KAWHI LEONARD THREAD (Woj: KL to sign with Clippers who get Paul George)
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joeblow
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject:

^^^ But SA has seven months to trade him.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject:

PostMalone24 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
eureca wrote:
Spurs can trade him out East if they want. That does not mean he won't be playing in the West come 2019.

So sure Spurs take a weaker package to send Kawhi exactly where you want. Lets see how much that pays off in a year.


What is this weaker package everyone keeps mentioning? All I have seen is a proposed Celtic deal and it is better than the proposals I have seen from the Lakers.

Do you honestly expect Ainge to give the spurs a decent package lol......... like come on it's Ainge


If he wants Leonard, then yes.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

2x post.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

lakerdynasty5.0 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
1hu2ren3dui4 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
1hu2ren3dui4 wrote:
I always thought the expression was to go pound sand.


Pound Sand
The concept of pounding sand is to do something pretty useless.

Pound Salt
In a nutshell it means ‘go F yourself.’ The full phrase is ‘go pound salt up your Azz,’ which was a figure of speech for ‘go do something degrading to yourself.’

Cassell’s Dictionary of Slang

POUND SALT UP YOUR AZZ! - Euphemism for ‘go to hell’


I’m pretty sure that’s what telling somebody to pound sand means.


The idiom go pound sand is an expression of contempt that often means, “Go away.” It also refers to a pointless activity. The idiom originated in American English. Native English speakers in other parts of the world are unfamiliar with it and do not use it.

The modern meanings of go pound sand originated in the 20th century. A 1948 edition of the Southeast Economist states:

From her store of memories Mrs. Mary R. Stuart of Harvard Ave, perpetrator of this column of sayings of wisecracks popular in the ‘Oh yeah?’ era, recalls that ‘go pound sand in your ears’ meant to soft-pedal the noise.

This suggests that the meaning of the phrase had only recently changed into an expression of contempt and was only just becoming popular around this time. It also implies this variation of the idiom meant something else entirely.

There are several vulgar versions of this idiom, including go pound salt up your azz and go pound sand up your azz. Max Yasgur, the man who hosted the famous Woodstock festival in 1969, reportedly told the local authorities:

Well, you can all go pound sand up your azz, because come August 15, we’re going to have a festival!


Thanks for sharing, LongBeachPoly Amazing you have a "Pound Sand" reference to Max Yasgur, the farmer who owned the land/woodstock!

Amazing, what one can learn on LG!


If you are a professional geologist then pounding sand takes on a much different meaning.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

Eindhoven wrote:
It's simple. If San Antonio gets similar proposals from a EC team and a WC team, they send Kawhi East. If the WC team proposal is clearly better, they send him West.

If Lakers and, say, Phoenix send San Antonio similar proposals, they trade Kawhi to Phoenix. If Lakers' proposal is clearly better, he comes to LA.

First priority is getting the best package from Kawhi, it would be silly otherwise.


Their first priority is not trading Leonard
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

Zubolo wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
lakerdynasty5.0 wrote:
Great work Zubolo! Based on your analysis, it not only appears possible to land KL next year, but also somewhat intriguing to PG13 and LBJ/

I do believe LBJ has to "show" that he's willing to take one (or rather take less) for the team! Only then will some of us (me included) who are not huge fans of his, may turn around...

Zubolo wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
How do the Lakers get Kawhi next year if they sign Lebron and PG this year?


This is how the Lakers can sign Lebron, PG, retain the bulk of their youth while creating enough flexibility to land Kawhi in 2019 if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us:

It would however come with a few sacrifices from the big 3. Consider it a small cost for the chance at history. The key is to offload Deng's contract at ALL costs! At all costs, I mean ideally 2 first round picks and a second round pick.

Lebron essentially gets the max in year 1 (a 1+1 deal) but would have to opt out in year 2 and take about $5m less to play with Kawhi. Again, this is ONLY if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us and Lebron wants to play with Kawhi. If the Spurs trade him to us, Lebron can pick up his second year option at an additional $35m

PG13 would have to consider a 2+1 deal, where he opts out in 2020 and signs the 10 year veteran rate (35% of cap space). PG would have to take a $1m pay cut in year one with a salary that reduces by 5% annually in order to make space for Kawhi. It would look something like this:
Year 1 = ~ $29m
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (player option)

Year 3 is just for insurance if he signs a 2+1 deal as described above.

