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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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 Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | Truth is, in American culture the female principle will always be venerated, whereas the masculine principle will be suppressed. |
This is what happens on LG when we get a slow news day one week before free agency opens. I'm glad I had the World Cup to occupy my attention.
Anyway, back at the ranch, timing is everything. If the Spurs can be made to put Leonard on the table, he's an option right now. Otherwise, the dominoes could fall in a way that removes him from the list of options. If Lebron comes, he is not waiting for 2019. He is going to expect things to happen now. Keeping a streamlined roster for next summer is theoretically possible, but it may not be compatible with signing Lebron in the here and now. If Lebron does not come, then all sorts of options open up for next summer, and a lot of the cap space gymnastics may not even be necessary. |
I don’t disagree with you. How do you see it playing out? Still refraining from giving it a read? Still too early for you to see? Just curious.
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Purp 32
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 2154
Location: Inglewood, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Holy Hell, lol. This thread is a disaster. July 1st can't come soon enough. |
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Zubolo
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Joined: 09 Jun 2017
Posts: 402
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | Ziggy wrote: | | Zubolo wrote: | | Jsthornton7 wrote: | | lakerdynasty5.0 wrote: | Great work Zubolo! Based on your analysis, it not only appears possible to land KL next year, but also somewhat intriguing to PG13 and LBJ/
I do believe LBJ has to "show" that he's willing to take one (or rather take less) for the team! Only then will some of us (me included) who are not huge fans of his, may turn around...
| Zubolo wrote: | | lakersfan32 wrote: | | How do the Lakers get Kawhi next year if they sign Lebron and PG this year? |
This is how the Lakers can sign Lebron, PG, retain the bulk of their youth while creating enough flexibility to land Kawhi in 2019 if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us:
It would however come with a few sacrifices from the big 3. Consider it a small cost for the chance at history. The key is to offload Deng's contract at ALL costs! At all costs, I mean ideally 2 first round picks and a second round pick.
Lebron essentially gets the max in year 1 (a 1+1 deal) but would have to opt out in year 2 and take about $5m less to play with Kawhi. Again, this is ONLY if the Spurs refuse to trade him to us and Lebron wants to play with Kawhi. If the Spurs trade him to us, Lebron can pick up his second year option at an additional $35m
PG13 would have to consider a 2+1 deal, where he opts out in 2020 and signs the 10 year veteran rate (35% of cap space). PG would have to take a $1m pay cut in year one with a salary that reduces by 5% annually in order to make space for Kawhi. It would look something like this:
Year 1 = ~ $29m
Year 2 = ~$27.5m
Year 3 = ~26.1m (player option)
Year 3 is just for insurance if he signs a 2+1 deal as described above.
This allows us to keep Randle and at worst offer a package of Ingram and Randle for Kawhi. If the Spurs don't agree to this even past the trade deadline, we still have leverage to sign Kawhi once he's a free agent. That threat alone might make them settle into dealing with us. It breaks down as follows:
2019 Salary Cap $108,000,000.00
1 Kawhi ................................................ $30,300,000
2 Paul George ...................................... $27,515,000
3 Lonzo Ball................................................ $8,719,320
4 Lebron.................................................... $30,219,374
5 Kyle Kuzma.............................................. $1,974,600
6 Josh Hart.................................................. $1,934,160
7 2018 Cleveland 1st (25th pick)................... $1,978,200
8 Thomas Bryant Cap Hold............................ $1,803,638
9 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
10 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
11 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
12 Minimum Roster Hold $888,927
Total $108,000,000
Ingram and Randle would have to be traded for two future lottery picks to an up and coming team with cap space. The key is to keep Randle at a contract where he's trade worthy (I have that somewhere around $17m/yr).
If more money is needed to accommodate the big 3, we can consider letting go of T Bryant but I personally like his potential.
I will keep repeating this post from time to time till I somehow 'speak it into existence'!! |
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I think the issue with this is that Lebron has already taken less money in Miami and he was one of the main people as VP of the players union to fight for these salaries. I think it would be a big FU to all the players if he took less money again, but who knows.. it’s a great theory. |
True. Once again though its about maintaining FLEXIBILITY and providing a THREAT to the rest of the league signaling NOT to trade for Kawhi because he WILL walk and we do have the space for him.
