Kawhi Leonard (Rules for any Kawhi Trade, p. 1; Amick: Spurs telling West teams to pound salt, will send him East - if anywhere at all. p. 208)
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DancingBarry
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/rachel__nichols/status/1007034660579364865?s=21


So if I have this right, Kawhi, Popovich, Jeanie Buss, and LeBron are all in NYC? That's an interesting backdrop, if true.


Kind of curious where Dan Gilbert might have been today, too.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:57 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/rachel__nichols/status/1007034660579364865?s=21


So if I have this right, Kawhi, Popovich, Jeanie Buss, and LeBron are all in NYC? That's an interesting backdrop, if true.


Kind of curious where Dan Gilbert might have been today, too.


LeBron to SA.
Kawhi to Lakers.
Picks to Cavs.

I like it
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/rachel__nichols/status/1007034660579364865?s=21


So if I have this right, Kawhi, Popovich, Jeanie Buss, and LeBron are all in NYC? That's an interesting backdrop, if true.


Kind of curious where Dan Gilbert might have been today, too.


LeBron to SA.
Kawhi to Lakers.
Picks to Cavs.

I like it


Think everyone would rather have Kawhi tbh but don't think Lebron would wanna go to S.A.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:28 am    Post subject:

Any time someone starts to think of Kawhi trade scenarios, just remember that Pop wanted the NBA to start a committee to veto trades because of the Gasol deal. He was apoplectic about the Lakers getting Pau.

The Lakers beat the Spurs in the playoffs multiple times, humiliated them in ‘01, and kept the from being the team of the decade in the 2000’s. The Lakers were the main reason the Spurs never repeated as champs.

Imo there is no way in the world Pop will trade Kawhi here, even if he’s getting a King’s ransom back.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:42 am    Post subject:

babyskyhook wrote:
Any time someone starts to think of Kawhi trade scenarios, just remember that Pop wanted the NBA to start a committee to veto trades because of the Gasol deal. He was apoplectic about the Lakers getting Pau.

The Lakers beat the Spurs in the playoffs multiple times, humiliated them in ‘01, and kept the from being the team of the decade in the 2000’s. The Lakers were the main reason the Spurs never repeated as champs.

Imo there is no way in the world Pop will trade Kawhi here, even if he’s getting a King’s ransom back.


The more I think about the Pau trade, the more perplexed I am. The Grizzlies kept it low key, instead of trying to create a bidding war for super star who hadn't yet turn 28. Were we seriously the only one with an expiring contract?

I don't subscribe to conspiracies, but if I were to draw up one... the league, the Grizzlies and Lakers colluded to make the Lakers great again because that's good for the league. People think it's Gilbert's whiny letter that got Stern to veto the CP3 deal, but maybe it was also tied to the Gasol deal. Too much favoritism was the optics.

If I were to write a script explaining the CP3 veto. Only if conspiracies are real. LOL!
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:07 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
Any time someone starts to think of Kawhi trade scenarios, just remember that Pop wanted the NBA to start a committee to veto trades because of the Gasol deal. He was apoplectic about the Lakers getting Pau.

The Lakers beat the Spurs in the playoffs multiple times, humiliated them in ‘01, and kept the from being the team of the decade in the 2000’s. The Lakers were the main reason the Spurs never repeated as champs.

Imo there is no way in the world Pop will trade Kawhi here, even if he’s getting a King’s ransom back.


The more I think about the Pau trade, the more perplexed I am. The Grizzlies kept it low key, instead of trying to create a bidding war for super star who hadn't yet turn 28. Were we seriously the only one with an expiring contract?

I don't subscribe to conspiracies, but if I were to draw up one... the league, the Grizzlies and Lakers colluded to make the Lakers great again because that's good for the league. People think it's Gilbert's whiny letter that got Stern to veto the CP3 deal, but maybe it was also tied to the Gasol deal. Too much favoritism was the optics.

If I were to write a script explaining the CP3 veto. Only if conspiracies are real. LOL!


Yet Marc Gasol has been a 3-time All-Star, has won a Defensive Player Of The Year award, has made All-NBA twice, and, oh by the way, is still playing for them! All that for a guy who was going to leave the Grizzlies as a free agent.

