The Utah Model
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
troy
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 1094

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:35 am    Post subject: The Utah Model

I'm becoming more and more convinced that player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas are the key to being successful in this league, as opposed to catering to greedy superstars.

I'm referring specifically to the success of the Utah Jazz, easily one of my favorite teams.

No superstars there, just good quality young players committed to their roles, buying into a sound system of coaching, and playing hard every night for their fans and for themselves.

While everyone is salivating over the prospect of signing Paul George, this Utah team, with no superstars, has soundly eliminated a Thunder team with 3 superstars. There has to be something to say about that.

I wouldn't be surprised if this Jazz team eliminates the Rockets. Why? Because, unlike superstar-heavy teams that rely on their big players going one on one and playing hero ball, teams like the Jazz (and the Spurs back in the day) emphasize team ball; proficient passing, trusting each other, buying into a system, and playing hard.

I'm torn. I'm not a fan of Paul George's game. K. Leonard pouted heavily and let his team down. Cousins is coming off a difficult injury. Yes, Lebron is Lebron, but I really like what Utah has done.

If NO superstars come our way, I'm good with that. I say we follow the Utah model and watch our Lakers develop. The seeds are there, we just have to let them grow.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
silkwilkes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 6550
Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:39 am    Post subject:

Yeah. Finals appearances and championships have really piled up in Utah. Great example to follow.

The ceiling for their model is the conference semis in a good year.
_________________
"He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
danzag
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 12647
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:46 am    Post subject: Re: The Utah Model

troy wrote:
I'm referring specifically to the success of the Utah Jazz, easily one of my favorite teams.


Well, they haven't done anything yet, so don't act like it is a blueprint for success or something.
_________________
SPEAK IT INTO EXISTENCE
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 26648

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 4:51 am    Post subject:

Your model of success is a team that was #5 in the west each of the last 2 years while compiling a 0 - 5 record in the second round of the playoffs?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
ringfinger
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 21729

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:04 am    Post subject:

A huge part of Utah’s success is Quin Snyder.

They aren’t doing anything all that unique in terms of roster construction.

Now why is the Utah model, a better one for success, then the GS model??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 93522
Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:12 am    Post subject:

When you have a city like Utah, that historically cannot attract/keep top flight talent, they have no other choice.

Even Hayward left them, and on paper, he seemed like the kind of guy that would stay in Utah.
_________________
We have LBJ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RI Laker
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 3470

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject:

Fleece another team by trading up to snatch a player on the verge of being a star.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
blackmamba08
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 976
Location: Croatia

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:14 am    Post subject:

Our best model is to build LA Lakers model. I do not care about others TBH.

Our goal needs to be keeping our core of young guys( Lonzo, Ingram, Kuz, Randle and Hart) and to build from there. If there is a chance to sign superstar and keep all of them I am fine. If signing superstar means we have to move from Lonzo or/and Ingram I am against it. Why? I think in 3-4 years they will be superstars. I am 99% sure that in 3-4 years from now we will be major title contender just keeping the kids. One big assumption is that they work like crazy every single summer on their game. Without that nothing will happen.
And also keeping Luke as a coach.
_________________
K.O.B.E - King Of Basketball End of story
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Aeneas Hunter
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 20979

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:41 am    Post subject: Re: The Utah Model

troy wrote:
I'm becoming more and more convinced that player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas are the key to being successful in this league, as opposed to catering to greedy superstars.


What a radical idea. Thank goodness no one ever told the Spurs about that.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 5871

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject:

In general, professional sports leagues in North America have become young player leagues. You don’t see many 30+ players unless they are really effective and good. Salary cap is another factor.

So it’s really imperative that any team looking for success does really well in scouting and drafting.

The only sport where you can buy a championship is MLB which is still struggling with today’s environment and sports culture. It’s the only league where basically the same 6-8 teams being able to outspend everyone by a significant margin and guarantee a playoff spot basically every season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
activeverb
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 26648

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:02 am    Post subject:

The only "model" is that to be a winning team you need a lot of talent and/or talent that fits together well.

There is no inherently better or worse way to acquire that talent ... drafting, free agency, and trades all have their place and all have their pros and cons.

The "model" that one team used may not work for another team simply because the players are different. so it's always a little silly to say that one team should do what Golden State or what San Antonio or what Miami did, because you can never do exactly what they did
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 41338

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject:

Utah has done a great job with building their roster under the modern CBA.

They also have a good coach and (gasp) players who actually allow themselves to be coached.

I don't know if they are the model the Lakers need to follow, but it is embarrassing how badly the Lakers stacked up in comparison the last five years.

Hopefully Mitch redeems himself in Charlotte because his roster construction his last few years here was terrible.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Wilkes52
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 2342
Location: Far from home

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Not about a model there

I think Utah operates about as well as a franchise can be expected to in a very small market and in a city of the unusual limitations it has. Lifestyle options there are pretty limited, and the altitude probably turns off some guys from wanting to play there at home.

