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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would not be required to pay his salary. |
Good luck with that Dr. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The Spurs aren't intentionally keep Kawhi out from playing.
If Kawhi is healthy, they're going to make him play and he'll just have to endure. If he isn't healthy, than it tells other teams all they need to know. |
easy in theory.....nearly impossible in practice. If he says he is injured, their only option would be to sue to contract breach, and good luck getting a good free agent in the next few decades. |
It would not go down that way under the CBA, but I will spare you the details because I don't see it playing out that way. Anyway, if Leonard pulled a stunt like that, I think it would have zero impact on future free agents. In fact, I think most players would make public statements of support for Leonard, but in private would be shaking their heads at him. |
I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would win not paying $20 mil for Leonard not to play and Leonard would win the reputation as a malingerer.
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| pain is subjective |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | pain is subjective |
Related to toughness being subjective. Which would an NBA player want to be remembered for?
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The Spurs aren't intentionally keep Kawhi out from playing.
If Kawhi is healthy, they're going to make him play and he'll just have to endure. If he isn't healthy, than it tells other teams all they need to know. |
easy in theory.....nearly impossible in practice. If he says he is injured, their only option would be to sue to contract breach, and good luck getting a good free agent in the next few decades. |
It would not go down that way under the CBA, but I will spare you the details because I don't see it playing out that way. Anyway, if Leonard pulled a stunt like that, I think it would have zero impact on future free agents. In fact, I think most players would make public statements of support for Leonard, but in private would be shaking their heads at him. |
I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would win not paying $20 mil for Leonard not to play and Leonard would win the reputation as a malingerer. |
$20 Million is not worth putting the organization through that ugly process. |
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golakersgo121
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Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The Spurs aren't intentionally keep Kawhi out from playing.
If Kawhi is healthy, they're going to make him play and he'll just have to endure. If he isn't healthy, than it tells other teams all they need to know. |
easy in theory.....nearly impossible in practice. If he says he is injured, their only option would be to sue to contract breach, and good luck getting a good free agent in the next few decades. |
It would not go down that way under the CBA, but I will spare you the details because I don't see it playing out that way. Anyway, if Leonard pulled a stunt like that, I think it would have zero impact on future free agents. In fact, I think most players would make public statements of support for Leonard, but in private would be shaking their heads at him. |
I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would win not paying $20 mil for Leonard not to play and Leonard would win the reputation as a malingerer. |
$20 Million is not worth putting the organization through that ugly process. |
And they won't. They have no chance of winning that battle. Any player can use their own doctor and claim injury without announcing that they withhold their services. That's what media calls 'sitting out'...
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| golakersgo121 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The Spurs aren't intentionally keep Kawhi out from playing.
If Kawhi is healthy, they're going to make him play and he'll just have to endure. If he isn't healthy, than it tells other teams all they need to know. |
easy in theory.....nearly impossible in practice. If he says he is injured, their only option would be to sue to contract breach, and good luck getting a good free agent in the next few decades. |
It would not go down that way under the CBA, but I will spare you the details because I don't see it playing out that way. Anyway, if Leonard pulled a stunt like that, I think it would have zero impact on future free agents. In fact, I think most players would make public statements of support for Leonard, but in private would be shaking their heads at him. |
I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would win not paying $20 mil for Leonard not to play and Leonard would win the reputation as a malingerer. |
$20 Million is not worth putting the organization through that ugly process. |
And they won't. They have no chance of winning that battle. Any player can use their own doctor and claim injury without announcing that they withhold their services. That's what media calls 'sitting out'... |
And that player cuts his own NBA throat.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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^^^what exactly is an "NBA throat"? 
In the end....if you have the talent and are healthy, a team will pay for it. Teams will not refuse to sign Kawhi because of anything that is taking place with the Spurs as long as they think he is healthy. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Teams lacking a moral compass likely would love to sign a malingering player if he has talent even with the threat of injury. We saw that recently with Cousins.
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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:03 am Post subject: |
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If it would go to a standoff, then perhaps an independent set of Doctors. If he is deemed unable to play by the independent Doctors, then he probably isn't going to get Max offers next summer.
If he decides to take retirement for a season, then it will be difficult for a team to justify signing him to a Max because he will have played very little for two seasons.