This allows us to keep Randle and at worst offer a package of Ingram and Randle for Kawhi. If the Spurs don't agree to this even past the trade deadline, we still have leverage to sign Kawhi once he's a free agent. That threat alone might make them settle into dealing with us. It breaks down as follows:

2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00

1 Kawhi ................................................ $30,300,000
2 Paul George ...................................... $27,515,000
3 Lonzo Ball................................................ $8,719,320
4 Lebron.................................................... $30,219,374
5 Kyle Kuzma.............................................. $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart.................................................. $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)................... $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold............................ $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000

Ingram and Randle would have to be traded for two future lottery picks to an up and coming team with cap space. The key is to keep Randle at a contract where he's trade worthy (I have that somewhere around $17m/yr).

If more money is needed to accommodate the big 3, we can consider letting go of T Bryant but I personally like his potential.

I will keep repeating this post from time to time till I somehow 'speak it into existence'!!


I think the issue with this is that Lebron has already taken less money in Miami and he was one of the main people as VP of the players union to fight for these salaries. I think it would be a big FU to all the players if he took less money again, but who knows.. it’s a great theory.


True. Once again though its about maintaining FLEXIBILITY and providing a THREAT to the rest of the league signaling NOT to trade for Kawhi because he WILL walk and we do have the space for him.

Whether Lebron takes less to accommodate Kawhi and form a big three with himself and PG would ultimately be his choice unfortunately. However, if the Warriors 3peat, I cannot see a world in which he doesn't.

To add to the argument regarding the players union, how is CP3 going to recruit Lebron to the Rockets without both players, who just so happen to be President and VP theoretically not taking a pay cut? Even if Daryl Morey scorched earth and traded most of their assets, including Ryan Anderson, they would both have to take some sort of pay cut to make it work. I don't really buy the players union narrative, especially if it comes to a few dollars here and there. One could argue about the wink-wink deal CP3 made by turning down the Clippers offer, theoretically 'taking less' in order to be traded to the Rockets. Just saying.


Zubolo, I appreciate the time you put into breaking down the numbers in your post. The problem is it all hinges on Lebron agreeing to a 1+1 without any guarantee that Kawhi would actually sign here next summer.

What happens if Kawhi returns to play for the Spurs next season and he looks like 50% of the player he was? Would we even want him?

What if he gets traded to Boston and, God forbid, they win a championship next season? Would Kawhi walk away from that?

There are just way too many unknowns for Lebron to take that risk at this stage of his career. He'll be turning 34 next season. As we all saw with Kobe, who was still playing at an elite level before his achilles injury, things can all change in an instant once you hit your 30's. One wrong step, and it could all be over.
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:03 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.


SA should just present the contract to Kawhi and say "Here, sign the contract beatch!"

Better yet, have Tony Parker throw it on the floor at his feet.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:22 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
lakerdynasty5.0 wrote:
Great work Zubolo! Based on your analysis, it not only appears possible to land KL next year, but also somewhat intriguing to PG13 and LBJ/

I do believe LBJ has to "show" that he's willing to take one (or rather take less) for the team! Only then will some of us (me included) who are not huge fans of his, may turn around...

Zubolo wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
How do the Lakers get Kawhi next year if they sign Lebron and PG this year?


This is how the Lakers can sign Lebron, PG, retain the bulk of their youth while creating enough flexibility to land Kawhi in 2019 if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us:

It would however come with a few sacrifices from the big 3. Consider it a small cost for the chance at history. The key is to offload Deng's contract at ALL costs! At all costs, I mean ideally 2 first round picks and a second round pick.

Lebron essentially gets the max in year 1 (a 1+1 deal) but would have to opt out in year 2 and take about $5m less to play with Kawhi. Again, this is ONLY if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us and Lebron wants to play with Kawhi. If the Spurs trade him to us, Lebron can pick up his second year option at an additional $35m

PG13 would have to consider a 2+1 deal, where he opts out in 2020 and signs the 10 year veteran rate (35% of cap space). PG would have to take a $1m pay cut in year one with a salary that reduces by 5% annually in order to make space for Kawhi. It would look something like this:
Year 1 = ~ $29m
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (player option)

Year 3 is just for insurance if he signs a 2+1 deal as described above.

