Kawhi Leonard to LA? (Math to Sign KL in 2019, p. 1; Nothing New on the Trade Front)
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cyborgspider
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

I'm like 10% confident a Kawhi trade will happen (most likely BI gone) but was 5% a month ago. Running the numbers & the order of operations though, I got stuck on losing Julius in order to have enough space to sign PG.

C Brook (Room) / min vet
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma (or traded to SA)
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG George (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

Not very deep. Versus ignoring PG...

C Brook (Room) / Randle (bird)
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG KCP or Ariza or Reddick (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

If you trade for Leonard with Ingram/Ball + Deng, you actually save 5m more in cap space. Sign James, and with Randle's cap hold, you're at about 18m in space. Split that up for two good vets, or to a Barton or other dark horse elite role player. Paul George doesn't get to feel like a 3rd wheel and the team can cater towards James/Leonard's strengths more.
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:14 am    Post subject:

I've read the past few pages and feel that trying to compare KL's stats to current Laker players or T. Harris is insane.

Besides overlooking how well he's played in his previous two seasons before this past nine-games-only aberration, have some of you forgotten that there are two ends of the basketball court? Leonard is one of the best defenders (if not THE best) in the league!

Defense is 50% of the game... please stop it with the crazy comparisons. It is because of how well he is able to harass positions 1-4 that he's one of the top five players in the NBA. Literally smh right now that some just don't seem to understand that.


Last edited by joeblow on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:17 am; edited 2 times in total
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

Why the thread all of a sudden silent? Something big about to go down? LOL
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iimarshon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:17 am    Post subject:

TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights
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Last edited by iimarshon on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:18 am; edited 2 times in total
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Chronicle
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Why the thread all of a sudden silent? Something big about to go down? LOL


> No posts in 1 minute

> Thread is silent
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KobeDunk
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:18 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Why the thread all of a sudden silent? Something big about to go down? LOL


doubtful
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Johnny Cage
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
DMAULS wrote:
epak wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
It's cute to say keep the kids

Magic/Rob are going to go get KL if they have chance. I am good as long as we only trade 1 of lonzo/Liz/BI. My bet is BI


Point is, what if Spurs are unwilling to trade him to the Lakers?


Then it's fine & u go in with what we have.

Some people because they don't want bi to be traded they are just making stuff like trading 5/6 players or how t Harris had same stats as KL


Tobias Harris... 19.3 PPG this season
5.6 RPG
1.7 APG
1.2 STL
41.4% 3 pt shooting
80.0% FT shooting

Kawhi Leonard... 16.3 PPG career
6.2 RPG
2.3 APG
1.8 STL
38.6% 3 pt shooting
84.6% FT shooting

One player is worth trading our core and paying the max... if I covered the names could you all tell which one it is?


Can you post their 2016-17 stats as well?


Why are you posting season stats for one player and career for the other. That's real shady.


Fine you want Kawhi's season this year

16.2 PPG
4.7 RPG
2.3 APG
2.0 STL
31.4% 3 PT%
81.6% FT%

Wow... so much better.


That was on a heavy minutes-restriction dude.. Spurs weren’t letting him play for more than 20 minutes a game or so. If you average those numbers out per/36, then those are All-Star averages. And that’s before you mention the fact that he’s the best perimeter defender in the NBA.

Quit pushing your silly agenda. You’re making yourself look bad.


Last edited by Johnny Cage on Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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governator
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:19 am    Post subject:

We get Kawhi LAnard, LAbron and Purple n Gold yet?
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danzag
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Why the thread all of a sudden silent? Something big about to go down? LOL


> No posts in 1 minute

> Thread is silent


IG in a nutshell
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:20 am    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
Chris Mannix
@ChrisMannixYS

How the Spurs are operating, per multiple sources from teams that have checked in on Kawhi Leonard in recent days: We're not shopping him, but if you want to make us an offer, go ahead, we'll consider it.


They might just go to the deadline with him and still get about the same value.


Offer them a bag of chips & wait
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights

Very well though out sir. You have a future.

I disagree with some things, but conceptually, it is very well done. Good job!
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Why the thread all of a sudden silent? Something big about to go down? LOL


> No posts in 1 minute

> Thread is silent


IG in a nutshell


Danzag in a nutshell
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Mini Mamba
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

How many teams will have cap space for next summer?

I’d hate to trade a couple of really good young players for a possible rental.
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Zubolo
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:23 am    Post subject:

cyborgspider wrote:
I'm like 10% confident a Kawhi trade will happen (most likely BI gone) but was 5% a month ago. Running the numbers & the order of operations though, I got stuck on losing Julius in order to have enough space to sign PG.

