Kawhi Leonard to LA? (Math to Sign KL in 2019, p. 1; BREAKING: Traded to Toronto for DeRozan; p. 538; Haynes: Has no desire to play in Toronto; P. 554)
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject:

gladofwar_xiii wrote:
I don't understand that ''Kawhi will sign us next summer anyway'' thing. If Kawhi joins Celtics or 76ers that team will get NBA finals easily and have good chance to beat Warriors. They would win atleast 2 games even if they lose but still people thinks he will leave that team (Celtics/76ers) and join Lakers. No man he won't and that means if Lakers give Ingram+Kuzma+Picks for Kawhi, it won't be just for one year. Just give these young guys seriously.


No way I'm trading BI/Kuz/picks for a possible 1 year rental of KL, who we don't know is actually healthy enough to play NBA basketball at his previous levels.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject:

No Team USA, no training camp, no Spurs for KL. The Spurs should have kept everything quiet (and realized KL was done). Totally misplayed their hand. Now they are going to take it in the shorts.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject:

People going "well Kawhi could sign with the Celtics or the 76ers and not sign with us in free agency."

Kawhi could also leave us in free agency anyway and then we don't have Kawhi or BI.


If you could pick one
No Kawhi with the potential of Kawhi + BI the next off-season


Kawhi with the potential of no Kawhi or BI the next off-season


Which do you pick?

Kawhi is a potential one year rental for any other team in the league, including us.

And we STILL don't know if he's healthy yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
I don't understand that ''Kawhi will sign us next summer anyway'' thing. If Kawhi joins Celtics or 76ers that team will get NBA finals easily and have good chance to beat Warriors. They would win atleast 2 games even if they lose but still people thinks he will leave that team (Celtics/76ers) and join Lakers. No man he won't and that means if Lakers give Ingram+Kuzma+Picks for Kawhi, it won't be just for one year. Just give these young guys seriously.


No way I'm trading BI/Kuz/picks for a possible 1 year rental of KL, who we don't know is actually healthy enough to play NBA basketball at his previous levels.


Why y'all thinking about his health? Even if he is not healthy now, he will be healthy after 1-2 months right? If you have Lebron, season starts at playoffs and he will be healthy enough on playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject:

He already wants to leave a team with which he won a championship and that would be a contender with him. He won't be dazzled if he gets traded to a winning team.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:38 am    Post subject:

gladofwar_xiii wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
I don't understand that ''Kawhi will sign us next summer anyway'' thing. If Kawhi joins Celtics or 76ers that team will get NBA finals easily and have good chance to beat Warriors. They would win atleast 2 games even if they lose but still people thinks he will leave that team (Celtics/76ers) and join Lakers. No man he won't and that means if Lakers give Ingram+Kuzma+Picks for Kawhi, it won't be just for one year. Just give these young guys seriously.


No way I'm trading BI/Kuz/picks for a possible 1 year rental of KL, who we don't know is actually healthy enough to play NBA basketball at his previous levels.


Why y'all thinking about his health? Even if he is not healthy now, he will be healthy after 1-2 months right? If you have Lebron, season starts at playoffs and he will be healthy enough on playoffs.


No. The problem is no one knows. He hasn't played any NBA basketball for close to a year.

And we can't stand to wait for him to get healthy (if ever) and lose BI/Kuz/picks.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.


that pressure kind of goes both ways....would be a nightmare for the Spurs who are in transition to also try to bring him to camp or put him on the home court.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

He will end up in LA whether prior to this season or next summer.

Lakers or Clippers. If that wasnít the case, Boston and Philadelphia would already have him. They are both probably still willing to acquire him but due to the LA thing they wonít offer up Fultz, Brown or Tatum.

Tbh this injury thing is a red flag. Feels like the spurs know something too so buyer beware.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.


that pressure kind of goes both ways....would be a nightmare for the Spurs who are in transition to also try to bring him to camp or put him on the home court.


It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.

I am not a betting man - but I do think he is traded before the TC starts
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.


that pressure kind of goes both ways....would be a nightmare for the Spurs who are in transition to also try to bring him to camp or put him on the home court.


Not at all. We had no problem doing just that with Kobe in the fall of 2007.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
I don't understand that ''Kawhi will sign us next summer anyway'' thing. If Kawhi joins Celtics or 76ers that team will get NBA finals easily and have good chance to beat Warriors. They would win atleast 2 games even if they lose but still people thinks he will leave that team (Celtics/76ers) and join Lakers. No man he won't and that means if Lakers give Ingram+Kuzma+Picks for Kawhi, it won't be just for one year. Just give these young guys seriously.


No way I'm trading BI/Kuz/picks for a possible 1 year rental of KL, who we don't know is actually healthy enough to play NBA basketball at his previous levels.


Why y'all thinking about his health? Even if he is not healthy now, he will be healthy after 1-2 months right? If you have Lebron, season starts at playoffs and he will be healthy enough on playoffs.


No. The problem is no one knows. He hasn't played any NBA basketball for close to a year.

