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moonriver24
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 Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| where24happens wrote: | | Kobe will always have the special place in my heart, but even I have to admit Lebron has surpassed him. Lebron has an argument to be the GOAT n my opinion, if he wins another ring, I think that will become the dominant opinion in history as well. |
Eastern is still a catwalk for Lebron.
If the Cavs were in the west... they would have trouble passing by those already gone... Spurs, Jazz, blazers, and then Antony Davis et al.
Second round... if Bron and cavs survived they would either face Curry et al or The Beard et al.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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How many HOFamers has LeBron beaten in the East?
Off the top of my head:
1) Detroit Pistons - Chauncey Billups
2) Celtics - big 3
3) Pacers - Paul George
Any others? Did he ever beat Dwight Howard? Does DeMarr DeRozan count? |
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george w kush
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
Because if the end if the other team has better talent and better coaching, they will win. It is a team game after all. The Cavs are no match for whoever will be coming out of the West. Last year's finals he averaged a triple-double while scoring 34 ppg, and still lost because he's going up against Durant/Curry/Klay/Green, etc...
I actually think he has a better chance of winning against the Rockets since they are inexperianced, don't play defense and Mike Dantoni is a fool. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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How many HOFamers has LeBron beaten in the East?
Off the top of my head:
1) Detroit Pistons - Chauncey Billups
2) Celtics - big 3
3) Pacers - Paul George
Any others? Did he ever beat Dwight Howard? Does DeMarr DeRozan count? |
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CalisFinest
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Location: Upland, California
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| It's okay if Lebron has passed Kobe, it has nothing to do with us. Kobe's the one that brought LA 5 titles and that's all that matters. Their ranking all-time doesn't. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
Because if the end if the other team has better talent and better coaching, they will win. It is a team game after all. The Cavs are no match for whoever will be coming out of the West. Last year's finals he averaged a triple-double while scoring 34 ppg, and still lost because he's going up against Durant/Curry/Klay/Green, etc...
I actually think he has a better chance of winning against the Rockets since they are inexperianced, don't play defense and Mike Dantoni is a fool. |
Well, if your theory is true, then that means whenever LeBron had the better talent, he should have won. Let’s take a look:
1) 2007 - SA had the more talented team (Lost)
2) 2011 - Miami had the more talented team over Dallas (Lost)
3) 2012 - Miami had the more talented team vs OKC (Won)
4) 2013 - Miami had the more talented over SA (Won)
5) 2014 - Miami had the more talented team over an older SA team (Lost)
6) 2015 - Cleveland had the more talented team over GS - GS lost in the first rd the previous yr, and just hired a new coach. They weren’t favorites going into the season.
7) 2016 - I remember Cleveland went into the season as preseason favorites to win the title. They ended up winning (Won)
8) 2017 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
9) 2018 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
So, LeBron was preseason title favorites for probably 6 seasons. Why do I use preseason favorites? Because how you play during the regular season affects how you play in the playoffs.
For instance, after SA lost to Miami in 2011, no one made them title favorites the following yr. They were all a yr older and their last title was in 2007. Also LeBron n the Heat were in their prime. But SA played that yr on a mission n they destroyed Miami in the finals. That wasn’t cuz they had more talent. They just wanted it more. |
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
Because if the end if the other team has better talent and better coaching, they will win. It is a team game after all. The Cavs are no match for whoever will be coming out of the West. Last year's finals he averaged a triple-double while scoring 34 ppg, and still lost because he's going up against Durant/Curry/Klay/Green, etc...
I actually think he has a better chance of winning against the Rockets since they are inexperianced, don't play defense and Mike Dantoni is a fool. |
The Cavs may have been underdogs last year, but they still had a real chance of winning. Maybe if Lebron let Kyrie handle the ball more often he wouldn't have gotten tired in the 2nd half of games 2 and 3.
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't?
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george w kush
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Posts: 1169
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
Because if the end if the other team has better talent and better coaching, they will win. It is a team game after all. The Cavs are no match for whoever will be coming out of the West. Last year's finals he averaged a triple-double while scoring 34 ppg, and still lost because he's going up against Durant/Curry/Klay/Green, etc...