C Brook (Room) / min vet
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma (or traded to SA)
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG George (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

Not very deep. Versus ignoring PG...

C Brook (Room) / Randle (bird)
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG KCP or Ariza or Reddick (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

If you trade for Leonard with Ingram/Ball + Deng, you actually save 5m more in cap space. Sign James, and with Randle's cap hold, you're at about 18m in space. Split that up for two good vets, or to a Barton or other dark horse elite role player. Paul George doesn't get to feel like a 3rd wheel and the team can cater towards James/Leonard's strengths more.



To me, all it really comes down to is trading away Luol Deng along with two future 1st round picks to clear cap space.

Then sign Lebron to a 1+1, giving him the max for each year.
Sign PG to slightly less than the max with a contract that drops by 5% each year (thank adkindo). That means, PG13's contract looks sthg like

Year 1 = ~$29m (as opposed to $30.3m)
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (opt out)


PG13 can opt out after year 2 and having his early bird rights as well as the fact that he's then a 10 year vet, we can go over the cap and offer him a 4 year deal at 35% of the salary cap (as opposed to 30%).

Structuring the contracts this way positions us to Sign PG and Lebron, retain all our young core and either
Option A: Trade Randle and BI for Kawhi either via S&T (with Randle) or mid-season prior to the trade deadline
Option B: Trade Randle and BI for future high end lottery picks after the 2019 season in order to clear enough space to sign Kawhi for a figure close to the max.

We need to be a realistic threat to sign Kawhi and not completely tie ourselves up salary-wise in order for rival teams to know not to mess around and blow up their future assets for nothing.

Here's the breakdown of our 2019 salary structure:

2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00

1 Lebron............................................. $30,219,374
2 2019 7-9 Year Max (Leonard/Thompson).. $30,000,000
3 2018 7-9 Year Max (Paul George)........ $27,815,000
4 Lonzo Ball........................................ $8,719,320
5 Kyle Kuzma...................................... $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart........................................... $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)............ $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold..................... $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:
PG13 wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
Chris Mannix
@ChrisMannixYS

How the Spurs are operating, per multiple sources from teams that have checked in on Kawhi Leonard in recent days: We're not shopping him, but if you want to make us an offer, go ahead, we'll consider it.


They might just go to the deadline with him and still get about the same value.


Offer them a bag of chips & wait

Yep. Their nervous. The LAkers are not.

The Lakers are eying/navigating history (with or without Leonard). The Spurs are drowning.

I say let them swallow more and more and more water ...
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lakerfanaticPT
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights

Very well though out sir. You have a future.

I disagree with some things, but conceptually, it is very well done. Good job!


You have Bryant going out in trade but also count Bryant as part of our team's salary????
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
Laker_Town wrote:
Idk if I'd give up Kuzma.

Ingram is the most likely candidate

I'd give up both for Kawhi assuming he's healthy.

Even being a real fan of BI and Kuz, I too would deal BI and Kuz for KL..... Plus with KL in it has to help even more so with the recruitment of Bron & PG-13...
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:28 am    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
cyborgspider wrote:
I'm like 10% confident a Kawhi trade will happen (most likely BI gone) but was 5% a month ago. Running the numbers & the order of operations though, I got stuck on losing Julius in order to have enough space to sign PG.

C Brook (Room) / min vet
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma (or traded to SA)
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG George (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

Not very deep. Versus ignoring PG...

C Brook (Room) / Randle (bird)
PF James (Cap space) / Kuzma
SF Leonard (trade) / min vet
SG KCP or Ariza or Reddick (Cap space) / Hart
PG Ball / min vet

If you trade for Leonard with Ingram/Ball + Deng, you actually save 5m more in cap space. Sign James, and with Randle's cap hold, you're at about 18m in space. Split that up for two good vets, or to a Barton or other dark horse elite role player. Paul George doesn't get to feel like a 3rd wheel and the team can cater towards James/Leonard's strengths more.



To me, all it really comes down to is trading away Luol Deng along with two future 1st round picks to clear cap space.

Then sign Lebron to a 1+1, giving him the max for each year.
Sign PG to slightly less than the max with a contract that drops by 5% each year (thank adkindo). That means, PG13's contract looks sthg like

Year 1 = ~$29m (as opposed to $30.3m)
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (opt out)


PG13 can opt out after year 2 and having his early bird rights as well as the fact that he's then a 10 year vet, we can go over the cap and offer him a 4 year deal at 35% of the salary cap (as opposed to 30%).

Structuring the contracts this way positions us to Sign PG and Lebron, retain all our young core and either
Option A: Trade Randle and BI for Kawhi either via S&T (with Randle) or mid-season prior to the trade deadline
Option B: Trade Randle and BI for future high end lottery picks after the 2019 season in order to clear enough space to sign Kawhi for a figure close to the max.

