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Vanquish
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 Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Having Porzingis would also make Randle a lot more expendable though. Probably could get good value for Randle in a trade during trade deadline in Feb. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Having Porzingis would also make Randle a lot more expendable though. Probably could get good value for Randle in a trade during trade deadline in Feb. |
Not with Porky rumored to possibly miss all of next season. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | porzingis easily for 2 reasons:
1) His skillset is much harder to find in the nba.
2) Probably going to get into trouble for this  but if we do Mitchell we lose out on Ball. I think Ball's skillset is much harder to find than Dlo.
So for me:
Porzingis+Ball> Dlo+ Mitchell. |
Stretch bigs are a dime a dozen, as are rim defenders. Nice to get both in one package, but again, he’s not really as great as people think at either. The most valuable asset in the league are wings/guards who can break down your defense for themselves and their teammates.
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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Neither because with porzingis we prolly never get Ingram and then ball, also he’s injury prone and overrated. And not Mitchell because I think lonzo will be a better all around and more impactful player than him.
Last edited by DangeRuss on Wed May 02, 2018 8:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Having Porzingis would also make Randle a lot more expendable though. Probably could get good value for Randle in a trade during trade deadline in Feb. |
Not with Porky rumored to possibly miss all of next season. |
Who knows what would have happened if we drafted Porky. For all we know, he never suffers that injury this year since it was inflicted in game while playing for the Knicks. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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Important to remember that the only low efficiency guys that are valuable are guys who do something extraordinary to offset that, usually volume creators who make the team as a whole efficient, and even then, you prefer efficient. If you’re not the guy setting the table? Then you better damn well be very high efficiency. High volume low efficiency while not generating offense for others? That’s not a stud
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | porzingis easily for 2 reasons:
1) His skillset is much harder to find in the nba.
2) Probably going to get into trouble for this but if we do Mitchell we lose out on Ball. I think Ball's skillset is much harder to find than Dlo.
So for me:
Porzingis+Ball> Dlo+ Mitchell. |
Stretch bigs are a dime a dozen, as are rim defenders. Nice to get both in one package, but again, he’s not really as great as people think at either. The most valuable asset in the league are wings/guards who can break down your defense for themselves and their teammates. |
Isn't Free Agency full of players like those though? Lebron, Butler,, Kawhi, PG13? I agree wings are important but I much rather get those in Free agency when they're already fully developed and capable of easily shouldering the no 1 option role. |
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DangeRuss
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| tofulakers wrote: | I'll say it again...
And we could've and should've drafted Mitchell.
This guy is just a winner and a baller. |
Yea sure buddy. If we drafted him over ball, especially at 2 overall, you and everyone else in the sports universe would be calling for their head. If I was the owner I would prolly have fired rob to be honest.
Plus it’s too early to tell, lonzo could easily end up the better player |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | porzingis easily for 2 reasons:
1) His skillset is much harder to find in the nba.
2) Probably going to get into trouble for this but if we do Mitchell we lose out on Ball. I think Ball's skillset is much harder to find than Dlo.
So for me:
Porzingis+Ball> Dlo+ Mitchell. |
Stretch bigs are a dime a dozen, as are rim defenders. Nice to get both in one package, but again, he’s not really as great as people think at either. The most valuable asset in the league are wings/guards who can break down your defense for themselves and their teammates. |
Isn't Free Agency full of players like those though? Lebron, Butler,, Kawhi, PG13? I agree wings are important but I much rather get those in Free agency when they're already fully developed and capable of easily shouldering the no 1 option role. |
Don’t move the goalposts on me now. Yes there are some free agent alphas out there, but that wasn’t your argument.
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Vanquish
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | porzingis easily for 2 reasons:
1) His skillset is much harder to find in the nba.
2) Probably going to get into trouble for this but if we do Mitchell we lose out on Ball. I think Ball's skillset is much harder to find than Dlo.