I actually think he has a better chance of winning against the Rockets since they are inexperianced, don't play defense and Mike Dantoni is a fool. |
Well, if your theory is true, then that means whenever LeBron had the better talent, he should have won. Let’s take a look:
1) 2007 - SA had the more talented team (Lost)
2) 2011 - Miami had the more talented team over Dallas (Lost)
3) 2012 - Miami had the more talented team vs OKC (Won)
4) 2013 - Miami had the more talented over SA (Won)
5) 2014 - Miami had the more talented team over an older SA team (Lost)
6) 2015 - Cleveland had the more talented team over GS - GS lost in the first rd the previous yr, and just hired a new coach. They weren’t favorites going into the season.
7) 2016 - I remember Cleveland went into the season as preseason favorites to win the title. They ended up winning (Won)
8) 2017 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
9) 2018 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
So, LeBron was preseason title favorites for probably 6 seasons. Why do I use preseason favorites? Because how you play during the regular season affects how you play in the playoffs.
For instance, after SA lost to Miami in 2011, no one made them title favorites the following yr. They were all a yr older and their last title was in 2007. Also LeBron n the Heat were in their prime. But SA played that yr on a mission n they destroyed Miami in the finals. That wasn’t cuz they had more talent. They just wanted it more. |
Coaching? Pop and Carlisle are far superior coaches than Spolestra and Lue. There's a reason why PJ has 11 rings as a coach, which is why I included coaching in my original statement. |
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george w kush
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. He shot 40% from the field in that series, shot 40% from the field in the 2008 finals and another 40% against the Pistons(with Shaq). Lebron, on the other hand, played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love while nearly averaging a triple double, just tied Jordan for most 40 point games in the playoffs and has the highest PPG in the finals of any NBA player in history.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious.
Last edited by george w kush on Sun May 27, 2018 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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slavavov
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Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. Lebron on the other hand played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious. |
Once we fell behind by 13 with 8 minutes and change left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe made 3 of 7 shots and 9 of 11 free throws for 15 points and a TS% of 62.5 the rest of the game. How is that not effective?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html
Plus even though Kobe shot 40-41% for the series, it's misleading because his efficiency was good in 4 out of those 7 games. That's more than half the series that he played great.
I'm also talking about crunch time, the 2nd half or the 4th quarter, when guys get tired. That's always been the question about Lebron. Will he be just as effective in crunch time as he is the rest of the game?
Theoretically at least, you can average 35 points and a triple double and still be ineffective in crunch time.
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Last edited by slavavov on Sun May 27, 2018 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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george w kush
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Joined: 05 Jun 2009
Posts: 1169
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. Lebron on the other hand played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious. |
Once we fell behind by 13 with 8 minutes and change left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe made 3 of 7 shots and 9 of 11 free throws for 15 points and a TS% of 62.5 the rest of the game. How is that not effective?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html
I'm also talking about crunch time, the 2nd half or the 4th quarter, when guys get tired. That's always been the question about Lebron. Will he be just as effective in crunch time as he is the rest of the game?
Theoretically at least, you can average 35 points and a triple double and still be ineffective in crunch time. |
So he shot 3/7(42%) and made his free throws? Wow that's mighty impressive. Maybe if Kobe had shot the ball better throughout the game, they would have won a little easier instead of it being a nailbiter? If he had put up numbers like Lebron did in last years finals, it would have been over in 6 games. He's lucky Pau and Artest played as well in that game as they did.
BTW, Lebron is averaging 34/9/9 with a TS% of 62 and a PER of 33, for this years entire playoffs. Think about that for a second.
And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you.
Last edited by george w kush on Sun May 27, 2018 11:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Outspoken
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Posts: 8450
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. Lebron on the other hand played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious. |
Once we fell behind by 13 with 8 minutes and change left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe made 3 of 7 shots and 9 of 11 free throws for 15 points and a TS% of 62.5 the rest of the game. How is that not effective?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html
I'm also talking about crunch time, the 2nd half or the 4th quarter, when guys get tired. That's always been the question about Lebron. Will he be just as effective in crunch time as he is the rest of the game?