The fact is that, even though Memphis ended up getting a very good player out of the deal that is still playing for them, not enough people can apparently view it objectively because the Lakers happened to get better. That's not how you judge a trade. Memphis ended up getting a more-than-fair return for what it gave up.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:15 am    Post subject:

Trading for Kawhi Now makes sense, IDK if it's good sense or not...
I would differ in opinion regarding his injury and say that it was more blown out of proportion due to the severity of him not being happy in SA.
Kawhi has some influence on his end and I'm sure he knows that in a bigger market, he can make bigger money. This is obviously why the Shoe deal and everything else is on hold status, but I think it's taking even longer than he expected.
If you've ever watched him play or train, you'll know it won't take him any time to get back to being the Finals MVP player he was.

As for who would the Lakers Trade. I'm really not sure, but if there is a way we can sign and trade players to obtain Kawhi, I'm sure we have enough leverage to do so, plus throw in one or more of our young talented players.

S&T Options IMO would be:
KCP, IT, Lopez

Young Players to Consider:
Randle, Ingram, Ball, Hart, Kuzma, Zubac

I'm simply trying to take a guess at what players would interest POP from a personnel standpoint and IMO, all of the S&T guys fit the mold as well as the Young guys. Randle wouldn't be that far from his home town in Dallas, so that makes sense. I also don't believe any player on the team is untouchable and so Ball is definitely in the discussion.

The Lakers do have some leverage, it's just a matter of what we're willing to give up.
If we were to trade for Kawhi, my guess is that it would still be with the idea of being able to sign two(2) Max players in Free-Agency. Albeit having Kawhi, George and James all seem redundant. But I could see us having Kawhi and George and add a third complimentary piece, maybe someone at the Guard Spot.
It's all interesting to say the least, so lets see where the ball falls come Start of the Season.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:57 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


That is a lot of money but perhaps even more importantly too high of a percentage of the cap.

To me, that is the real issue which you touched on a bit...how do you build a team like that?


Right. As OKC shows, a supermax contract is sort of a white elephant.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:08 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


This is why it’s unreasonable:

1) SA expects KL to convince them he’s worth the supermax
2) He doesn’t convince them

Now what? Trade KL to a team and convince them to give up an arm and a leg?

Now the Spurs must convince another team that KL is worth trading for AND signing long term for max money


Under your reasoning, the Spurs should sign Leonard to a supermax contract because they would have a hard time convincing anyone else that he is worth that much.

If the Spurs do not assess Leonard as being worth a supermax contract, and if Leonard will not sign for less than a supermax contract, then the logical alternative is to trade him to a team that assesses his value at the supermax level. Offhand, I can't remember how the trade rules work (i.e., whether the new team could give Leonard a supermax). Regardless, the Spurs would be foolish to commit such a big chunk of their cap space to a player who they do not assess to be worth so much.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject:

24. What is the Designated Player rule? What are the performance criteria for earning a higher maximum salary?


Quote:

In summary, the kinds of contracts and extensions that can be signed using the Designated Player rule and the 5th Year, 30% Max Criteria are as follows:


Designated Rookie Extension Entering 4th season of Rookie Scale Contract; designated by team 25% of cap (30% if meets 5th Year 30% Max Criteria) Maximum 6 years (including remaining year on current contract)

Free Agent Contract after Rookie Scale Contract Finished Rookie Scale Contract, or 2nd round pick or undrafted player with 4 years of service; designated by team 25% of cap (30% if meets 5th Year 30% Max Criteria) Maximum 5 years

Designated Veteran Extension 7 or 8 years of service when extension signed; 1 or 2 years remaining on contract; with same team continuously (unless traded during first four years in the league); meets Designated Veteran Player 35% Max Criteria3 35% of cap Maximum 6 years (including remaining years on current contract)

Designated Veteran Contract 8 or 9 years of service; with same team continuously (unless traded during first four years in the league); meets Designated Veteran Player 35% Max Criteria 35% of cap Maximum 5 years




Sure wish some HTML was allowed here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


This is why it’s unreasonable:

1) SA expects KL to convince them he’s worth the supermax
2) He doesn’t convince them

Now what? Trade KL to a team and convince them to give up an arm and a leg?

Now the Spurs must convince another team that KL is worth trading for AND signing long term for max money


Under your reasoning, the Spurs should sign Leonard to a supermax contract because they would have a hard time convincing anyone else that he is worth that much.

If the Spurs do not assess Leonard as being worth a supermax contract, and if Leonard will not sign for less than a supermax contract, then the logical alternative is to trade him to a team that assesses his value at the supermax level. Offhand, I can't remember how the trade rules work (i.e., whether the new team could give Leonard a supermax). Regardless, the Spurs would be foolish to commit such a big chunk of their cap space to a player who they do not assess to be worth so much.


Nope, that would not be my logic

My logic is this - no other team is going to have the same sit down w/ KL and have him convince them that he is worth the max.

All the other teams r willing to give up more for KL.

1) They r willing to pay a high price to trade for him
2) They r willing to offer him a long term max contract
3) They won’t require him to convince them he is worth the max

So yeah, SA can do what they want. But if they feel the NEED for him to convince them that he’s worth the supermax, if that truly is neccessary, then wouldn’t it be neccessary for all other teams?

Can some condition be neccessary for only one team but not to any other team? Seems kind of odd.

And asking a superstar to convince the team that they r worth a supermax can be off-putting to that superstar

Kind of like how Bob Myers answered the Durant question about getting whatever he wants. Dude was going down the same path as “he still needs to convince us he’s worth it, unlike Steph”

So it definitely can make KL react negatively. “You want me to convince you I’m worth it? There’s 29 other teams that are already convinced I’m worth it. Maybe I’ll go play for one of those teams?”

And look at your answer above. You already feel that he’s not worth that type of money. Is a sit down w/ KL going to change your POV? If SA went into that meeting not thinking he’s worth the supermax, then can a sit down change their mind? Should it change their mind? Seems kind of odd.

“Look KL, to be honest, we don’t think ur worth the supermax. So, convince us that u r brother.”
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:16 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


This is why it’s unreasonable:

1) SA expects KL to convince them he’s worth the supermax
2) He doesn’t convince them

Now what? Trade KL to a team and convince them to give up an arm and a leg?

Now the Spurs must convince another team that KL is worth trading for AND signing long term for max money


If the Spursnput him on the market, they won't have to convince any team to give up an arm and a leg. They will have multiple offers to choose from.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


This is why it’s unreasonable:

1) SA expects KL to convince them he’s worth the supermax
2) He doesn’t convince them

Now what? Trade KL to a team and convince them to give up an arm and a leg?

Now the Spurs must convince another team that KL is worth trading for AND signing long term for max money


If the Spursnput him on the market, they won't have to convince any team to give up an arm and a leg. They will have multiple offers to choose from.


Exactly.

And KL would feel the same way. You want me to convince u I’m worth the supermax? You’re not convinced yet? R u kidding me? There’s 29 other teams that r already convinced. Nah, I’m not going to convince you. Convince yourself.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:55 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
PG13 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
But Leonard is going to sign an extension in San Antonio. Right?


report came out today saying, SA is expecting KL to convince Spurs/POP why he is worth the supermax contract

lol @ spurs


It's not an unreasonable question, to be honest. I like Kawhi Leonard, but . . . five years, $219M is an awful lot. That's about $42M per year. I can't blame any team, especially a team in a smaller market like the Spurs, for being skeptical about giving someone a contract like that.

Take a look at the Thunder right now, with Westbrook on a supermax. The options for building around Westbrook are limited, without big luxury tax liability. Contracts like that are not no-brainers.


This is why it’s unreasonable:

1) SA expects KL to convince them he’s worth the supermax
2) He doesn’t convince them

Now what? Trade KL to a team and convince them to give up an arm and a leg?

Now the Spurs must convince another team that KL is worth trading for AND signing long term for max money


If the Spursnput him on the market, they won't have to convince any team to give up an arm and a leg. They will have multiple offers to choose from.


Exactly.

And KL would feel the same way. You want me to convince u I’m worth the supermax? You’re not convinced yet? R u kidding me? There’s 29 other teams that r already convinced. Nah, I’m not going to convince you. Convince yourself.


