KAWHI LEONARD THREAD (Woj: KL to sign with Clippers who get Paul George)
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
I'm sure as hell glad this didn't happen: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/report-spurs-turned-down-huge-offer-from-celtics-for-kawhi-leonard/ar-BBL9l2Y?li=BBnb7Kz


Funny how it is called a "huge deal". Is it really? Only a couple of those picks are actually that good. I can see why SA chose not to take that Boston deal of "multiple first rounders".

JMO but the protections on those picks supposedly offered takes a bit of the shine off them.

The Sacramento pick is solid with no protections. But Memphis is top 8 protected next year, top 6 the year after. The Clippers pick is top 14 protected the next two years, then converts to 2nd rd picks. Boston's picks should be high 20's the next few years.

So what exactly would SA have been getting? One high pick and potentially a couple mid to high 1st rounders?

Same hype was in the Toronto trade. SA got a 1st. But protected top 20 then converts to 2nd round picks. Just me, but I think Toronto will finish top 10 even if Leonard misses parts of the season and is not the same player.


i agree but please remember the media treats Danny Ainge/Celtics differently then the lakers.

so i m not surprised
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


"Thibs mileage"


Seems to me though, and just based on eyeball test, but, Klay's playing style is far more conducive to aging gracefully than Butler's.

Probably in part why he has had fewer injuries throughout his career.


Thibs runs the most insane practices and regularly over practices and wears his players down. And klay’s game will age better than jimmy’s.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
1. Curry factor - say anything you want (aka "he improved", "he works hard", "he tries hard") - Steph is a horrible defender and Klay always picks up an assignment of defending "the most dangerous" of opposing guards.


A lot of people seem to think this. And yet the metrics tell us that Curry is about the same as Thompson in terms of effectiveness, and usually a little bit better. This has been consistent for a number of seasons and is not a fluke. My eyeballs tell me that Curry is nothing special as a defender, but not that he is a horrible defender or that Klay is the defensive anchor of the Warriors' backcourt.

I think this perception may have a lot to do with appearance. Thompson looks like he ought to be a great defender, while Curry looks like he ought to be a defensive liability. In reality, they're about the same. Both of them are a little above average for their positions, but neither of them are even close to elite status.


I think Klay is better defensively. His numbers might be worse but that is because his assignments are usually harder.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


This is awesome, thanks


NP.....I was even surprised at the large difference. Going to the Finals every year can take a toll on a player.
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24Legend007
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
trablos wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Skip Bayless: "I want to see KD win a championship for Lebron."

Me too.

I'm willing to wait for Durant if he wants to don the purple and gold.

As much as I love Kawhi's game. Lebron and KD would be just as potent if not more.

I'd take KD over Kawhi in a heartbeat just for the fact that it instantly makes us better than GS.


So we get the #1 and #2 players in the league... Shaq/Kobe part deux


KD loves Lebron he has been a mentor to him. That is the one thing we got going for us. George and Lebron were cool but not close Lebron and KD were. Kawhi isn't close to anyone, so he is just so hard to judge.

I'm pushing and predicting KD to L.A. next season.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
That's where arguing simply doesn't make any sense as it becomes a matter of opinion. No defensive metric you're going to use would convince me that Curry is above average defender. Or - that Curry is on the same level as Klay defensively, or anyone else from their "death lineup".

For me - based on the plenty of GS games I have seen over last six-seven seasons: Curry is a bad defender who tries hard not to be a liability (which should be commended for anyone with his "star" status). Klay used to be a great defender that lately slipped closer to average from premier status - be it due the mileage or other factors.


I understand your point about opinions. Still, at some point, there should be some support in the metrics, or Klay should have made an all defense team or the like. Instead, his defensive impact has graded out about the same over the years, and Curry has graded out about the same or a little better.




Besides the lack of great metrics for defense, the fact that Klay always matches up with the opponent's best perimeter player and Curry always takes the worst also needs to be factored in.
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


This is awesome, thanks


NP.....I was even surprised at the large difference. Going to the Finals every year can take a toll on a player.