Theoretically at least, you can average 35 points and a triple double and still be ineffective in crunch time. |
So he shot 3/7(42%) and made his free throws? Wow that's mighty impressive. Maybe if Kobe had shot the ball better throughout the game, they would have won a little easier instead of it being a nailbiter? If he had put up numbers like Lebron did in last years finals, it would have been over in 6 games. He's lucky Pau and Artest played as well in that game as they did.
And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you. |
Lucky for Kobe's 15 rebounds too, right? |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: |
The Cavs may have been underdogs last year, but they still had a real chance of winning. Maybe if Lebron let Kyrie handle the ball more often he wouldn't have gotten tired in the 2nd half of games 2 and 3. |
Oh, c'mon. Lebron averaged 34-12-10 on 56/39/65 shooting for the series.
The Cavs simply got beat by a vastly superior team that won 67 games and went through the playoffs 12-1. The Warriors were routinely blowing out teams by 20 points; the notion that letting Kyrie "handle the ball more" would have made a difference in the outcome is just silly. |
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george w kush
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. Lebron on the other hand played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious. |
Once we fell behind by 13 with 8 minutes and change left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe made 3 of 7 shots and 9 of 11 free throws for 15 points and a TS% of 62.5 the rest of the game. How is that not effective?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html
I'm also talking about crunch time, the 2nd half or the 4th quarter, when guys get tired. That's always been the question about Lebron. Will he be just as effective in crunch time as he is the rest of the game?
Theoretically at least, you can average 35 points and a triple double and still be ineffective in crunch time. |
So he shot 3/7(42%) and made his free throws? Wow that's mighty impressive. Maybe if Kobe had shot the ball better throughout the game, they would have won a little easier instead of it being a nailbiter? If he had put up numbers like Lebron did in last years finals, it would have been over in 6 games. He's lucky Pau and Artest played as well in that game as they did.
And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you. |
Lucky for Kobe's 15 rebounds too, right? |
Pretty sad that his only worthwhile stat in a game 7 @ home against Boston was how many rebounds he collected. Doesn't surprise me, there were plenty of bricks in that game on both sides. |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16142
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
Because if the end if the other team has better talent and better coaching, they will win. It is a team game after all. The Cavs are no match for whoever will be coming out of the West. Last year's finals he averaged a triple-double while scoring 34 ppg, and still lost because he's going up against Durant/Curry/Klay/Green, etc...
I actually think he has a better chance of winning against the Rockets since they are inexperianced, don't play defense and Mike Dantoni is a fool. |
Well, if your theory is true, then that means whenever LeBron had the better talent, he should have won. Let’s take a look:
1) 2007 - SA had the more talented team (Lost)
2) 2011 - Miami had the more talented team over Dallas (Lost)
3) 2012 - Miami had the more talented team vs OKC (Won)
4) 2013 - Miami had the more talented over SA (Won)
5) 2014 - Miami had the more talented team over an older SA team (Lost)
6) 2015 - Cleveland had the more talented team over GS - GS lost in the first rd the previous yr, and just hired a new coach. They weren’t favorites going into the season.
7) 2016 - I remember Cleveland went into the season as preseason favorites to win the title. They ended up winning (Won)
8) 2017 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
9) 2018 - GS were overwhelming preseason favorites
So, LeBron was preseason title favorites for probably 6 seasons. Why do I use preseason favorites? Because how you play during the regular season affects how you play in the playoffs.
For instance, after SA lost to Miami in 2011, no one made them title favorites the following yr. They were all a yr older and their last title was in 2007. Also LeBron n the Heat were in their prime. But SA played that yr on a mission n they destroyed Miami in the finals. That wasn’t cuz they had more talent. They just wanted it more. |
Coaching? Pop and Carlisle are far superior coaches than Spolestra and Lue. There's a reason why PJ has 11 rings as a coach, which is why I included coaching in my original statement. |
Shouldn’t coaching be figured into the equation already? Coming into the 2010-2011 did anyone predict that Dallas would win the title with that talent and Carlisle as coach? All of a sudden Dallas wins n now it’s because Dallas had better talent n better coaching?