If Leonard and his posse think that he can just refuse to play and still get paid, then...
| Quote: |
Section 3. Withholding Services.
A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract
for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have “complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder.”
Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not
be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other
professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the
player last played expressly agrees otherwise.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | If it would go to a standoff, then perhaps an independent set of Doctors. If he is deemed unable to play by the independent Doctors, then he probably isn't going to get Max offers next summer.
If he decides to take retirement for a season, then it will be difficult for a team to justify signing him to a Max because he will have played very little for two seasons.
If Leonard and his posse think that he can just refuse to play and still get paid, then...
| Quote: |
Section 3. Withholding Services.
A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract
for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have “complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder.”
Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not
be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other
professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the
player last played expressly agrees otherwise.
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If he claims retirement wouldn’t he be subject to a vote of all the teams to return?
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Bard207
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Joined: 08 Jan 2013
Posts: 7713
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | If it would go to a standoff, then perhaps an independent set of Doctors. If he is deemed unable to play by the independent Doctors, then he probably isn't going to get Max offers next summer.
If he decides to take retirement for a season, then it will be difficult for a team to justify signing him to a Max because he will have played very little for two seasons.
If Leonard and his posse think that he can just refuse to play and still get paid, then...
| Quote: |
Section 3. Withholding Services.
A player who withholds playing services called for by a Player Contract
for more than thirty (30) days after the start of the last Season covered by his Player Contract shall be deemed not to have “complet[ed] his Player Contract by rendering the playing services called for thereunder.”
Accordingly, such a player shall not be a Veteran Free Agent and shall not
be entitled to negotiate or sign a Player Contract with any other
professional basketball team unless and until the Team for which the
player last played expressly agrees otherwise.
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If he claims retirement wouldn’t he be subject to a vote of all the teams to return? |
The vote would be required if he wants to come back sooner than one year from the date of his retirement.
61. What are the rules for retired players? What if the player suffers a career-ending injury?
| Quote: |
There's nothing binding about a player announcing his retirement. The player can still sign a new contract and continue playing (if he's not under contract), or return to his team (if he is still under contract) and resume his career.
The only exception to this is when a player is still under contract, wants to quit, and his team doesn't want to let him out of his contract. Under these circumstances the player can file for retirement with the league. The player is placed on the league's Voluntarily Retired list (see question number 79), forgoes his remaining salary, and cannot return to the league for one year. The latter requirement prevents players from using retirement as an underhanded way to change teams, and can be overridden with unanimous approval from all 30 teams. For example, guard Jason Williams signed with the LA Clippers in August 2008, then changed his mind the following month, announcing his retirement. He applied for reinstatement in early 2009, but his request was denied by a vote of 24-6. Williams later signed with the Orlando Magic once the one-year anniversary of his retirement announcement had passed.
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We are already at mid July and if they wait until September - October to chose retirement, then waiting until September - October 2019 to come back out of retirement and get a contract with another team such as the Lakers would be a pain in the neck for all involved. The cap space would have to be kept open for a few months rather than just for the traditional early - mid July period.
Few good options for the Spurs and possibly Leonard since he would give up his 2018 - 19 salary ($20.1 million) if he chooses retirement to avoid playing for the Spurs again.
All of this is out of the ordinary and I wouldn't try to predict what happens. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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spurs: we want ingram, kuz, 2 1st and 2 1st swaps.
kawhi: trade me to lakers now for 2 1st and deng or i am retiring on august 1 so i can come back aug 2019!
spurs to magic - we will take deng and 2 1st
magic: thanks kawhi
it would feel nice to step on pop's throat
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noahp45
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 6572
Location: Oceanside Ca
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Love they still got KL.
It means he is getting angry and the spurs are getting offered g league players now |
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trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Teams lacking a moral compass likely would love to sign a malingering player if he has talent even with the threat of injury. We saw that recently with Cousins. |
Did Bob Myers piss in your cereal |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | spurs: we want ingram, kuz, 2 1st and 2 1st swaps.
kawhi: trade me to lakers now for 2 1st and deng or i am retiring on august 1 so i can come back aug 2019!
spurs to magic - we will take deng and 2 1st
magic: thanks kawhi
it would feel nice to step on pop's throat
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Right, pissing away $20 mil is such a great idea. But it isn't your money, right?