And we can't stand to wait for him to get healthy (if ever) and lose BI/Kuz/picks.


There is almost 1 year till 2019 playoffs, this time is enough to get his form back. I don't expect him to play like full perform at the early season but playoffs season is the main goal.
But maybe you are right i don't know i like Kawhi man i would rather get him over Kuzma+Ingram+PG+Butler.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject:

gladofwar_xiii wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
gladofwar_xiii wrote:
I don't understand that ''Kawhi will sign us next summer anyway'' thing. If Kawhi joins Celtics or 76ers that team will get NBA finals easily and have good chance to beat Warriors. They would win atleast 2 games even if they lose but still people thinks he will leave that team (Celtics/76ers) and join Lakers. No man he won't and that means if Lakers give Ingram+Kuzma+Picks for Kawhi, it won't be just for one year. Just give these young guys seriously.


No way I'm trading BI/Kuz/picks for a possible 1 year rental of KL, who we don't know is actually healthy enough to play NBA basketball at his previous levels.


Why y'all thinking about his health? Even if he is not healthy now, he will be healthy after 1-2 months right? If you have Lebron, season starts at playoffs and he will be healthy enough on playoffs.


No. The problem is no one knows. He hasn't played any NBA basketball for close to a year.

And we can't stand to wait for him to get healthy (if ever) and lose BI/Kuz/picks.


There is almost 1 year till 2019 playoffs, this time is enough to get his form back. I don't expect him to play like full perform at the early season but playoffs season is the main goal.
But maybe you are right i don't know i like Kawhi man i would rather get him over Kuzma+Ingram+PG+Butler.


You're missing the big picture.

I prefer KL (or a max FA) + BI/Kuz/picks.

It's not that i don't want the player, just want the depth too.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.


Thatís a disaster scenario for Leonard. He would hit free agency without playing regularly for two years. I canít imagine any team offering him a long term max deal under those circumstances.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject:

gladofwar_xiii wrote:

Why y'all thinking about his health? Even if he is not healthy now, he will be healthy after 1-2 months right? If you have Lebron, season starts at playoffs and he will be healthy enough on playoffs.


This is Myotosis Ossificans, the injury Kawhi's docs believe he has:

https://www.centralphysicaltherapy.com/Injuries-Conditions/Muscle-Injury/Muscle-Injury-Issues/Myositis-Ossificans/a~8610/article.html

Some highlights to the article as to how it lines up with Kawhi's saga:

Quad Injury Announced Feb. 7, 2017:

MO occurs in the skeletal muscles of the body, and most often in the large muscles of the upper and lower extremities, such as the biceps of the upper arm or the quadriceps muscle of the thigh

Returned to play in the Play-offs:

There are a few factors that increase the likelihood of MO forming. These include having sustained a more severe injury, a severe loss of range of motion after the injury, injuries that are massaged too aggressively early on in their healing, injuries that are subject to aggressive activity before they are ready, and injuries that get re-injured before they have fully healed.

Because MO is not considered to have arisen until actual bone formation (calcification) has occurred, MO is generally not diagnosed until a minimum of 2 weeks after an injury, as this is the least amount of time it takes for bone formation to occur and to be seen on plain x-ray.

Sep. 30 Spurs announce diagnosis of Tendinopathy:


Leading up to the bone formation, the symptoms of MO present initially as the typical symptoms of a muscle injury, and include pain, a limited range of motion, weakness, and bruising in the area or down the limb.

November 2017 Pop expects Kawhi to be back "sooner rather than later"
December 2017 Kawhi is still complaining of weakness:


By the time bone formation has occurred, symptoms may include...weakness of the muscle, and ongoing pain.

Jan. 2018 Kawhi seeks medical opinion outside Spurs:

MO can develop due to poor or aggressive care of an injury,

and is shut down for the season:

Rest from aggravating activities will be an important part of treatment...will advise you against any activity that brings on pain.

May 2018.Rumors that Pop wants Kawhi to play 10 games before offering Supermax:

Over time the body usually either naturally reabsorbs the boney tissue that has formed or the boney tissue remains present but full range of motion and strength is gained and the body just works around the now permanent boney tissue within the muscle. In some unfortunate cases, despite appropriate rehabilitation, pain in the muscle remains and range of motion and strength cannot be progressed....surgical treatment will need to be considered
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:55 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.


that pressure kind of goes both ways....would be a nightmare for the Spurs who are in transition to also try to bring him to camp or put him on the home court.


Not at all. We had no problem doing just that with Kobe in the fall of 2007.


I know you do not believe that....."not at all"? It would be a question in every press conference....every player would be asked daily....San Antonio is a small market that is not built to handle that type drama in my opinion.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
I have no inside info but I donít believe the reports that said he would resign in philly... woj said nothing had changed, la lakers or clippers. I bet his girlfriend or wife wants to get back to San Diego and philly wonít meet that checklist.


