| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
PhillyDoc
Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 1034
|
 Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: Best Player in the Game right now is? |
|
|
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_16187.shtml
Good things to say about one of the LAL - not a surprise who.
This is a free article and can be opened by everyone.
Regards,
PDR |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
angel
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
No doubt.
_________________
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
62
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 656
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
No doubt it's Kobe. Too bad the best player has the worst supporting cast.
I mean, Smush Parker as a starting PG? Brian Cook as the 2nd best scorer? Wow.
_________________
Agent 62 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If basketball was an individual sport then it'd be Kobe but since it's not the best player in the game is Steve Nash. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ko8e8ryant
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5562
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | | If basketball was an individual sport then it'd be Kobe but since it's not the best player in the game is Steve Nash. |
No, not even close. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17668
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | | If basketball was an individual sport then it'd be Kobe but since it's not the best player in the game is Steve Nash. |
The man has one good season and he is the best player in the game  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Money$hot! wrote: | | If basketball was an individual sport then it'd be Kobe but since it's not the best player in the game is Steve Nash. |
The man has one good season and he is the best player in the game |
Hmmm... who was the MVP last season?
Who will probably be the MVP this season?
You see, Nash is not only playing at a personal best level (he is probably the best PG in the world today). He also has his team playing at a level no one predicted, nobody, period. He's got his guys believing and performing, but most of all winning. That's the object of the game and no player has a larger positive affect on his team's standings then Steve Nash. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Apples and Oranges, Moneyshot.
Nash is a PG - that his job
Bryant is a scorer - that's his job.
Kobe has scored more than anyone else in the league. Nash has distributed the ball more than anyone else in the league
A case can be made for either since they both have dominated in their roles (Scoring for Kobe, playmaking for Nash) BUT the Nash is no defender.
Bryant atleast against elite players at his position - will defend them and many times contain them. That's dominating the game on BOTH ends.
Nash doesn't stop his competition at all.
Bryant gets the edge as a player because of defense - but Nash deserves the MVP because his impact on offense that has led to more wins |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
62
Starting Rotation
Joined: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 656
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nash? You freakin kidding me?
He's not nearly as skilled and athletic as Kobe.
How about defense?
Nash is a great player but Kobe's the best. The best 1 on 1 player, the best individual player, a guy that has 3 rings..
It's Kobe. 35 ppg is insane. Too bad he has a major underachiever as his 2nd option, too bad his starting PG is Smush Parker, too bad his 2nd best scorer is Brian Cook, too bad he has such a rotten group to lead.
Nash has an all star in Marion and some great players.
Kobe has....Odom, Cook, Smush Parker, Sasha Vujacic, Kwame Brown
_________________
Agent 62 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Apples and Oranges, Moneyshot.
Nash is a PG - that his job
Bryant is a scorer - that's his job.
Kobe has scored more than anyone else in the league. Nash has distributed the ball more than anyone else in the league
A case can be made for either since they both have dominated in their roles (Scoring for Kobe, playmaking for Nash) BUT the Nash is no defender.
Bryant atleast against elite players at his position - will defend them and many times contain them. That's dominating the game on BOTH ends.
Nash doesn't stop his competition at all.
Bryant gets the edge as a player because of defense - but Nash deserves the MVP because his impact on offense that has led to more wins |
When asked who is the best player we must consider why we play. Do we play to score? or do we play to win? Is Nash the individual defender Kobe is? Nope. Doesn't matter becaue Nash has not allowed that fact to lead his team to defeat. Nash has found the holy grail of basketball... the same thing that Magic, Jordan, Bird, West, and Isiah had... if you help your teammates succeed, it builds their sense of ownership in the team's success. Thus the team works harder as a whole to win. You don't have to be a PG to do this (Bird/Jordan). As you said, Nash has lead his team to win well above any expectation. Kobe, not nearly as much. The answer is Nash. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tgf5
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 11581
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chauncey Billups has no business being on that list. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
heineken
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2005
Posts: 1601
Location: Lakers Bench
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
A better supporting cast does not a better player make. Kobe is much better player than Steve Nash. Kobe is the best player on the planet. Some can make arguements for Duncan (as wrong as they may be). But with Nash you are reaching. PG's job is to get the ball to people to make plays. Talent wise it is not even close. Simple math subtract Kobe from the Lakers and subtract Nash from the Suns. You are kidding yourself if you think that the Lakers sans Kobe would have a better record.
_________________
"It's all about the beer" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CorkyTomjanovich
Star Player
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 3486
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Money$hot! wrote: | | If basketball was an individual sport then it'd be Kobe but since it's not the best player in the game is Steve Nash. |
The man has one good season and he is the best player in the game |
Hmmm... who was the MVP last season?
Who will probably be the MVP this season?