Same thing in 2014. Poppovich’s last title was 2007. His core was much older. Miami was 2 time defending champions. Then SA wins it in 2014 n the narrative is - Poppovich is the better coach n SA had more talent? |
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slavavov
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Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
That's another thing i don't understand about Lebron. How come when Jordan and Kobe got tired in the playoffs they still found a way to be effective, but Lebron didn't? |
You think Kobe going 6-24 in a game 7 against Boston is him being 'effective'? If Kobe gets tired or can't make a shot, he will just keep jacking up shots. Lebron on the other hand played all 82 games this year and played all 48 games tonight with no Love.
Not sure how you can call a guy who averaged a triple-double in last years finals and averaged nearly 35 a game ineffective.
Hilarious. |
Once we fell behind by 13 with 8 minutes and change left in the 3rd quarter, Kobe made 3 of 7 shots and 9 of 11 free throws for 15 points and a TS% of 62.5 the rest of the game. How is that not effective?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/pbp/201006170LAL.html
I'm also talking about crunch time, the 2nd half or the 4th quarter, when guys get tired. That's always been the question about Lebron. Will he be just as effective in crunch time as he is the rest of the game?
Theoretically at least, you can average 35 points and a triple double and still be ineffective in crunch time. |
So he shot 3/7(42%) and made his free throws? Wow that's mighty impressive. Maybe if Kobe had shot the ball better throughout the game, they would have won a little easier instead of it being a nailbiter? If he had put up numbers like Lebron did in last years finals, it would have been over in 6 games. He's lucky Pau and Artest played as well in that game as they did.
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Yeah, a 62.5% TS% is mighty impressive for that long a stretch of Game 7 of the finals. (I know you were being sarcastic, but maybe you don't understand TS%, just like how I didn't understand or even know about that stat myself until a couple years ago). And who ever cares about what ifs about Kobe shooting the ball better when we actually did win? He shot well in 4 out of those 7 games, which meant that overall he had a good series, and his series FG% of 40-41% is misleading.
| Quote: |
And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you. |
I'm far from the only one. Here are two examples from just one prominent media commentator who has seen the NBA up close for decades and is a fan of both players:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNH5rBYwjw
In this second example, he agrees with Michael Jordan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSM1FbzJW8k
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Last edited by slavavov on Mon May 28, 2018 12:18 am; edited 2 times in total |
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slavavov
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
The Cavs may have been underdogs last year, but they still had a real chance of winning. Maybe if Lebron let Kyrie handle the ball more often he wouldn't have gotten tired in the 2nd half of games 2 and 3. |
Oh, c'mon. Lebron averaged 34-12-10 on 56/39/65 shooting for the series.
The Cavs simply got beat by a vastly superior team that won 67 games and went through the playoffs 12-1. The Warriors were routinely blowing out teams by 20 points; the notion that letting Kyrie "handle the ball more" would have made a difference in the outcome is just silly. |
In the first half of Game 2 Lebron was awesome. He was singlehandedly making it a neck and neck game. He was constantly attacking by being a one man fast break. That takes a lot of energy out of you, especially with the kind of mileage he has on him.
I thought that team was set up perfectly for Lebron to age gracefully. Kyrie became a superstar in 2016, he's a closer, and he's maybe the best ballhandler in the league. People has said the last several years that Lebron has to do too much for his team. Maybe a simple change in strategy could've made that a competitive series. Remember that last year's Cavs were also a superteam, had a strong bench and that some media members were picking them to beat GSW. They were underdogs, but not huge underdogs.