This allows us to keep Randle and at worst offer a package of Ingram and Randle for Kawhi. If the Spurs don't agree to this even past the trade deadline, we still have leverage to sign Kawhi once he's a free agent. That threat alone might make them settle into dealing with us. It breaks down as follows:

2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00

1 Kawhi ................................................ $30,300,000
2 Paul George ...................................... $27,515,000
3 Lonzo Ball................................................ $8,719,320
4 Lebron.................................................... $30,219,374
5 Kyle Kuzma.............................................. $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart.................................................. $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)................... $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold............................ $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000

Ingram and Randle would have to be traded for two future lottery picks to an up and coming team with cap space. The key is to keep Randle at a contract where he's trade worthy (I have that somewhere around $17m/yr).

If more money is needed to accommodate the big 3, we can consider letting go of T Bryant but I personally like his potential.

I will keep repeating this post from time to time till I somehow 'speak it into existence'!!


I think the issue with this is that Lebron has already taken less money in Miami and he was one of the main people as VP of the players union to fight for these salaries. I think it would be a big FU to all the players if he took less money again, but who knows.. it’s a great theory.


True. Once again though its about maintaining FLEXIBILITY and providing a THREAT to the rest of the league signaling NOT to trade for Kawhi because he WILL walk and we do have the space for him.

Whether Lebron takes less to accommodate Kawhi and form a big three with himself and PG would ultimately be his choice unfortunately. However, if the Warriors 3peat, I cannot see a world in which he doesn't.

To add to the argument regarding the players union, how is CP3 going to recruit Lebron to the Rockets without both players, who just so happen to be President and VP theoretically not taking a pay cut? Even if Daryl Morey scorched earth and traded most of their assets, including Ryan Anderson, they would both have to take some sort of pay cut to make it work. I don't really buy the players union narrative, especially if it comes to a few dollars here and there. One could argue about the wink-wink deal CP3 made by turning down the Clippers offer, theoretically 'taking less' in order to be traded to the Rockets. Just saying.


Zubolo, I appreciate the time you put into breaking down the numbers in your post. The problem is it all hinges on Lebron agreeing to a 1+1 without any guarantee that Kawhi would actually sign here next summer.

What happens if Kawhi returns to play for the Spurs next season and he looks like 50% of the player he was? Would we even want him?

What if he gets traded to Boston and, God forbid, they win a championship next season? Would Kawhi walk away from that?

There are just way too many unknowns for Lebron to take that risk at this stage of his career. He'll be turning 34 next season. As we all saw with Kobe, who was still playing at an elite level before his achilles injury, things can all change in an instant once you hit your 30's. One wrong step, and it could all be over.

But unlike Zu you’re offering zero solutions. I too respect Zu for the outline, but I mostly respect him for offering a solution and not just complaining about problems. Too much of that exists in the world, this board included.

If you’re going to critique a vision, at least offer an alternative plan. It’s just too easy to do that, especially when someone has, obviously, invested some time in outlining his.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



You mean like when Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's manhood by calling him a coward, he we went back and signed with them a few years later?

Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.


Last edited by george w kush on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.


What are the Spurs waiting on then?

Anyways, I don't think LeBron ever got over the comic sans letter.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

What are the Spurs waiting on then?




Find out if he's healthy enough to play? When was the last time a guy missed an entire season for a bruised knee?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:


The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.



There is a lot of conjecture in your post about what kind of person Pop is. All I know is he is one of the best coaches of all time and the Spurs are lucky to have him. What I’m more interested in, and maybe it’s slightly off topic, is the conflation of integrity and manhood.

Integrity is the quality of having strong moral principles, or moral uprightness. If a woman had her integrity insulted, would we say therefore her womanhood had also been insulted? I don’t think we would. I think it’s enough to say that the Spurs insulted his integrity.

Insulting his manhood should imply that he is not courageous, that he is weak, or that he is not sexually vital enough. I don’t think the two are the same.

Yes, I’m a language nerd that just adjectived language, and then verbed adjective.

If my wife told me that someone accused her of lying when she wasn’t, I actually would tell her that her womanhood is being attacked. I only said that because Leonard is a man.

Everything is semantics dude, but in my world, all you have is your word, your integrity and the respect that comes from people believing your words when you speak. I’m humble and I’m not a liar. I expect to be respected for my principles and if people not only can’t see me for who truly I am but also, go so far as to accuse me of flat-out lying, I take that as an insult to my manhood (because I’m a man), and I don’t allow myself to be around that type of energy.

Leonard and his uncle seem to be insulted in the very same way and seem to be wanting to extricate themselves from that emasculating energy ... because, let’s be clear, they called him a straight-up liar. Pop sent Parker and Manu in to that meeting to shame him and accuse him of lying. Simple as that.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

What are the Spurs waiting on then?