Whether Lebron takes less to accommodate Kawhi and form a big three with himself and PG would ultimately be his choice unfortunately. However, if the Warriors 3peat, I cannot see a world in which he doesn't.
To add to the argument regarding the players union, how is CP3 going to recruit Lebron to the Rockets without both players, who just so happen to be President and VP theoretically not taking a pay cut? Even if Daryl Morey scorched earth and traded most of their assets, including Ryan Anderson, they would both have to take some sort of pay cut to make it work. I don't really buy the players union narrative, especially if it comes to a few dollars here and there. One could argue about the wink-wink deal CP3 made by turning down the Clippers offer, theoretically 'taking less' in order to be traded to the Rockets. Just saying. |
Zubolo, I appreciate the time you put into breaking down the numbers in your post. The problem is it all hinges on Lebron agreeing to a 1+1 without any guarantee that Kawhi would actually sign here next summer.
What happens if Kawhi returns to play for the Spurs next season and he looks like 50% of the player he was? Would we even want him?
What if he gets traded to Boston and, God forbid, they win a championship next season? Would Kawhi walk away from that?
There are just way too many unknowns for Lebron to take that risk at this stage of his career. He'll be turning 34 next season. As we all saw with Kobe, who was still playing at an elite level before his achilles injury, things can all change in an instant once you hit your 30's. One wrong step, and it could all be over. |
But unlike Zu you’re offering zero solutions. I too respect Zu for the outline, but I mostly respect him for offering a solution and not just complaining about problems. Too much of that exists in the world, this board included.
If you’re going to critique a vision, at least offer an alternative plan. It’s just too easy to do that, especially when someone has, obviously, invested some time in outlining his. |
Appreciate it Joe!
Ziggy, to address your concern though, like I said it's all dependent on whether Lebron wants to play with Kawhi and thus create the flexibility to sign him. Basically you provide him the scenarios and let him decide.
The idea is that should Kawhi go back on his intent to join the Lakers in 2019, then we can re-sign Lebron to a long term deal after he opts out of the 1+1.. probably at max value.
Given Lebron's history of signing 1+1 contracts in recent years and the fact that he probably still is the best player in the game, I trust he's secure enough to take his chances. |
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ChefLinda
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
Posts: 24166
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Let's stick to basketball arguments here and leave the off-topic discussion for a more appropriate forum. Thanks. |
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Zubolo
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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Ziggy, to add to the fact that Lebron could trust the Lakers to honor a longer term contract after he signs a 1+1 deal, the Lakers can reference how they honored Kobe even after a torn achilles. Not too many teams can exemplify that level of commitment to marquee players.
It would be one thing if Lebron was trusting Danny Ainge to honor that kind of commitment. Lol |
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Car54
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Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | clutchkobe wrote: | | i get all the pg13 fans love him....but lebron could not beat the warriors with kyrie irving who is 10 times better than pg13. |
I'm pretty sure Lebron did beat the Warriors with Kyrie.
And how is Kyrie 10x better than PG? Remind me again how many times Kyrie led a team to the Conference Finals by himself? Remind me how many times Kyrie has been All-defense? Your assessment focuses on one side of the ball and the divide on offense isn't 10x by any stretch. |
you beat me to it.
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11841
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Lebron did beat the Warriors with Kyrie in 2016 but that was before the arrival of Durant. This Warrior team, if healthy, I think it would take an act of God to beat them. Cleveland didn't have two #2 picks to help out Lebron though. They did have Love but he was hot garbage. If Lonzo and BI panned out, a Lebron/PG13 team would be a better challenge for the Warriors than the 2016 Cleveland team.
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alohalakers
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think Pop is just going to give Kawhi to his former Lieutenant, Brett Brown. Philly has enough ancillary draft picks to give away for a one year rental. Bet it happens over the summer, probably after the Lakers sign their free agents. Pop will want to keep us guessing until then just to play mind games.
Rob and Magic just have to be patient like last year with PG. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe Pesci wrote: | | I don’t disagree with you. How do you see it playing out? Still refraining from giving it a read? Still too early for you to see? Just curious. |
I think the first domino will be Paul George. If he decides to stay in OKC, then it affects Lebron's decision. Without George, Lebron might stay in Cleveland or go somewhere else. As of right now, I view Paul George as a coin flip. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet on him coming here. We'll know in a week or two. |
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dao
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Joined: 02 Jan 2013
Posts: 5572
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| [Deleted. See CL's warning. - LS] |
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Lakerz113
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Joined: 15 Mar 2015
Posts: 2445
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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I took Rob's comment about not ruining the future as...we will not trade young assets for KL.
Ever since he said that I have stopped following the KL drama. |
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TDRock
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Location: LA to the Bay
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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shocking |
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epak
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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I thought trades within conferences didn't happen. But Kyrie and CP3 ended up in the same conference last year. Who knows.
The other crazy idea as mentioned by our dear Team Barbers brother is the idea of guys taking pay cuts. Again, who knows. |
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Lakerz113
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Joined: 15 Mar 2015
Posts: 2445
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | I thought trades within conferences didn't happen. But Kyrie and CP3 ended up in the same conference last year. Who knows.
The other crazy idea as mentioned by our dear Team Barbers brother is the idea of guys taking pay cuts. Again, who knows. |
You know guys around the league like Chris Paul want a ring before they retire and with the warriors super team, I wouldn't be shocked to see some discounted contracts. Not saying Paul is signing here just saying I could see some championship hungry vets taking a pay cut. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | | epak wrote: | I thought trades within conferences didn't happen. But Kyrie and CP3 ended up in the same conference last year. Who knows.
The other crazy idea as mentioned by our dear Team Barbers brother is the idea of guys taking pay cuts. Again, who knows. |
You know guys around the league like Chris Paul want a ring before they retire and with the warriors super team, I wouldn't be shocked to see some discounted contracts. Not saying Paul is signing here just saying I could see some championship hungry vets taking a pay cut. |
A part of me also thinks the Lakers reached out to the Spurs, just to make it seem like they don't have lebron and PG in the bag.  |
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SDLakersFan
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Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 2044
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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I like what San Antonio is doing. Very old school. You want a trade? Cool, well trade you where we want to. Not sending you to a conference rival (like Irving) or to a team with your buddies. I’m tired of all these teams loading up in the West (Golden State, Houston, OKC, Minnesota) while the East is a yellow brick road leading to the finals for Lebron.
I hope they send him to Philly. Atleast then there’s atleast 3 competitive teams in the East with Boston & Cleveland being the other 2. |
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epak
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: | I like what San Antonio is doing. Very old school. You want a trade? Cool, well trade you where we want to. Not sending you to a conference rival (like Irving) or to a team with your buddies. I’m tired of all these teams loading up in the West (Golden State, Houston, OKC, Minnesota) while the East is a yellow brick road leading to the finals for Lebron.
I hope they send him to Philly. Atleast then there’s atleast 3 competitive teams in the East with Boston & Cleveland being the other 2. |
Hopefully Cavs aren't competitive next year  |
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JerryWest_44
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | I don’t disagree with you. How do you see it playing out? Still refraining from giving it a read? Still too early for you to see? Just curious. |
I think the first domino will be Paul George. If he decides to stay in OKC, then it affects Lebron's decision. Without George, Lebron might stay in Cleveland or go somewhere else. As of right now, I view Paul George as a coin flip. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet on him coming here. We'll know in a week or two. |
I think Carmelo opting in OKC tips the scales to LA ... |
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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7158
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| I think LJ has to be the first domino. We can only speculate that PG would be attractive to LJ. Nobody really knows. I think he is the 1st to agree on the condition that he gets to pick his sidekicks with the FO. I think its important for LJ to be signed because that is where players will come to us at a discount. PG does not come close to doing that for us. |
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Palin
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 1809
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| I still can't believe Lebron gonna be Laker. Most of us hated this guy and supported his opponents at finals. I mean i like to have him but i can't deny feeling very weird about it. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| JerryWest_44 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | I don’t disagree with you. How do you see it playing out? Still refraining from giving it a read? Still too early for you to see? Just curious. |
I think the first domino will be Paul George. If he decides to stay in OKC, then it affects Lebron's decision. Without George, Lebron might stay in Cleveland or go somewhere else. As of right now, I view Paul George as a coin flip. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet on him coming here. We'll know in a week or two. |
I think Carmelo opting in OKC tips the scales to LA ... |
It would have been a surprise if Carmelo had opted out, so I don't know that anything changed when he opted in. However, Carmelo's contract limits OKC's ability to do anything to upgrade the roster, so in that sense you're right. I don't see any rational reason why George would stay in OKC, but these decisions are not always perfectly rational. |
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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Lakerz113 wrote: | | epak wrote: | I thought trades within conferences didn't happen. But Kyrie and CP3 ended up in the same conference last year. Who knows.
The other crazy idea as mentioned by our dear Team Barbers brother is the idea of guys taking pay cuts. Again, who knows. |
You know guys around the league like Chris Paul want a ring before they retire and with the warriors super team, I wouldn't be shocked to see some discounted contracts. Not saying Paul is signing here just saying I could see some championship hungry vets taking a pay cut. |
Paul took a paycut last year.
You’re right though. With the atmosphere swirling around the Warriors and the manner in which Draymond Green is practically bragging about his paycut, I can DEFINITELY see James and George taking a small one. Like I said, Paul already has, and he’s the Player’s Association Prez who has also sworn against it.
Guys are quickly realizing that the only way to beat them (Golden State) is to join them (sacrifice a little money to build historically great teams).
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legend825
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Joined: 12 Jun 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: |
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| When did Paul take a paycut last year? |
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Joe Pesci
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Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 3885
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryWest_44 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | Joe Pesci wrote: | | I don’t disagree with you. How do you see it playing out? Still refraining from giving it a read? Still too early for you to see? Just curious. |
I think the first domino will be Paul George. If he decides to stay in OKC, then it affects Lebron's decision. Without George, Lebron might stay in Cleveland or go somewhere else. As of right now, I view Paul George as a coin flip. If I had to bet on it, I'd bet on him coming here. We'll know in a week or two. |
I think Carmelo opting in OKC tips the scales to LA ... |
It would have been a surprise if Carmelo had opted out, so I don't know that anything changed when he opted in. However, Carmelo's contract limits OKC's ability to do anything to upgrade the roster, so in that sense you're right. I don't see any rational reason why George would stay in OKC, but these decisions are not always perfectly rational. |
I feel you Hunter. I guess our levels of perception are just different. Don’t let reports fool you, and don’t let his story when he signs here that “it was very hard leaving OKC” fool you. George is and always was been coming here. These reports are merely to somehow soften the PR blow.
He’s signing, no doubt in my mind. I’m curious what the next “domino” is after George and James will be?
The way I see it, it’ll be Randle. If Dallas wants him badly, I think the Lakers acquiesce. But if he’s another lonely and frustrated RFA, the Lakers will easily resign him at their price (at or under his caphold) or force him into taking the qualifying offer.
The next step is Deng. Atlanta takes him for two or three draft picks.
Now when it comes to actually isigning James and George after Randle is resolved, the Leonard situation is addressed by presenting to them the benefits of taking a four million dollar haircut.
If they bite, fantastic. They’ll still be in the running for Leonard next year if Randle is traded (or Ball and Ingram). If they’re not with it, fine. You ride off into the sunset with no Leonard.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| RI Laker wrote: | | I think LJ has to be the first domino. We can only speculate that PG would be attractive to LJ. Nobody really knows. I think he is the 1st to agree on the condition that he gets to pick his sidekicks with the FO. I think its important for LJ to be signed because that is where players will come to us at a discount. PG does not come close to doing that for us. |
I see the logic, but I think George will be the first domino to fall. Lebron will take his time. If George stays, then the options become limited. Durant isn't coming. Chris Paul is unlikely. The Spurs control Leonard. Lebron will know that the Lakers are not a contender next year, so we would not be an appealing destination from a basketball perspective (family and business interests may override this, but who knows?).
If George comes, then Lebron probably tries to get the front office committed to adding a third piece. I see people assuming that Lebron would come here with George and the kids, but that is less than a sure thing. No matter what you think the kids may become down the road, as of right now none of them (other than Randle) are average quality NBA players. I don't think Lebron is coming to LA to see if the kids develop. It's not impossible, but that has not been his modus operandi. |
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