https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/1/16040138/2017-nba-playoffs-finals-predictions-cavaliers-warriors-f68e81effc
https://www.si.com/nba/2017/05/29/nba-finals-predictions-warriors-cavaliers-preview-lebron-james
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19473820/2017-nba-finals-expert-predictions-golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-finals-matchup
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george w kush
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| slavavov wrote: |
Yeah, a 62.5% TS% is mighty impressive for that long a stretch of Game 7 of the finals. (I know you were being sarcastic, but maybe you don't understand TS%, just like how I didn't understand or even know about that stat under a couple years ago). And who ever cares about what ifs about Kobe shooting the ball better when we actually did win? He shot well in 4 out of those 7 games, which meant that overall he had a good series, and his series FG% of 40-41% is misleading.
| Quote: |
And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you. |
I'm far from the only one. Here are two examples from just one prominent media commentator who has seen the NBA up close for decades and is a fan of both of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNH5rBYwjw
In this second example, he agrees with Michael Jordan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSM1FbzJW8k |
Bro Lebron is averaging 62% TS in the ENTIRE playoffs so far this year, not in one game in the 3rd period. Again you're questioning his ineffectiveness when he has the highest PPG in the finals of any player in NBA history. When you look at his career playoffs stats, no one should be questioning his ineffectiveness. And it doesn't matter what Kobe shot as long as they won the game? It does matter because if Lebron shoots that poorly, it's game over. Can you imagine if he shot 6/24 in game 6 or 7 against Boston? It's series over. He shot 56% in last years finals and averaged 35 a game and still lost for christ sakes. He doesn't have the luxury of having a poor shooting game and winning the game on this Cavs team.
And if Stephen A Smith thinks Kobe is better/more clutch that's fine. Lebron still has plenty of games like this left in him although I also believe it would be a stupid career move on his part to admit that a guy that is still playing with plenty of years left at a high level is better than a guy like Kobe who is already retired if he wants to maintain his relationship with Kobe. |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| Lebron is basically Shaq if Shaq could have bothered to keep himself in peak physical condition and really worked hard at skill development beyond post play. The physical advantages are too overwhelming and blot out almost any technical skill advantage lesser physical specimens might have. Too big, too strong, too agile, too quick, and he’s been improving his overall skills too. Crazy. (bleep) is too durable and never gets hurt, either. If he can keep it up for four or five more years, he’s got a real shot at surpassing everyone else in the all time list. |
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | slavavov wrote: |
Yeah, a 62.5% TS% is mighty impressive for that long a stretch of Game 7 of the finals. (I know you were being sarcastic, but maybe you don't understand TS%, just like how I didn't understand or even know about that stat under a couple years ago). And who ever cares about what ifs about Kobe shooting the ball better when we actually did win? He shot well in 4 out of those 7 games, which meant that overall he had a good series, and his series FG% of 40-41% is misleading.
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And no one questions Lebron's crunch time, that's just you. |
I'm far from the only one. Here are two examples from just one prominent media commentator who has seen the NBA up close for decades and is a fan of both of them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFNH5rBYwjw
In this second example, he agrees with Michael Jordan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSM1FbzJW8k |
Bro Lebron is averaging 62% TS in the ENTIRE playoffs so far this year, not in one game in the 3rd period. Again you're questioning his ineffectiveness when he has the highest PPG in the finals of any player in NBA history. When you look at his career playoffs stats, no one should be questioning his ineffectiveness.
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Again, I'm only questioning Lebron's effectiveness in crunch time. He's gotten it done this year in crunch time, but I'm disappointed at all those other years he was hot and cold when it mattered most.
| Quote: | And it doesn't matter what Kobe shot as long as they won the game? It does matter because if Lebron shoots that poorly, it's game over. Can you imagine if he shot 6/24 in game 6 or 7 against Boston? It's series over. He shot 56% in last years finals and averaged 35 a game and still lost for christ sakes. He doesn't have the luxury of having a poor shooting game and winning the game on this Cavs team.
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I don't get your logic here. When your team wins, what ifs are irrelevant. Lebron's team won today, so that would be like saying that if Lebron had less turnovers throughout the series the Cavs would've won the series in 6 games. It doesn't matter. Lebron played awesome in this series and he was efficient, so the fact he had a couple more turnovers a game doesn't lower his overall efficiency too much.