Find out if he's healthy enough to play? When was the last time a guy missed an entire season for a bruised knee?


That would be strange since they publicly said he was healthy enough to play last season. That's how this whole mess started.

If the Spurs are serious about healing this relationship they need to come out and publicly say they were wrong to question his concerns about his injury but they probably believe they were right about it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

What are the Spurs waiting on then?


Find out if he's healthy enough to play? When was the last time a guy missed an entire season for a bruised knee?


Ok, I'm a bit slow but something in your logic doesn't add up to me.

You say:

1) The Spurs haven't offered Kawhi the supermax yet
2) If the Spurs offered Kawhi the supermax, Kawhi will accept it
3) However, the Spurs are worried about his quad injury, so they are waiting to find out if he's healthy enough to play.

Ok, so I get this part. Here's where I get a little confused.

1) Should SA offer Kawhi the supermax, he has from Jul 16 to Oct 16 to sign the supermax.
2) They don't play any games between Jul 16 and Oct 16.
3) How exactly are the Spurs supposed to find out that he's healthy enough to play during this time?
4) If it's just a physical exam, couldn't they do it now? What exactly are they waiting for?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



You mean like when Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's manhood by calling him a coward, he we went back and signed with them a few years later?

Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.

They insinuated that he was a liar.

But your argument was that people do things for MONEY. Now you’re changing it.

James didn’t go back for money, he went back to Cleveland, in spite of Gilbert, because it fit James’ narrative, the story he wanted to be told.

There are a zillion examples you could give though dude. A zillion examples of guys who compromise their values for dough. I’m only sharing my perspective on what Leonard is doing. We’ll see how it pans out. I think it’s irreparable.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



You mean like when Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's manhood by calling him a coward, he we went back and signed with them a few years later?

Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.


The LeBron James - Dan Gilbert example doesn't support your argument.

Your argument is money trumps insults of a man's integrity.

Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's integrity, but, he didn't offer him more money to come back.

Ironic thing is, LeBron actually took less money to go back to Cleveland. He would have made more re-signing with Miami.

So it's counter to your premise.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

numero-ocho wrote:

That would be strange since they publicly said he was healthy enough to play last season. That's how this whole mess started.

If the Spurs are serious about healing this relationship they need to come out and publicly say they were wrong to question his concerns about his injury but they probably believe they were right about it.


It seems irreconcilable at this point.

They should have offered the supermax the moment he qualified for it, he earned it, rather than play these games in the media to guilt him into taking a paycut. They did this with Tim Duncan. They made him take a paycut from $20 million to $10 million. They said Dirk Nowitzki took a paycut, he’s selfless, and Kobe Bryant is making the max, he’s selfish. The media ran with it. It’s transparent. Screaming A said/screamed he wouldn’t sign a supermax offer at this point. Pesci has a point.


Last edited by JUST-MING on Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



You mean like when Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's manhood by calling him a coward, he we went back and signed with them a few years later?

Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.


The LeBron James - Dan Gilbert example doesn't support your argument.

Your argument is money trumps insults of a man's integrity.

Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's integrity, but, he didn't offer him more money to come back.

Ironic thing is, LeBron actually took less money to go back to Cleveland. He would have made more re-signing with Miami.

So it's counter to your premise.


No my argument is insults aren't going to be much of an influence in someones decision.

Either KL has a serious injury and missed an entire season for it(which should raise flags here), or he is a 'coward' for lying about his injury as an excuse to get leave SA, although that shouldn't bother people who value one's integrity as long as it benefits the Lakers right?

Anyway, I'm pretty confident they will work this out and if the Spurs weren't, we wouldn't be hearing rumors of them trying to fix the situation. All it takes is for both sides to sit down, have a talk, an apology or two and be done with it. There is a lot of stake for both sides.

I'd be shocked to see him actually traded, but we'll see. Hope I'm wrong though as I can't stand the Spurs, but historically they just seem like an organization that will fix things rather than letting it turn into a full blown soap opera like other organizations.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million.


george w kush wrote:
No my argument is insults aren't going to be much of an influence in someones decision.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

What are the Spurs waiting on then?



Find out if he's healthy enough to play? When was the last time a guy missed an entire season for a bruised knee?


george w kush wrote:
Anyway, I'm pretty confident they will work this out and if the Spurs weren't, we wouldn't be hearing rumors of them trying to fix the situation. All it takes is for both sides to sit down, have a talk, an apology or two and be done with it. There is a lot of stake for both sides.


