Was Mitchell or Porzingod the bigger miss from our FO?
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70sdude
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:46 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
70sdude wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
The guy went 13th. He was never realistically in play. It's just not worth thinking about. Porzingis, in theory, could've been in play, since we apparently didn't want to take Okafor (the correct decision), so Porzingis may have been our second choice.


The misnomer "was not in play" is misleading, a cloaking device for what's more accurate, that talent evaluators did their jobs poorly.


Did they?

Pretty sure it was well known how KP killed his workout with the Lakers.

But if the FO drafts Mitchell and they miss on the #2 pick, people are getting fired.

It's not fair to assume Mitchell develops into this exact guy as a Laker player vs Utah player either.


I'll jump in. Are you saying there's no second-guessing draft results permitted ? That's the direction you're headed, that life is not fair and so there's no going back to replay what might have been in some alternate world, so we must assume that whoever plucked Mitchell was just lucky, not more gifted as a talent scout. I don't buy it. If Jerry West was just lucky to have been proven sharp having obtained the pick for Kobe Bryant, I might feel otherwise, but that was not just good fortune IMO.


That's absolutely not the direction I'm headed. I think people are using a lot of hindsight to evaluate players, but aren't recalling the thought processes that led to the draft evaluations in the first place.


The salient point is that the thought processes used pre-draft were proven flawed over time often enough to say that yes, humans make mistakes even within groups of experts, but that is not ignoring the thought processes that went into the decisions at the time. It's patently false that they couldn't have done better.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject:

I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:58 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
we were at Mitchell's pro day.

https://youtu.be/-0V204_nffE

magic and DLo are there.

and mitchell is already a better player than porzingis will ever be.


mitchell is the correct answer ...my injury concerns with KP were proven right.
The success of Mitchell is more a credit to Jazz than a FO mistake by ours. Drafting Oakafor and Fultz and trading a pick to do so was a massive blunder by Sixers. Who could have tatum or mitchell to pair with Embiid/Simmons.


Last edited by Killakobe81 on Fri May 11, 2018 4:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


Of course not. Doubt any team would have.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


Of course not. Doubt any team would have.


Which is why not drafting Mitchell isn't a miss.


Last edited by Beir32 on Thu May 10, 2018 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

If I recall, the Lakers really liked KP but were doubtful about his physical strength and durability. They may end up being correct when all is said and done.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
If I recall, the Lakers really liked KP but were doubtful about his physical strength and durability. They may end up being correct when all is said and done.


he didnt "man up" in the workout
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

pmacla wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
If I recall, the Lakers really liked KP but were doubtful about his physical strength and durability. They may end up being correct when all is said and done.


he didnt "man up" in the workout


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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:04 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
deal wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Grind wrote:
The Kuzma pick "offsets" our "missing" on Mitchell (if you wish to call it that). As both are primarily scorers with similar ceilings. Plus I'm very satisfied with us taking Lonzo, who fills a different need, and perhaps a more important one. Moreover, if we end up signing PG, no one will be complaining about "missing" on Mitchell.

Porzingis is another beast. Can stretch the floor... protect the rim ... is 7'3... Unicorn. And we picked DLo instead. Now I'll admit I was on board with that pick, but if we're affording ourselves the benefit of hindsight, Porzingis is the much bigger miss. He's the rarer talent of the two.


I too am satisfied with Ball but wanted Tatum and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. As for Porky the concern for a player of his size was health and so far that hasn’t gone well.



Exactly; Tatum was the big miss IMO.


I don't think you can be that definitive after year 1. Tatum is balling deep into the playoffs. But Lonzo, you have to give it more than 1 year.


Agree, Tatum was my choice to fill the scoring gap left by Kobe. By no means does drafting Lonzo instead look like a mistake. The only concern is will Lonzo commit to being a pro 100% of the time. And that concern stands for every other rookie as well.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:07 am    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


No one knows so why post an unanswerable hypothetical? Never mind, I know why.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


No one knows so why post an unanswerable hypothetical? Never mind, I know why.