Sure does.

Lebron James - 1372 games and 54,347 career mins.

More then both combined. Crazy how it puts "wear and tear" into perspective.

Considering Leonard took off a year he still has some unexpected totals.

494 games, 15,272 mins

Considering his unknown quad issue and the "wear and tear" of his career mins need to be taken a bit more seriously IMO.


Last edited by Four Decade Bandwagon on Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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babyskyhook
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:11 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


"Thibs mileage"


Seems to me though, and just based on eyeball test, but, Klay's playing style is far more conducive to aging gracefully than Butler's.

Probably in part why he has had fewer injuries throughout his career.


Thibs runs the most insane practices and regularly over practices and wears his players down. And klay’s game will age better than jimmy’s.



This is a HUGE factor that most people are unaware of, as Thibs always maxes out practices time and has his teams go hard at every practice.


Last edited by babyskyhook on Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:17 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
This is a HUGE factor that most people are unaware of, as Thibs always practices the maximum allowed time and has his teams go hard at every practice.


What is the "maximum allowed time"?
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golakersgo121
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:42 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


"Thibs mileage"


Seems to me though, and just based on eyeball test, but, Klay's playing style is far more conducive to aging gracefully than Butler's.

Probably in part why he has had fewer injuries throughout his career.


Thibs runs the most insane practices and regularly over practices and wears his players down. And klay’s game will age better than jimmy’s.



This is a HUGE factor that most people are unaware of, as Thibs always practices the maximum allowed time and has his teams go hard at every practice.



No doubt - it has to be taken in consideration. Great point, guys - I knew about it but never thought about it in this particular context.


With all this said - would it be fair to extrapolate Thib's practices as equal to almost two additional seasons?


as a side note: Jimmy's game was never based on exceptional athletism. So - to this extent I am not sure, Yin, why you feel Klay will age better. Just because he can end up as a catch-and-shoot guy that age gracefully as the shot is the last thing that goes?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject:

I'd take Klay over Butler. While I understand saying Butler is the better player, I'd rather have the elite 3 point shooting and spacing it creates..
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject:

I'd take Butler over Klay if it were 2006.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Staccatos wrote:
adkindo wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakerz32 wrote:
with so much talk about klay, assuming kd and kawhi were off the table

who would you guys choose between klay and butler?


Klay. Less Thibs mileage.


but a whole lot more mileage...both guys were drafted in 2011 and are 28 years old.

Klay
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 537 G & 17,688 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 102 G & 3,752 M
Total Games & Minutes - 639 Games & 21,440 Minutes

Butler
Regular Season Games & Minutes - 458 G & 15,044 M
Post Season Games & Minutes - 43 G & 1,627 M
Total Games & Minutes - 501 Games & 16,671 Minutes

Over 7 years, Klay has an additional 138 Games & 4,769 Minutes of "wear & tear" on his body in comparison to Butler.....that is about 2 additional seasons. Full disclosure....there are 2 main reasons for this...one being Klay has been healthier than Butler throughout his career & the # of additional playoff games with GSW. Klay has a career average of 32.9 MPG while Jimmy Butler has a career average of 32.8 MPG.


"Thibs mileage"


Seems to me though, and just based on eyeball test, but, Klay's playing style is far more conducive to aging gracefully than Butler's.

Probably in part why he has had fewer injuries throughout his career.


Thibs runs the most insane practices and regularly over practices and wears his players down. And klay’s game will age better than jimmy’s.



This is a HUGE factor that most people are unaware of, as Thibs always practices the maximum allowed time and has his teams go hard at every practice.



No doubt - it has to be taken in consideration. Great point, guys - I knew about it but never thought about it in this particular context.


With all this said - would it be fair to extrapolate Thib's practices as equal to almost two additional seasons?


as a side note: Jimmy's game was never based on exceptional athletism. So - to this extent I am not sure, Yin, why you feel Klay will age better. Just because he can end up as a catch-and-shoot guy that age gracefully as the shot is the last thing that goes?