So for me:
Porzingis+Ball> Dlo+ Mitchell. |
Stretch bigs are a dime a dozen, as are rim defenders. Nice to get both in one package, but again, he’s not really as great as people think at either. The most valuable asset in the league are wings/guards who can break down your defense for themselves and their teammates. |
Isn't Free Agency full of players like those though? Lebron, Butler,, Kawhi, PG13? I agree wings are important but I much rather get those in Free agency when they're already fully developed and capable of easily shouldering the no 1 option role. |
Don’t move the goalposts on me now. Yes there are some free agent alphas out there, but that wasn’t your argument. |
Yeah, I can see how it might seem like I am moving the goalposts. Point taken.
From my warped brain though, I felt the argument was consistent since I was all about drafting harder to find skillsets, which to me was Porky + Ball (do get your point about stretch bigs, but disagree with respect to Porky). Further, Porky to me goes with Ball since we need to forgo Ball to get Mitchell.
On the Free agency standpoint, the way I see it is that the wing skillset you mentioned is already abundantly available on the market. So the skillset becomes easier to get. Thus Porky (and with him Ball) would be the preferable choice, harder skillsets to acquire since the market does not have as many of them. |
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Laker_Jocker
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno, but Mitchell is LEGIT whereas jury is still out on Porky in terms of winning. Mitchell is showing amazing poise for a rookie and makes winning plays.... |
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Yong
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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Porzingod. Would have fit the team perfectly.
Can you imagine
Porzingod, Randle, Ingram, Clarkson/PG/KCP, Ball? Also would have prevented us from signing Mozgov
Insanely young and talented core |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | Porzingod. Would have fit the team perfectly.
Can you imagine
Porzingod, Randle, Ingram, Clarkson/PG/KCP, Ball? Also would have prevented us from signing Mozgov
Insanely young and talented core |
With Porzingis, there'd be no Lonzo Ball.
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Vin
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| tofulakers wrote: | I'll say it again...
And we could've and should've drafted Mitchell.
This guy is just a winner and a baller. |
It's so easy to say that now. Ridiculous. |
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blackmamba08
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 2:57 am Post subject: |
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For Porzingis yes ...he is level above Julius.
For Mitchell, maybe it will sound strange, but I would take Lonzo again before him. I really believe in 2-3 years Lonzo will become best PG in the league. My only concern is his injuries not shooting or anything else. |
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SDLakersFan
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Easily Mitchell.
1) were in the guard era and boy did we strike out
2) I’m not sold on Porzingis. The injuries are a concern. I didn’t like his diva moments vs Phil. And he’s never played a meaningful game.
| 44TheLogo wrote: | everyone saying "can't blame them" because consensus was whatever whatever
that's a cop out. if you miss on a guy you have to figure out why. don't rely on consensus. do your own homework. trust your own evaluations. if you accept the "can't blame them" attitude then you're destined to continue missing and shrugging when you miss out. |
Can’t deny this. We bought into the hype on Ball. |
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J.C. Smith
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:20 am Post subject: |
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If the Lakers had taken Mitchell #2 they would have been crucified. The argument that they somehow missed out on him is silly.
Porzingis you can make an argument, but in fairness the Lakers did work him out and based on that they felt he had stamina issues and was years away. They were wrong there, but it's easy to see how they felt that way. He didn't look dominant in Europe either. There were shades of Darko heading into the draft with him. I think if they had it to do all over again they would have certainly taken him over Russell though. Still they deserve credit for taking Russell over Okafor who has turned out to be a complete bust. |
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irielight
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| SDLakersFan wrote: |
| 44TheLogo wrote: | everyone saying "can't blame them" because consensus was whatever whatever
that's a cop out. if you miss on a guy you have to figure out why. don't rely on consensus. do your own homework. trust your own evaluations. if you accept the "can't blame them" attitude then you're destined to continue missing and shrugging when you miss out. |
Can’t deny this. We bought into the hype on Ball. |
You can and you should imo. This is a straw man argument. It uses information available after the fact to prove its point. Yes, Donovan Mitchell is looking like he's gonna be a fantastic player, but the available information at the time didn't show that.