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And if Stephen A Smith thinks Kobe is better/more clutch that's fine. Lebron still has plenty of games like this left in him although I also believe it would be a stupid career move on his part to admit that a guy that is still playing with plenty of years left at a high level is better than a guy like Kobe who is already retired if he wants to maintain his relationship with Kobe. |
How would that opinion affect his relationship with Kobe? Kobe has shown Lebron nothing but love over the years, and Kobe's classy enough to not let that effect his relationship with Stephen A Smith. He's a journalist who tells it like it is and doesn't play favorites, even though his predictions are wrong every now and then.
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pjiddy
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29060
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
He wasn't drafted by a better team.
Kobe got drafted by a team with Shaq.
MJ's team drafted Pippen.
Both hall-of-fame teammates. If you were building an all-time team of 12, both are probably on it. They're not in GOAT arguments no matter what team they end up on.
Lebron's best teammate ever was Wade and he had to put himself on the team to get him.
Part of legacy is luck. You can't win a title by yourself. |
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slavavov
Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8330
Location: Santa Monica
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | chantruong wrote: |
One knock that I do have for Lebron, is why he only has three rings. You would think a guy that gifted would have more rings by now. Maybe its a function of how competitive the NBA is now. But maybe he brought this upon himself due to starting the superteam craze. |
He wasn't drafted by a better team.
Kobe got drafted by a team with Shaq.
MJ's team drafted Pippen.
Both hall-of-fame teammates. If you were building an all-time team of 12, both are probably on it. They're not in GOAT arguments no matter what team they end up on.
Lebron's best teammate ever was Wade and he had to put himself on the team to get him.
Part of legacy is luck. You can't win a title by yourself. |
I think Lebron's been lucky enough. In his 6th season his team had the best record in the league. He's figured out how to manipulate the NBA's CBA and FA system to his full advantage like no one else, and in doing so he's changed how players "create" their own luck about playing on a team with a chance to win a title. The days of a Kobe or Jordan sticking it out and waiting to get lucky through their hard work and perseverance are over.
When you have the opportunity to form a superteam at age 25 and stay on one for the rest of your career, I'd say you're lucky enough.
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tariqo
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Nov 2010
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 1:52 am Post subject: |
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if we talking about skills wise then kobe is miles better
kobe played in the western conference & faced the toughest opponents
while Lebum play his whole career in the weak ass eastern conference
lebron went to wade & bosh to win his first rings
then lost to the warriors because he had no kyrie to save his ass lol
at the end he is a great player but not even close to be in the top 5 all time
about kobe ... its sad to see people easily forget when he dominate the league full of real superstars |
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Day
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 1715
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:04 am Post subject: |
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When you watch MJ he was by far the most athletically gifted player of his time, go back and watch some of his finals series - he was bigger and faster than everyone.
When you watch LeBron play he is by far the most athletically gifted player in the game, watch any game he plays - he's bigger and faster than everyone else.
When you watch Kobe play he had an average NBA body, he wasn't unathletic by any means, but he was no where near the physically dominant force like MJ and LeBron.
When you compare what they all accomplished, look at their competition, how can you argue against what Kobe did? Kobe played against the best competition of the three players by far, achieved as much or more, and did so through skill and willpower instead of athletic dominance. Imagine if Kobe played in the East, no triangle, in todays pace...his numbers would be just as, or more so, inflated than LeBron's.
Also...getting to the finals in the East isn't an accomplishment IMO. If you lose in the finals it means that had your team been in the other conference you wouldn't even had made the finals. How many of those years that LeBron got to the finals would they have been even in the WCF? This is why rings matter, if LeBron played in the west he would have gotten to the finals 3 times in his career.
Last edited by Day on Mon May 28, 2018 5:08 am; edited 3 times in total |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25086
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 5:04 am Post subject: |
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| LeBron has been a fantastic player to watch, best in the game prob this decade and still counting. The 2000’s belong to Kobe with Duncan/Shaq/LeBron chasing him. This post season LeBron reminds me of 2006 Kobe, dragging a less talented team against superior talents. I still has Kobe ahead of LeBron, not by much, rings also count in my book |
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