Look at korver’s jumper Jimmy’s game is based a lot on his athleticism IMO.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:30 am    Post subject:

Raptors coach is reporting a good first meeting with Kahwi.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all


He’s in a great situation, making money, living his lifestyle and being an important part of the best NBA team of all time.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:50 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all


He’s in a great situation, making money, living his lifestyle and being an important part of the best NBA team of all time.


Probably - 'one of the best' - no?

Also - that's how it looks on the surface, I can't argue that.

Yet, I am still curious about several things:

1. Is there any validity to DWest mentioning that it is far from perfect?
2. I'd like to see this upcoming season both (Klay and Dreymond) to qualify for supermax as I am curious to see what GS does about it
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Last edited by golakersgo121 on Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all


He’s in a great situation, making money, living his lifestyle and being an important part of the best NBA team of all time.


he has also said he is willing to paycut but you never know
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all


It's going to be a very interesting season with next summer looming for the Warriors.

Will Durant leave? Expect rumors all year.
Will Klay leave?
What to do with Draymond? Extended him at 30% of the cap?
Iggy a potential candidate for salary dump to save money. Same for Livingston.

Something has to give money wise. Here's to a Warriors internal implosion this season.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
does Klay even care to be a 1st/2nd/3rd option day in/day out and have that pressure on him?

he seems pretty happy here in the bay playing the 3rd fiddle to Curry/KD. no pressure at all


He’s in a great situation, making money, living his lifestyle and being an important part of the best NBA team of all time.


he has also said he is willing to paycut but you never know


As crazy as it might sound, being in a good situation might cause him to take $25 mil instead of $35 mil. I have made similar decisions, though on a much smaller scale.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
This is a HUGE factor that most people are unaware of, as Thibs always practices the maximum allowed time and has his teams go hard at every practice.


What is the "maximum allowed time"?




I was dictating into my phone and I was either mumbling or it must have autocorrected “maxes out practice time”.

Basically, Thibs runs the longest practices in the NBA, and they are also among the most intense. That puts a lot of hidden mileage on his players.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:28 am    Post subject:

l4kerz wrote:
Raptors coach is reporting a good first meeting with Kahwi.


I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else.

KL wants to get paid next summer. As long as his injury doesn’t flare up, I think KL will ball out on the court and be a professional in his dealings with the Raps off the court.

He’ll come to practice on time, won’t miss flights, etc.

But he’s not going to all of a sudden become happy to be there. He’s a very different person than PG.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
l4kerz wrote:
Raptors coach is reporting a good first meeting with Kahwi.


I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else.

KL wants to get paid next summer. As long as his injury doesn’t flare up, I think KL will ball out on the court and be a professional in his dealings with the Raps off the court.

He’ll come to practice on time, won’t miss flights, etc.

But he’s not going to all of a sudden become happy to be there. He’s a very different person than PG.



He may even end up "quite happy" there, but....

Knows he will be giddy happy in PNG....
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:59 pm    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
l4kerz wrote:
Raptors coach is reporting a good first meeting with Kahwi.


I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else.

KL wants to get paid next summer. As long as his injury doesn’t flare up, I think KL will ball out on the court and be a professional in his dealings with the Raps off the court.

He’ll come to practice on time, won’t miss flights, etc.

But he’s not going to all of a sudden become happy to be there. He’s a very different person than PG.


He’s much more sensitive, I am not sure how that would play out in a large market.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
l4kerz wrote:
Raptors coach is reporting a good first meeting with Kahwi.


I wouldn’t expect him to say anything else.

KL wants to get paid next summer. As long as his injury doesn’t flare up, I think KL will ball out on the court and be a professional in his dealings with the Raps off the court.

He’ll come to practice on time, won’t miss flights, etc.

But he’s not going to all of a sudden become happy to be there. He’s a very different person than PG.


He’s much more sensitive, I am not sure how that would play out in a large market.


Well PG avoided the larger market so we know how sensitive he is.
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