It has nothing to do with consensus and everything to do with talent evaluation. The best, most talented draft evaluators didn't think he would turn out to be this good. They were wrong of course, but this happens every single year. Hey, we got one this year in Kyle Kuzma. The job of GMs and scouts is to project how a player will look on the next level. It's as much an art as it is a science. |
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gumby
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Well, Porzingas injury and all.
I think as a player, that was a miss still not getting him.
Easiest explanation, where’s DLO now?
Bye.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | | Having Porzingis would also make Randle a lot more expendable though. Probably could get good value for Randle in a trade during trade deadline in Feb. |
Not with Porky rumored to possibly miss all of next season. |
Who knows what would have happened if we drafted Porky. For all we know, he never suffers that injury this year since it was inflicted in game while playing for the Knicks. |
Or maybe as a Laker he just flat out retires, or suffers a much more serious injury instead, like a career ender. Or just packs up and goes AWOL. Who knows. Maybe as a Laker he would have been a flst out bust. Who knows!
But rather than hypotheisze, let’s stick with the assumption that anything that occurred, that wasn’t exclusively a Knicks issue, would likely also have occurred. So his effectiveness, style of play, strengths, weaknesses, and injuries would all carry over for hypothetical purposes. |
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Fortysixn2
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
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I can’t imagine how some of you guys live your life. Focusing on “mistakes”, intent on painting some picture that involves making the wrong choices and living in the past.
1) NOBODY saw porzingis coming. Porzingis as the #4 pick was booed, some little kid was crying. DLO was the consensus #2 pick and nobody around here knew that DLO had no work ethic and that Porky was coming. Anyway, major injury...that wasn’t even a miss
2) Mitchell. He’s a great young player...for the #13 pick. Reality is that he went 6-21 last night and was 278th in TS % this season and played below average defense. He’s a low efficiency chucker, rarely shooting above .500 for a game (13 times out of 79 games I believe). Not that I don’t like him, in the way I like Westbrook or Booker...just because he’s had some moments in the playoffs doesn’t make him a future HOF player...he has a long long way to go and everybody here would have been calling for FO firing if he had been selected with our #2 pick. The jazz have missed ALOT on draft picks, they got lucky.
Trying to make it seem like our FO messed up with either of these picks is more of a reflection on how YOU feel about things then how THEY drafted. |
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LakersPimp
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| Fortysixn2 wrote: | I can’t imagine how some of you guys live your life. Focusing on “mistakes”, intent on painting some picture that involves making the wrong choices and living in the past.
1) NOBODY saw porzingis coming. Porzingis as the #4 pick was booed, some little kid was crying. DLO was the consensus #2 pick and nobody around here knew that DLO had no work ethic and that Porky was coming. Anyway, major injury...that wasn’t even a miss
2) Mitchell. He’s a great young player...for the #13 pick. Reality is that he went 6-21 last night and was 278th in TS % this season and played below average defense. He’s a low efficiency chucker, rarely shooting above .500 for a game (13 times out of 79 games I believe). Not that I don’t like him, in the way I like Westbrook or Booker...just because he’s had some moments in the playoffs doesn’t make him a future HOF player...he has a long long way to go and everybody here would have been calling for FO firing if he had been selected with our #2 pick. The jazz have missed ALOT on draft picks, they got lucky.
Trying to make it seem like our FO messed up with either of these picks is more of a reflection on how YOU feel about things then how THEY drafted. |
Did you WATCH the game...do you WATCH him?? He has a knack for making the right play at the right time. Kind of like a player that retired a few years ago...irregardless of his shooting percentage.