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Teams lacking a moral compass likely would love to sign a malingering player if he has talent even with the threat of injury. We saw that recently with Cousins. |
Did Bob Myers piss in your cereal |
The Warriors are the Gold Standard in the NBA, I can see why they gambled on Cousins, their locker room is mature enough to not be poisoned by his nonsense. He will be on his best behavior trying to get paid next season. But he will never get those malingering years in Sacramento back.
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | spurs: we want ingram, kuz, 2 1st and 2 1st swaps.
kawhi: trade me to lakers now for 2 1st and deng or i am retiring on august 1 so i can come back aug 2019!
spurs to magic - we will take deng and 2 1st
magic: thanks kawhi
it would feel nice to step on pop's throat
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Right, pissing away $20 mil is such a great idea. But it isn't your money, right? |
U know he was joking right? |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144472
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | spurs: we want ingram, kuz, 2 1st and 2 1st swaps.
kawhi: trade me to lakers now for 2 1st and deng or i am retiring on august 1 so i can come back aug 2019!
spurs to magic - we will take deng and 2 1st
magic: thanks kawhi
it would feel nice to step on pop's throat
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Right, pissing away $20 mil is such a great idea. But it isn't your money, right? |
U know he was joking right? |
No, because he has been posting the same thing throughout this thread.
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Nash Vegas
Star Player
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Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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PJ Carlesimo, former Spurs assistant coach, on TV during the Lakers game saying Lakers should trade for Kwahi now
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cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Jesusdelonla wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | spurs: we want ingram, kuz, 2 1st and 2 1st swaps.
kawhi: trade me to lakers now for 2 1st and deng or i am retiring on august 1 so i can come back aug 2019!
spurs to magic - we will take deng and 2 1st
magic: thanks kawhi
it would feel nice to step on pop's throat
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Right, pissing away $20 mil is such a great idea. But it isn't your money, right? |
U know he was joking right? |
it is a joke
but the most fun part is this is the threat counter-threat is something spurs do have to worry about.
love to torment pop before his retirement. |
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epak
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Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | PJ Carlesimo, former Spurs assistant coach, on TV during the Lakers game saying Lakers should trade for Kwahi now |
Good idea.
Where's sprewell? |
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golakersgo121
Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 11717
Location: 8 miles from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | golakersgo121 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | MJST wrote: | The Spurs aren't intentionally keep Kawhi out from playing.
If Kawhi is healthy, they're going to make him play and he'll just have to endure. If he isn't healthy, than it tells other teams all they need to know. |
easy in theory.....nearly impossible in practice. If he says he is injured, their only option would be to sue to contract breach, and good luck getting a good free agent in the next few decades. |
It would not go down that way under the CBA, but I will spare you the details because I don't see it playing out that way. Anyway, if Leonard pulled a stunt like that, I think it would have zero impact on future free agents. In fact, I think most players would make public statements of support for Leonard, but in private would be shaking their heads at him. |
I assume it would enter some form of arbitration? My point stands that it remains mostly a "he said, she said" case if he claims he is injured...it would be a long drawn out process....and what would the Spurs win in the end? |
They would win not paying $20 mil for Leonard not to play and Leonard would win the reputation as a malingerer. |
$20 Million is not worth putting the organization through that ugly process. |
And they won't. They have no chance of winning that battle. Any player can use their own doctor and claim injury without announcing that they withhold their services. That's what media calls 'sitting out'... |
And that player cuts his own NBA throat. |
Then you have seen some NBA players playing in the league with their NBA throats cut. The latest being Kyrie. But don't let it ruin your thought process - carry on...
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Major bullets dodged: DH12 - twice, LMA, Melo - twice, PG-13, DeMar DeRozan. Hit jackpot with DH-12 at the right time |
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mookielala
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | | PJ Carlesimo, former Spurs assistant coach, on TV during the Lakers game saying Lakers should trade for Kwahi now |
Good idea.
Where's sprewell? |
oh damn |
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Jesusdelonla
Franchise Player
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 15430
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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Jeff Ayres is a center playing for the Summer League Lakers. He is also among a very small handful of players who share an agent with...
you guessed it, Kwahi Leonard 😶 |
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