They can still pay him a significant amount more than any other team supermax or not. If KLnis cool losing millions because he doesn't want to convince them, that's cool with me, but a pretty stupid business decision
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:34 am    Post subject:

Its interesting that Kawhi isn't eligible for the supermax right now because he missed last year. According to Woj, he would have to requalify for it by making an all-nba team next season. Thus, even if the Spurs wanted to offer him the supermax right now, they can't until next summer (if ever). That definitely throws a wrench into things. Spurs may not want to risk that he walks next summer.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Its interesting that Kawhi isn't eligible for the supermax right now because he missed last year. According to Woj, he would have to requalify for it by making an all-nba team next season. Thus, even if the Spurs wanted to offer him the supermax right now, they can't until next summer (if ever). That definitely throws a wrench into things. Spurs may not want to risk that he walks next summer.


Oh what...whoa. That changes things big time.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Its interesting that Kawhi isn't eligible for the supermax right now because he missed last year. According to Woj, he would have to requalify for it by making an all-nba team next season. Thus, even if the Spurs wanted to offer him the supermax right now, they can't until next summer (if ever). That definitely throws a wrench into things. Spurs may not want to risk that he walks next summer.


wow

how has this not been discussed more
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Its interesting that Kawhi isn't eligible for the supermax right now because he missed last year. According to Woj, he would have to requalify for it by making an all-nba team next season. Thus, even if the Spurs wanted to offer him the supermax right now, they can't until next summer (if ever). That definitely throws a wrench into things. Spurs may not want to risk that he walks next summer.


That's a very crucial tidbit, thanks LS.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject:

Jordan-esque wrote:
You guys should read Woj’s article about this, sounds like Kawhi might actually be traded instead of getting the supermax. Pop might only coach 1 more year too!


^ Told you guys to read Woj's article.

There's a LOT of info not being talked about here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:44 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Its interesting that Kawhi isn't eligible for the supermax right now because he missed last year. According to Woj, he would have to requalify for it by making an all-nba team next season. Thus, even if the Spurs wanted to offer him the supermax right now, they can't until next summer (if ever). That definitely throws a wrench into things. Spurs may not want to risk that he walks next summer.


That definitely levels the playing field a ton.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:45 am    Post subject:

The only way Kawhi gets traded here is if:

1. He demands a trade to LA only and his agent tells every other team that he won't re-sign there if they trade for him.

2. FA in 2019

So only way Kawhi comes to LA is if he aggressively makes it happen, IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
The only way Kawhi gets traded here is if:

1. He demands a trade to LA only and his agent tells every other team that he won't re-sign there if they trade for him.

2. FA in 2019

So only way Kawhi comes to LA is if he aggressively makes it happen, IMO.

Agreed. Perfectly said. This is all anyone really needs to know.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:49 am    Post subject:

I just googled it and this is what I have found:

A player qualifies for the DPE [Designated Player Exception], which can be used to give a player a contract extension or to sign him as a free agent, if he does one of the following:

1. He makes one of the three all-NBA teams or is named either defensive player of the year or most valuable player the previous season.

2. He has made one of the three all-NBA teams or has been named defensive player of the year in two of the prior three seasons or the league’s most valuable player in one of the three prior seasons.

And this crucial stipulation: He has to be on the team that drafted him or has to have been traded on his rookie deal to another team.


so I think Leonard is eligible for the second criteria.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
I just googled it and this is what I have found:

A player qualifies for the DPE [Designated Player Exception], which can be used to give a player a contract extension or to sign him as a free agent, if he does one of the following:

1. He makes one of the three all-NBA teams or is named either defensive player of the year or most valuable player the previous season.

2. He has made one of the three all-NBA teams or has been named defensive player of the year in two of the prior three seasons or the league’s most valuable player in one of the three prior seasons.

And this crucial stipulation: He has to be on the team that drafted him or has to have been traded on his rookie deal to another team.


so I think Leonard is eligible for the second criteria.


He qualifies this year. He would have to re-qualify next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
The only way Kawhi gets traded here is if:

1. He demands a trade to LA only and his agent tells every other team that he won't re-sign there if they trade for him.

2. FA in 2019

So only way Kawhi comes to LA is if he aggressively makes it happen, IMO.


You are correct LeBron.
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