You see, Nash is not only playing at a personal best level (he is probably the best PG in the world today). He also has his team playing at a level no one predicted, nobody, period. He's got his guys believing and performing, but most of all winning. That's the object of the game and no player has a larger positive affect on his team's standings then Steve Nash. |
1. Nash is the same player he was in Dallas. Was he the best player in the league then?
2. Plenty of people, myself included, picked them to win the pacific despite Amare's injury. The team is still loaded and stocked with defenders and shooters. Diaw-underrated, Bell-underrated, Jones-underrated. 3 new additions who all bring a lot to the table. That team is already developed and designed, this Lakers club is not. To say Nash is a better basketball player than Kobe is a complete slap in the face. Show a little respect.
_________________
JVG FOR LAKERS HEAD COACH |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tgf5
Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 11581
Location: Canada
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Nash is MVP because the GM is doing all the right things. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | Apples and Oranges, Moneyshot.
Nash is a PG - that his job
Bryant is a scorer - that's his job.
Kobe has scored more than anyone else in the league. Nash has distributed the ball more than anyone else in the league
A case can be made for either since they both have dominated in their roles (Scoring for Kobe, playmaking for Nash) BUT the Nash is no defender.
Bryant atleast against elite players at his position - will defend them and many times contain them. That's dominating the game on BOTH ends.
Nash doesn't stop his competition at all.
Bryant gets the edge as a player because of defense - but Nash deserves the MVP because his impact on offense that has led to more wins |
When asked who is the best player we must consider why we play. Do we play to score? or do we play to win? Is Nash the individual defender Kobe is? Nope. Doesn't matter becaue Nash has not allowed that fact to lead his team to defeat. Nash has found the holy grail of basketball... the same thing that Magic, Jordan, Bird, West, and Isiah had... if you help your teammates succeed, it builds their sense of ownership in the team's success. Thus the team works harder as a whole to win. You don't have to be a PG to do this (Bird/Jordan). As you said, Nash has lead his team to win well above any expectation. Kobe, not nearly as much. The answer is Nash. |
Well then I guess Shaq was never the best player in the NBA either. Even in his best years.
Same with Jordan.
The fact is, the only player that really makes teammates around them better are PG's.
Jordan and Bird made them better? Baloney. No more than what Kobe can do as a superstar that draws doubles, triples and quadriples giving them open shot after open shot.
The difference is that Jordan had shooters and a team that could make opponents pay. When Kobe gets that - you will see the same thing.
Again, you basically are giving Nash the award for a better player because he's a PG and Bryant's not. That's not fair at all.
Kobe isn't the MVP IMO. It's Nash. But I totally disagree that Nash is the better player overall.
As players you are judged individually. The MVP award isn't for the best player in the league. It's for the best player one of the best teams. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Shaq was never the most skilled player in the game but, for a time, he did get the best results.
That's exactly the point.
The best player in the game will figure out how to win with the talent he has around him. Does it always equal a title? No. Nonetheless there will be winning.
Bird and Jordan got results when they found the holy-grail of basketball.
Kobe has teammates that can hit from very specific spots. Cook from 22 feet wide open. Odom from the left side of the hoop and from 3 straight away. Smush from the same 3 point spot. Sasha from the right elbow at 17 feet. Slava anywhere @ 18 feet. Mihm can dunk anything. Kobe's challenge is to work his all around scoring game to coincide with his teammates. Please don't think that only PG's do this. Both Bird and Jordan did this with so much regularity they made minor-legends out of their teammates (Bill Cartwright from 18' on either side, Horace from 15', the Paxson, Kerr, Hodges combo spot up outside the arc). Plenty of players are money from 3pt range but they have to be wide open and in rhythm. Jordan made sure that he started his offense so that if he got no foul, or no good shot attempt that whatever double or triple that attacked him would leave on of those teammates open in their best spot. Bird did the same.
Kobe still has to learn how to get the most from his prodigious skills. He must demand that his teammates have rotated to their highest FG% spots every time. He must recognize when to pass and when to shoot. He must understand that his teammates getting high percentage shots contributes to their ownership of the team's success. He must demand that his teamates practice enough so they are also money from at least one spot on the floor that arises in a game situation. Kobe is empowered to do this.
That is what will make a superstar like Kobe more than just a great scorer. Remember, scoring is the ends to a mean. Just like defense can be (Bad Boy Pistons). If Kobe can grasp the holy-grail of basketball, that will make him a winner. When Kobe's team once again becomes a winner, then he will be the best player in Basketball. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tw-lakbfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2001
Posts: 16636
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Kobe is the best player in the league. Glad more people, especially some media guys, start to recognize that instead of trying to find every excuse to deny that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
loseyourname
Star Player
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 1531
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | Bird and Jordan got results when they found the holy-grail of basketball.
|
Bird and Jordan got to the holy land when they played alongside various all-stars, future hall-of-famers, and top 50 all-time players. So did Kobe. Nash so far, despite being on some very good teams with more overall talent than anything the Lakers ever had, has never won. And it had nothing to do with his deficiency. His team, though loaded with talent, was unbalanced and weak on the interior. Like you said, this is a team game, and teams, not individuals, win and lose games (although a player as special as Jordan or Kobe does occasionally win games pretty much alone, but not consistently).