We need to be a realistic threat to sign Kawhi and not completely tie ourselves up salary-wise in order for rival teams to know not to mess around and blow up their future assets for nothing.

Here's the breakdown of our 2019 salary structure:

2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00

1 Lebron............................................. $30,219,374
2 2019 7-9 Year Max (Leonard/Thompson).. $30,000,000
3 2018 7-9 Year Max (Paul George)........ $27,815,000
4 Lonzo Ball........................................ $8,719,320
5 Kyle Kuzma...................................... $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart........................................... $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)............ $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold..................... $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000

You gotta give James and George around four million less per off their max per year and structure it in a way that the smallest year’s salary is next year... to make way for LEonard.
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iimarshon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights

Very well though out sir. You have a future.

I disagree with some things, but conceptually, it is very well done. Good job!


I am willing to fill Pelinka's coffee cups for free!
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iimarshon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject:

lakerfanaticPT wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights

Very well though out sir. You have a future.

I disagree with some things, but conceptually, it is very well done. Good job!


You have Bryant going out in trade but also count Bryant as part of our team's salary????


Whoops my bad.

Swap his 1.4m out for 850k minimum cap hold then.

550k extra to Bron lol
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JerryWest_44
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
Practice wrote:
Laker_Town wrote:
Idk if I'd give up Kuzma.

Ingram is the most likely candidate

I'd give up both for Kawhi assuming he's healthy.

Even being a real fan of BI and Kuz, I too would deal BI and Kuz for KL..... Plus with KL in it has to help even more so with the recruitment of Bron & PG-13...



Way too much especially when KL is telling all teams he's going to LA in 2019...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

I don't really know how this is even a question.

Leonard for Kuzma + Ingram is a steal. Ingram was the number 1 option for us last season and Kuzma had the green light to shoot.

IF both go to SAS, they will have to play under the system and pop will leave in a year or two.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
lakerfanaticPT wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
TRADES:
1. Ingram, Hart, 2021 1st, Bryant for Kawhi Leonard
2. 2019 1st, 2023 1st, Zubac to Hawks to absorb Deng
3. #25 to Philadelphia for #38 and #39

SALARIES:
1. 30m - LeBron James (5m less than max)
2. 28m - Paul George (2m less)
3. 7.5m - Lonzo Ball
4. 20m - Kawhi Leonard
5. 1.7m - Josh Hart
6. 1.4m - Thomas Bryant
7. 7m - Kentavious Caldwell Pope
8. 1.7m - Kyle Kuzma
9. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
10. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
11. 850k - Cap Hold (2nd Rounder)
12. 850k - Cap Hold (Vet Min)

= 100.7 million

ROOM EXCEPTION:
• Brook Lopez

DRAFT:
#38 - Jevon Carter
#39 - Gary Trent Jr
#47 - Jarred Vanderbilt

VET MINIMUMS:
* Omri Casspi
* Jamal Crawford
* Mo Speights
* Channing Frye
* Vince Carter

TWO WAY DEALS:
* Matt Thomas
* Alex Caruso

DEPTH CHART:
Ball / Crawford / Carter
George / KCP / Trent Jr
Leonard / Casspi / Carter
James / Kuzma / Vanderbilt
Lopez / Frye / Speights

Very well though out sir. You have a future.

I disagree with some things, but conceptually, it is very well done. Good job!


You have Bryant going out in trade but also count Bryant as part of our team's salary????


Whoops my bad.

Swap his 1.4m out for 850k minimum cap hold then.

550k extra to Bron lol


You also have Hart traded away, and then on the roster at 5.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Sure I'll post Isaiah Thomas's 2016-2017 stats too...

28.9 PPG
2.7 RPG
5.9 APG
37.9 3 PT%
90.9 FT%
62.5 TS%

Because for many here it's okay to use Kawhi's outlier season as a justification for trading our core but for IT it is only an aberration that will never be repeated again.


My goodness this is just petty.


He has a point. Many think that Cousins and IT will never approach the health that they once had but that Leonard will be 100% and are willing to strip away some of our youth for him. I would pass on all 3 until they prove they are healthy to play.
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lakersfan8
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

So finally after paying all the debt from the Nash trade, we are going to trade our multiple 1st rounds picks again? What happens if Kwahi becomes injury prone like Nash? The last teams that traded away multiple 1st round picks (more than two) are us and the Nets and neither of the teams benefits much from the gambling. Even if we have all 3 of them, I am still not confident we can beat the Warriors so are we really going all in with our future so we can lose them in the WCF? Personally, I prefer to sticking with the original plan which is sign LBJ and PG13, and resign Randle.
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