using Barkley's latest comment vis a vis LBJ/Kobe

interesting
its not interesting at all. you agree with people that say things that are correct in that moment. no matter how wrong they have been in the past on the subject.

you can scream 2+5 is 4 everyday for 10 years straight. i wont trust you on math equations. but the moment you say 1+1=2. I will grant you that as the correct answer. and i will use you as an example' like that guy said..."1+1 is...2"n because its correct.
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trablos
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:29 am    Post subject:

While were talking, I'm curious to know how Kobe would have played with a legit all star guard/wing as a running mate. He's only ever had a big as an all star teammate and got robbed of the opportunity for "basketball reasons". One of the biggest "what ifs" imo
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