We are, however, comparing individuals here, not teams. The Suns are better; Nash is not. Trade him for Kobe and the Lakers do not get better. Even if he is the better distributor, Cook, Mihm, and Smush are already averaging career highs and aren't likely to get any better this season regardless of who they're playing with. Nash, even with his assists, is not going to come close to making up the scoring deficit from losing a guy averaging 35 and 5. For that matter, the Suns probably wouldn't get much better, either, as they'd suddenly have have an overload of wings and no true point guard. Although I can guarantee you they'd rather build around Kobe/Stoudemire than Nash/Stoudemire. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Money$hot! wrote: | Shaq was never the most skilled player in the game but, for a time, he did get the best results.
That's exactly the point.
The best player in the game will figure out how to win with the talent he has around him. Does it always equal a title? No. Nonetheless there will be winning.
Bird and Jordan got results when they found the holy-grail of basketball.
Kobe has teammates that can hit from very specific spots. Cook from 22 feet wide open. Odom from the left side of the hoop and from 3 straight away. Smush from the same 3 point spot. Sasha from the right elbow at 17 feet. Slava anywhere @ 18 feet. Mihm can dunk anything. Kobe's challenge is to work his all around scoring game to coincide with his teammates. Please don't think that only PG's do this. Both Bird and Jordan did this with so much regularity they made minor-legends out of their teammates (Bill Cartwright from 18' on either side, Horace from 15', the Paxson, Kerr, Hodges combo spot up outside the arc). Plenty of players are money from 3pt range but they have to be wide open and in rhythm. Jordan made sure that he started his offense so that if he got no foul, or no good shot attempt that whatever double or triple that attacked him would leave on of those teammates open in their best spot. Bird did the same.
Kobe still has to learn how to get the most from his prodigious skills. He must demand that his teammates have rotated to their highest FG% spots every time. He must recognize when to pass and when to shoot. He must understand that his teammates getting high percentage shots contributes to their ownership of the team's success. He must demand that his teamates practice enough so they are also money from at least one spot on the floor that arises in a game situation. Kobe is empowered to do this.
That is what will make a superstar like Kobe more than just a great scorer. Remember, scoring is the ends to a mean. Just like defense can be (Bad Boy Pistons). If Kobe can grasp the holy-grail of basketball, that will make him a winner. When Kobe's team once again becomes a winner, then he will be the best player in Basketball. |
This is a worthless post.
Nash is only great because he has a running mate: Shawn Marion who is SO UNDERRATED ITS RIDUCLOUS....how can he be an ALL-STAR and NO ONE GIVES HIM ANY CREDIT
Kobe doesn't need a running mate to be great...i mean come on?
Whose better then Kobe?
_________________
Kevin Love. 2015. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ko8e8ryant
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 5562
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Could Kobe win MVP with the same team Nash had?
PG - Johnson
SG - Kobe
SF - Richardson
PF - Marion
C - Amare |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
filipensses
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jun 2005
Posts: 290
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's ridiculous to say Nash is #1. Put him with Kwame and Odom and then check his assists. Not to mention defense. Kobe is #1 in offense AND defense at his position. You can't say the same for ANY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE RIGHT NOW.
If a player is the best in his position in BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT, there's no question about who's the best player in the game.
_________________
"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it's not open." - Frank Zappa |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLogic
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Put Nash on the Lakers and he won't win jack. Suns have a plethora of athletic shooters who can finish. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| filipensses wrote: | It's ridiculous to say Nash is #1. Put him with Kwame and Odom and then check his assists. Not to mention defense. Kobe is #1 in offense AND defense at his position. You can't say the same for ANY PLAYER IN THE LEAGUE RIGHT NOW.
If a player is the best in his position in BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT, there's no question about who's the best player in the game. |
Agreed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Money$hot!
Star Player
Joined: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 5911
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLogic wrote: | | Put Nash on the Lakers and he won't win jack. Suns have a plethora of athletic shooters who can finish. |
Put Nash on the Lakers and see what happens to Kwame. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhillyDoc
Star Player
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 1034
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As the author of this to me a switch of Kobe to the Suns would probably mean both team ok.
Barbosa who is very good would go to point and Suns would stay at least a 55 win team and maybe even better and then when they got Amare back skys the limit.
Starting lineup of
Kobe
Barbosa
Marion
Diaw or Thomas (take your pick)
Stoudemire (Healthy)
Would be unreal!
Nash would score more on the Lakers due to need to and would probably become about a 24 PPG scorer. He would probably get some players involved more but cannot see the Lakers getting much better and probably worse without Kobe - primarily as Nash no way can defend like Kobe or get off his own shot as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