This data/stats age has people obsessing over TS/FG% and other stats. At the end of the game...you want a player who has the will and ability to make things happen. DM has that in SPADES. Lonzo....not so much. If he EVER gets to be a Ricky Rubio I will be happy....and DM is doing all this...WITHOUT Rubio...How can anyone seriously talk about 3-4 years down the line...when someone (a rookie) is producing NOW what we WISH Lonzo could do in the future....thats crazy. |
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Fortysixn2
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| LakersPimp wrote: | | Fortysixn2 wrote: | I can’t imagine how some of you guys live your life. Focusing on “mistakes”, intent on painting some picture that involves making the wrong choices and living in the past.
1) NOBODY saw porzingis coming. Porzingis as the #4 pick was booed, some little kid was crying. DLO was the consensus #2 pick and nobody around here knew that DLO had no work ethic and that Porky was coming. Anyway, major injury...that wasn’t even a miss
2) Mitchell. He’s a great young player...for the #13 pick. Reality is that he went 6-21 last night and was 278th in TS % this season and played below average defense. He’s a low efficiency chucker, rarely shooting above .500 for a game (13 times out of 79 games I believe). Not that I don’t like him, in the way I like Westbrook or Booker...just because he’s had some moments in the playoffs doesn’t make him a future HOF player...he has a long long way to go and everybody here would have been calling for FO firing if he had been selected with our #2 pick. The jazz have missed ALOT on draft picks, they got lucky.
Trying to make it seem like our FO messed up with either of these picks is more of a reflection on how YOU feel about things then how THEY drafted. |
Did you WATCH the game...do you WATCH him?? He has a knack for making the right play at the right time. Kind of like a player that retired a few years ago...irregardless of his shooting percentage.
This data/stats age has people obsessing over TS/FG% and other stats. At the end of the game...you want a player who has the will and ability to make things happen. DM has that in SPADES. Lonzo....not so much. If he EVER gets to be a Ricky Rubio I will be happy....and DM is doing all this...WITHOUT Rubio...How can anyone seriously talk about 3-4 years down the line...when someone (a rookie) is producing NOW what we WISH Lonzo could do in the future....thats crazy. |
I’ve watched every games he’s played in the postseason, he’s blown me away with some his offensive abilities honestly. I’m not saying he’s bad, he’s good...comparing him to Kobe is ridiculous. Westbrook has that same ability to make plays, maybe that’s Mitchell’s ceiling. Yes is far ahead of Lonzo in his ability to score, everything else goes to lonzo...passing, defense, BBIQ. You are saying he’s Kobe?
My point is that if we had drafted Mitchell people would have called for magic and rob’s head, how did they whiff on that selection? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Why do we do this to ourselves?
Do you guys think about what you could have done in the 9th grade to make a better pitch to Becky so that you could get her to go to Homecoming and stay in perpetual disappointment b/c you missed out on her?
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Fortysixn2 wrote: | I can’t imagine how some of you guys live your life. Focusing on “mistakes”, intent on painting some picture that involves making the wrong choices and living in the past.
1) NOBODY saw porzingis coming. Porzingis as the #4 pick was booed, some little kid was crying. DLO was the consensus #2 pick and nobody around here knew that DLO had no work ethic and that Porky was coming. Anyway, major injury...that wasn’t even a miss
2) Mitchell. He’s a great young player...for the #13 pick. Reality is that he went 6-21 last night and was 278th in TS % this season and played below average defense. He’s a low efficiency chucker, rarely shooting above .500 for a game (13 times out of 79 games I believe). Not that I don’t like him, in the way I like Westbrook or Booker...just because he’s had some moments in the playoffs doesn’t make him a future HOF player...he has a long long way to go and everybody here would have been calling for FO firing if he had been selected with our #2 pick. The jazz have missed ALOT on draft picks, they got lucky.
Trying to make it seem like our FO messed up with either of these picks is more of a reflection on how YOU feel about things then how THEY drafted. |
Not disagreeing with you about the FO, as it's to soon to tell, but I disagree with the bolded. Stats need to be put in the proper context and used appropriately. Despite his shooting woes, Jazz lose if Mitchell doesn't play like a killer last night. Jazz don't make the playoffs if Mitchell doesn't fill the void left by Hayward. |
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