Yeah, you're kind of all over the place.

So are they waiting to find out if he's healthy, or do they just need to sit down, have a talk, an apology or two and be done with it?

Or will they find out that he's healthy by sitting down, having a talk, and apologizing?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Eindhoven wrote:
It's simple. If San Antonio gets similar proposals from a EC team and a WC team, they send Kawhi East. If the WC team proposal is clearly better, they send him West.

If Lakers and, say, Phoenix send San Antonio similar proposals, they trade Kawhi to Phoenix. If Lakers' proposal is clearly better, he comes to LA.

First priority is getting the best package from Kawhi, it would be silly otherwise.


Their first priority is not trading Leonard


No reason to trade Leonard until you know if LA is a credible threat in 2019 free agency. LA playing coy, saying they could wait to use some cap room next year but James isn't going to want to leave that on the table when he wants to win now. You could in theory trade out George for Kawhi, but that's not a bad downside to waiting for the Spurs.

Best path is LeBron plus George with James taking a 1+1 leaving the possibility he could make Kawhi fit in a year. That threat value might make a package from LA the most intelligent.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
Zubolo wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
lakerdynasty5.0 wrote:
Great work Zubolo! Based on your analysis, it not only appears possible to land KL next year, but also somewhat intriguing to PG13 and LBJ/

I do believe LBJ has to "show" that he's willing to take one (or rather take less) for the team! Only then will some of us (me included) who are not huge fans of his, may turn around...

Zubolo wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
How do the Lakers get Kawhi next year if they sign Lebron and PG this year?


This is how the Lakers can sign Lebron, PG, retain the bulk of their youth while creating enough flexibility to land Kawhi in 2019 if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us:

It would however come with a few sacrifices from the big 3. Consider it a small cost for the chance at history. The key is to offload Deng's contract at ALL costs! At all costs, I mean ideally 2 first round picks and a second round pick.

Lebron essentially gets the max in year 1 (a 1+1 deal) but would have to opt out in year 2 and take about $5m less to play with Kawhi. Again, this is ONLY if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us and Lebron wants to play with Kawhi. If the Spurs trade him to us, Lebron can pick up his second year option at an additional $35m

PG13 would have to consider a 2+1 deal, where he opts out in 2020 and signs the 10 year veteran rate (35% of cap space). PG would have to take a $1m pay cut in year one with a salary that reduces by 5% annually in order to make space for Kawhi. It would look something like this:
Year 1 = ~ $29m
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (player option)

Year 3 is just for insurance if he signs a 2+1 deal as described above.

This allows us to keep Randle and at worst offer a package of Ingram and Randle for Kawhi. If the Spurs don't agree to this even past the trade deadline, we still have leverage to sign Kawhi once he's a free agent. That threat alone might make them settle into dealing with us. It breaks down as follows:

2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00

1 Kawhi ................................................ $30,300,000
2 Paul George ...................................... $27,515,000
3 Lonzo Ball................................................ $8,719,320
4 Lebron.................................................... $30,219,374
5 Kyle Kuzma.............................................. $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart.................................................. $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)................... $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold............................ $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000

Ingram and Randle would have to be traded for two future lottery picks to an up and coming team with cap space. The key is to keep Randle at a contract where he's trade worthy (I have that somewhere around $17m/yr).

If more money is needed to accommodate the big 3, we can consider letting go of T Bryant but I personally like his potential.

I will keep repeating this post from time to time till I somehow 'speak it into existence'!!


I think the issue with this is that Lebron has already taken less money in Miami and he was one of the main people as VP of the players union to fight for these salaries. I think it would be a big FU to all the players if he took less money again, but who knows.. it’s a great theory.


True. Once again though its about maintaining FLEXIBILITY and providing a THREAT to the rest of the league signaling NOT to trade for Kawhi because he WILL walk and we do have the space for him.

Whether Lebron takes less to accommodate Kawhi and form a big three with himself and PG would ultimately be his choice unfortunately. However, if the Warriors 3peat, I cannot see a world in which he doesn't.

To add to the argument regarding the players union, how is CP3 going to recruit Lebron to the Rockets without both players, who just so happen to be President and VP theoretically not taking a pay cut? Even if Daryl Morey scorched earth and traded most of their assets, including Ryan Anderson, they would both have to take some sort of pay cut to make it work. I don't really buy the players union narrative, especially if it comes to a few dollars here and there. One could argue about the wink-wink deal CP3 made by turning down the Clippers offer, theoretically 'taking less' in order to be traded to the Rockets. Just saying.