Donít underestimate the amount of pressure Kawhi has put on himself. It would be a nightmare for him to go to training camp with the Spurs, much less play regular season games. The talk about the Spurs waiting until the trade deadline must be unsettling to Kawhi.


that pressure kind of goes both ways....would be a nightmare for the Spurs who are in transition to also try to bring him to camp or put him on the home court.


Not at all. We had no problem doing just that with Kobe in the fall of 2007.


Kobe wasn't going to be a free agent until like 2012. Lakers had time.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject:

If I was Kawhi, I would show up to training camp and say "I'm saying this once and this one time only. My intention is to leave the San Antonio Spurs at the end of the season. Until the time I am traded or the season is over, I will ne a professional, I will meet the obligations of my contract to this team and I will give 110% for this team every time I step on the court. However, management knows my position and so it is up to them to decide what to do knowing I will no longer be a Spur under any circumstances after this season. That is all."
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ESPNLosAngeles/status/1016721628032425984?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

This guy thinks we are still in play to land Kawhi


That's not what the tweet says. All it says is that Kawhi would still like to be a Laker. Stop trying so hard to find rumors.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.


Thatís a disaster scenario for Leonard. He would hit free agency without playing regularly for two years. I canít imagine any team offering him a long term max deal under those circumstances.


Not necessarily. It is a question of forcing an issue and see who blinks first. Teams always do - it is much greater risk for them, Spurs is no exception
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.


Thatís a disaster scenario for Leonard. He would hit free agency without playing regularly for two years. I canít imagine any team offering him a long term max deal under those circumstances.


Not necessarily. It is a question of forcing an issue and see who blinks first. Teams always do - it is much greater risk for them, Spurs is no exception


your sig
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.


Thatís a disaster scenario for Leonard. He would hit free agency without playing regularly for two years. I canít imagine any team offering him a long term max deal under those circumstances.


Not necessarily. It is a question of forcing an issue and see who blinks first. Teams always do - it is much greater risk for them, Spurs is no exception


your sig


I am waiting for Melo' saga to be over with - so I will change it to read:

Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 am    Post subject:

golakersgo121 wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
golakersgo121 wrote:
It is relatively easy - to relieve this pressure (both ways): Kawhi can keep going through with his "recovery process" on individual schedule.


Thatís a disaster scenario for Leonard. He would hit free agency without playing regularly for two years. I canít imagine any team offering him a long term max deal under those circumstances.


Not necessarily. It is a question of forcing an issue and see who blinks first. Teams always do - it is much greater risk for them, Spurs is no exception


your sig


I am waiting for Melo' saga to be over with - so I will change it to read:

Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13



4sho
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
If I was Kawhi, I would show up to training camp and say "I'm saying this once and this one time only. My intention is to leave the San Antonio Spurs at the end of the season. Until the time I am traded or the season is over, I will ne a professional, I will meet the obligations of my contract to this team and I will give 110% for this team every time I step on the court. However, management knows my position and so it is up to them to decide what to do knowing I will no longer be a Spur under any circumstances after this season. That is all."


Why wait until training camp? He could likely get trade talks re-energized if he could show he is healthy and near the player he was. A ďleakedĒ work out video would do wonders. Show us some lateral quickness and shooting drills. Doing sprints? And maybe more importantly the recovery time the next day.

Maybe Iím just too cynical but Iím thinking his injury is worse and more career altering then he is letting on. My biggest concern still remains a ďhealthyĒ Leonard will be enticing to trade for but a ďhealthyĒ Leonard may still have long term lingering effects.

How much are you giving up and then paying a diminished Leonard that misses significant time? The descriptions I have seen discuss risk of re-injury due to repeated use and intense activity. Like a long NBA season? Is he worth the risk if the 20 games he misses are the playoffs? Or if he rushes back for the playoffs too soon?

I need some evidence he still is and can still be the dynamic player we all remember before I am willing to risk valuable assets on the very real possibility he will never consistently be that player again.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:48 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
People going "well Kawhi could sign with the Celtics or the 76ers and not sign with us in free agency."

Kawhi could also leave us in free agency anyway and then we don't have Kawhi or BI.


If you could pick one
No Kawhi with the potential of Kawhi + BI the next off-season


Kawhi with the potential of no Kawhi or BI the next off-season


Which do you pick?

Kawhi is a potential one year rental for any other team in the league, including us.

And we STILL don't know if he's healthy yet.



The difference being that his team is leaking that he wants L.A.
But the 2 issues you mention are things to definitely consider.

1. Is Kawhi healthy? Is an 80% Kawhi better than BI? I'm on the side that would think a less than 100% Kwahi is not better than a 100% BI. But a 100% Kawhi is better than a 100% BI at this stage in their careers. Regarding the future? Who knows.
2. Will Kawhi enjoy his time here and then actually re-sign? Although his team has stated that he wants L.A., who knows what their thinking will be at the end of the year. And is losing one of our young'ns worth that risk?

I dont think these 2 issues are something to just gloss over and I don't think we have as it's been discussed before. I'm 50/50. I have no problem with waiting and I have no problem with going for it.
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