Enlighten me.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

Beir32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


No one knows so why post an unanswerable hypothetical? Never mind, I know why.


Enlighten me.


Using an impossible to prove hypothetical to prove a point.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.


Don’t forget that they also drafted Eric Bledsoe and Reggie Jackson. Jeff Green not bad either. Steven Adams at eleventh a few years later.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject:

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Beir32
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Beir32 wrote:
I see a lot of praise for Utah for drafting Mitchell. Would they have taken him at 2 if they'd had the opportunity?


No one knows so why post an unanswerable hypothetical? Never mind, I know why.


Enlighten me.


Using an impossible to prove hypothetical to prove a point.


I see what you're saying and you're correct that we can never really know where Mitchell fell on anyone's board. However in this day and age with more access from reporters and behind the scenes access to the inner workings of these organizations I would think that something might have come out of somewhere.

"Sources told me team x was torn between…" even an embattled GM talking about being blown away by a workout and hoping that he'd fall. I'm just surprised I never heard anything like this (at least not yet). Then again maybe I haven't been looking hard enough.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

Tatum and Mitchell are misses. Definitely would have taken them over Lonzo looking back on it. That's not to say Zo won't be great I just enjoy the style of play that Mitchell and Tatum have more and I think they are much further along in their development.
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bandiger
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:55 am    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
Tatum and Mitchell are misses. Definitely would have taken them over Lonzo looking back on it. That's not to say Zo won't be great I just enjoy the style of play that Mitchell and Tatum have more and I think they are much further along in their development.


Well yes, playoffs brings out the best or worst in players. We'll never know with this core until they get to that level of competition
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.


And they still didn't win a title. That's crazy.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:10 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.


Don’t forget that they also drafted Eric Bledsoe and Reggie Jackson. Jeff Green not bad either. Steven Adams at eleventh a few years later.


well Jesus (bleep).
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.


And they still didn't win a title. That's crazy.



Multiple things need to go right along with some luck to win a championship. Presti did well drafting, but stumbled in some other areas as the GM of the Thunder. It was less than optimal on the ownership side along with some bad luck on health.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
It's patently false that they couldn't have done better.


That's what makes the draft fun. What is "best" for any team or overall, whatever that idea or concept is, changes every year.

So, unless someone has a dude that has an advanced understanding of how the NBA should work...

I mean, LAL has been drafting well since what, 2014? Practically every dude has been a productive player? It doesn't get much better than that, unless there's someone that just starts killing it in the draft to get THE GUY at every draft position for 3-5 years. That's ridiculously difficult, especially with so many variables.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.



The Celtics traded 3 HOFers in 2 years back in 69-70: Cowens, Jojo White, Charlie Scott.

They did the same thing in 56-67: Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones'

Knicks drafted 4 in 4 years: Willis Reed, Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Phil Jackson (made Hall as coach). Add in Dick Van Arsdale and Cazzie Rusell during that period.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject:

What teams drafts KP over DLO that season?

Phil would have absolutely taken DLO at #2.

If the Jazz were drafting #2, do they take Donovan Mitchell? Hell no. And every team from 1 to 11 had a chance to draft him, too.

The Cavs whiffed on Anthony Bennett. Everyone questioned it at the time, and they were right.
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I think the most successful draft success in recent times was OKC.

KD
WB
Harden
Ibaka.

I can't think of any 3-4 year period where a team drafted 3 HOF players.



The Celtics traded 3 HOFers in 2 years back in 69-70: Cowens, Jojo White, Charlie Scott.

They did the same thing in 56-67: Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones'

Knicks drafted 4 in 4 years: Willis Reed, Bill Bradley, Walt Frazier, Phil Jackson (made Hall as coach). Add in Dick Van Arsdale and Cazzie Rusell during that period.


Bill Bradley being in the HOF is a joke. I swear to god, that Knicks team has got to be one of the most overrated of all time. I have to assume the bulk of the voters lived in NYC.

And Phil Jackson is in the HOF as a coach, right? Not for coming off the bench for the Knicks.

And the Lakers drafted 4 HOFers in four years: Randle, Ingram, Ball and Kuzma
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