Zubolo, I appreciate the time you put into breaking down the numbers in your post. The problem is it all hinges on Lebron agreeing to a 1+1 without any guarantee that Kawhi would actually sign here next summer.

What happens if Kawhi returns to play for the Spurs next season and he looks like 50% of the player he was? Would we even want him?

What if he gets traded to Boston and, God forbid, they win a championship next season? Would Kawhi walk away from that?

There are just way too many unknowns for Lebron to take that risk at this stage of his career. He'll be turning 34 next season. As we all saw with Kobe, who was still playing at an elite level before his achilles injury, things can all change in an instant once you hit your 30's. One wrong step, and it could all be over.

But unlike Zu you’re offering zero solutions. I too respect Zu for the outline, but I mostly respect him for offering a solution and not just complaining about problems. Too much of that exists in the world, this board included.

If you’re going to critique a vision, at least offer an alternative plan. It’s just too easy to do that, especially when someone has, obviously, invested some time in outlining his.


Hmm...not really sure what I said to illicit this type of response. He built a beautiful framework (the numbers), but it was built on a shaky foundation (Lebron signing a 1+1). That isn't something that can just be glossed over, no?

I'm not a cap expert, but this is a message board and if I see a hole in a plan, I have the right to point it out. I don't think I'm being pessimistic when I say the likelihood of Lebron signing a 1+1 at 34 years old is slim to none.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
george w kush wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:

The Spurs have insulted Leonard’s integrity and thus his manhood. You don’t allow anyone to do that to you if you consider yourself a man, not your wife, not your mother, and certainly not your employer.




I'll let anyone insult my integrity if it guarantees me an extra $40 million. Besides, he can sign a supermax, play an extra year then demand a trade again. He'd still be only 28.

I know you want him on the team and all and refuse to believe this can be repaired, but you're underestimating the power of money. As far as I know, there have been rumors that KL doesn't care about a supermax. On the other hand, SA hasn't offered him one. So it's not like it's on the table and he's refusing to sign it.

Once the Spurs offer that contract, I can't see how a guy who missed an entire season due to a bruised quad turns down the richest contract in NBA history.

I think Leonard leans more to the principles that I’ve outlined than the spineless, bought and sold, do anything for money value system that you’re describing.

Everybody has a line dude. Hopefully, prayerfully, you do too. There are many, many things more important than money my man. Your manhood being one.



You mean like when Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's manhood by calling him a coward, he we went back and signed with them a few years later?

Words are just words, people get over them over time. We all saw Kobe insult Shaq by calling him lazy/fat/unmotivated. Shaq insulted/threw Kobe under the bus several times. Think they still hold a grudge? Time passes, people move on.

Besides the Spurs never 'questioned his manhood'. They question the injury. Why does it take an entire season to heal a bruised quad? Either he his using it as an excuse to bail on his team, or he had a SERIOUS quad injury which should raise flags for the Spurs and any team thinking about trading for him. Eitherway it's a bad look for him.

We'll see what happens. IMO the Spurs pull the Ace out their sleeve and offer him a supermax, he signs, and we all look like fools for spending so much time in this thread.


The LeBron James - Dan Gilbert example doesn't support your argument.

Your argument is money trumps insults of a man's integrity.

Dan Gilbert insulted LeBron's integrity, but, he didn't offer him more money to come back.

Ironic thing is, LeBron actually took less money to go back to Cleveland. He would have made more re-signing with Miami.

So it's counter to your premise.


No my argument is insults aren't going to be much of an influence in someones decision.

Either KL has a serious injury and missed an entire season for it(which should raise flags here), or he is a 'coward' for lying about his injury as an excuse to get leave SA, although that shouldn't bother people who value one's integrity as long as it benefits the Lakers right?

Anyway, I'm pretty confident they will work this out and if the Spurs weren't, we wouldn't be hearing rumors of them trying to fix the situation. All it takes is for both sides to sit down, have a talk, an apology or two and be done with it. There is a lot of stake for both sides.

I'd be shocked to see him actually traded, but we'll see. Hope I'm wrong though as I can't stand the Spurs, but historically they just seem like an organization that will fix things rather than letting it turn into a full blown soap opera like other organizations.

To your earlier point, the ONLY way Leonard comes back is if they throw FULL money at him. That’s the ONLY way.

Will they? Who knows.
Will he accept if they do? I still say no — he’s done.
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