I think their attendance draws from a fan base which is more widely distributed geographically than with most NBA clubs (must draw from the more isolated adjacent areas of Ogden and Provo) to fill seats. There's an incredibly low density of residents immediately past fifteen miles of the arena. It is not easy to retain talent there, and it's harder to attract top free agents to SLC. The lessons seen in the Utah Jazz' history don't seem to apply to many clubs.
_________________
“These GOAT discussions are fun distractions while sitting around waiting for the pizza to be served.”

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 59741
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:22 am    Post subject:

Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
Troy Brown, Kevin Huerter, Chandler Hutchison, De'Anthony Melton, Jerome Robinson, Aaron Holiday, Bruce Brown, Donte Divincenzo, Josh Okogie
Jarred Vanderbilt, Landry Shamet, Alize Johnson
@Lakersoutsiders
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSD
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 5871

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 59741
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 6:34 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.


Agreed.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
Troy Brown, Kevin Huerter, Chandler Hutchison, De'Anthony Melton, Jerome Robinson, Aaron Holiday, Bruce Brown, Donte Divincenzo, Josh Okogie
Jarred Vanderbilt, Landry Shamet, Alize Johnson
@Lakersoutsiders
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Chronicle
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 30054
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:13 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.


Coaching needs some work
_________________
Purple and Banana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 93522
Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject:

I just chuckle when we had Snyder here as an assistant coach. But he didn't play on the Lakers so yeah...
_________________
We have LBJ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 31847
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.


Coaching needs some work


Lakers improved by 9 wins in Luke's first season, and then improved by 9 more wins in Luke's second season. Each of his first seasons heavily relied on young talent and a number of rookies. Then you can look at the improvements both Randle and Ingram have made since their rookie years. Honestly, I'm not sure we could expect more at this point, especially when taking into account the injuries our team went through this past season.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Mike@LG
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 59741
Location: Orange County, CA

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.


Coaching needs some work


Lakers improved by 9 wins in Luke's first season, and then improved by 9 more wins in Luke's second season. Each of his first seasons heavily relied on young talent and a number of rookies. Then you can look at the improvements both Randle and Ingram have made since their rookie years. Honestly, I'm not sure we could expect more at this point, especially when taking into account the injuries our team went through this past season.


Lineup improvements, playbook improvements, player development across the youthcore...
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
Troy Brown, Kevin Huerter, Chandler Hutchison, De'Anthony Melton, Jerome Robinson, Aaron Holiday, Bruce Brown, Donte Divincenzo, Josh Okogie
Jarred Vanderbilt, Landry Shamet, Alize Johnson
@Lakersoutsiders
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Chronicle
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 30054
Location: Holland

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Wait,

the Lakers don't have player development, quality coaching, and sound player personas now?


They definitely do, imo. Scouting has been killing it.


Coaching needs some work


Lakers improved by 9 wins in Luke's first season, and then improved by 9 more wins in Luke's second season. Each of his first seasons heavily relied on young talent and a number of rookies. Then you can look at the improvements both Randle and Ingram have made since their rookie years. Honestly, I'm not sure we could expect more at this point, especially when taking into account the injuries our team went through this past season.


I'm not saying the coaching didn't improve, but that it didn't improve enough. Luke's biggest weakness is rotations, which has been the case since his stint with Golden state. I see very little improvement in that. It took a team meeting for him to start our best player halfway through the season. Out of bound plays are also a significant weakness.

Yes our coaching has improved in some parts, but in other parts they still need some work. And it's something that should be prioritised imo
_________________
Purple and Banana
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
noahp45
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 4602
Location: Oceanside Ca

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:22 am    Post subject:

What stands out to me about Boston, Utah and the 76Ers. Is youth a system and good coaching.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Dr. Funkbot
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 7945
Location: Eagle Rock

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject:

I think what Luke did with a squad of rookies, one year rentals and second year players is almost as impressive as what Snyder has done with the more veteran squad in Utah.

In terms of team development I am firmly a believer in drafting and keeping your players together. It worked in OCK until they unwisely gave up on their draft picks too soon and it has obviously worked for the Warriors and now Philly- those teams also added valuable free agents, but kept their core draft picks together.

I just don't think that the draft picks your are developing should be sacrificed too soon otherwise you get on the treadmill. in other words, patience must be part of the process.
_________________
R.I.P. Doc Buss
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
LakerSanity
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 31847
Location: Long Beach, California

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

We also went from 30th in the league in defense to 12th in one season, while heavily relying on THREE rookies and a second year player. That's Brad Stevens level success right there.
_________________
LakersGround's Terms of Service
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 93522
Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
We also went from 30th in the league in defense to 12th in one season, while heavily relying on THREE rookies and a second year player. That's Brad Stevens level success right there.


Agreed. Most striking thing to me was that.

At our peak, finally got that feeling again that we could compete with most teams on any given night.
_________________
We have LBJ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB