With the way Utah, Boston & Gs are! Does that mean the Lakers Will???
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noahp45
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:03 am    Post subject: With the way Utah, Boston & Gs are! Does that mean the Lakers Will???

Looking at what Boston is doing with only one Star "Horford" and young hungry dudes. And what Utah is doing with all young dudes and two up and coming stars. And to include what GS became even before they added KD.

Is that the wining formal to build your team up and win chips? And if you believe that it is the correct formal, is it safe to say just Adding PG13 with the Lakers young hungry dudes we will be in the mix Next year?
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject:

Build a team up and win chips. Now that’s out of the box thinking!
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:35 am    Post subject:

The winning formula is keeping your young core and adding players that fit but don't take away from what you've got in place, meaning no ball hogging superstars, just complimentary pieces
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

What those teams have in common is great coaches, something Luke is not.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject:

All those teams have franchise caliber players. The Lakers MIGHT have one but none of the young players have proven that yet.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:46 am    Post subject:

What Boston has done is incredible. They had one non playoff year and now they have a championship core, with future stars like Tatum and Brown and guys stepping up looking like gems like Rozier. They can easily put together a package for AD or Leonard, possible even deal Kyrie and retain Smart and Rozier. Best coaching in the NBA as well plus Sacramento's pick next year? Lol.

Our backup PGs were Caruso and Tyler Ennis. Running circles around the Lakers right now.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Build a team up and win chips. Now that’s out of the box thinking!
glad you beat me to it.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
What Boston has done is incredible. They had one non playoff year and now they have a championship core, with future stars like Tatum and Brown and guys stepping up looking like gems like Rozier. They can easily put together a package for AD or Leonard, possible even deal Kyrie and retain Smart and Rozier. Best coaching in the NBA as well plus Sacramento's pick next year? Lol.

Our backup PGs were Caruso and Tyler Ennis. Running circles around the Lakers right now.
What boston has done is not incredible.

When you have kg, ray allen, and paul pierce on the same team. Then you had a young rondo(because before you brought those guys in your team sucked.) you have assets when you only win one ring with that super team. once you realized time to break it up(which is much easier thing to do when you've only won ONE TIME.) you have people to trade to other desperate teams with picks. those guys get old on the other team and that team goes into the tank(NETS) and you get all sorts of high picks from it. you keep flipping picks for other picks. next thing you know, you have a team full of young guys and a couple of new FA's. Its not mind blowing that this has occurred. It's solid GM work for sure. but not mind blowing.

Philly sucking since DR J, then sucking again since barkley, then sucking again post AI. Then finally fielding a team of young guys that get to the playoffs. then to blow that up to tank year after year after year after year until you finally get lucky and hit on a couple of top picks. nothing is ground breaking about that either. just in case you were going there too.

Gstate's way isnt ground breaking either. you suck for a long time. then finally become semi decent post latrell sprewell. the Baron davis era. Then you fall back down again. then some of your picks end up getting injured early in their careers, which means you suck again some more. never seeing the WCF's, never seeing the finals. The warriors were not contenders for like 30+ years prior to this recent run.

The bucks haven't looked this decent since Big Dog robinson, ray allen, and Michael redd played on the same team...i'm not sure redd was even there yet.. probably tim thomas(the suns still bothers me). and they never went to the finals either. shoot was kareem's championship the last bucks ring? I think so.

lets not even talk about the raptors. air canad amounted to nothing in all reality. and they are still in the same place. going no where fast(probably going to get swept by a hobbling cavs team..what a shame.)


basically the rule of thumb is suck for awhile and pray the guys you pick in the draft turn into ballers.

The lakers...why arent we there yet? because we have won too often since the 80's. a bunch of back to backs or 3 peats. you win like that and you can't just let the band go and start over again like boston did with ray allen, kg, etc. you can't even hit the semi reset like the spurs did after every other year when they would never win a back 2 back title. This is why you're just now seeing our young core starting to make strides. we're late to the be sorry for a bit and pick good guys party. and unlike these other teams we have not sucked for DECADES. So please laker fans. please dont get so caught up in what these other teams are doing or really not doing aside from being bad for a long time and finally getting good picks and assets to trade for better players or cap space to have to woo better players.

its easy to have cap space, and high picks when you've sucked for awhile. that doesnt take a lot of smarts to pull off.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:23 am    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
What Boston has done is incredible. They had one non playoff year and now they have a championship core, with future stars like Tatum and Brown and guys stepping up looking like gems like Rozier. They can easily put together a package for AD or Leonard, possible even deal Kyrie and retain Smart and Rozier. Best coaching in the NBA as well plus Sacramento's pick next year? Lol.

Our backup PGs were Caruso and Tyler Ennis. Running circles around the Lakers right now.


and yet boston beat us once and we beat boston once without lonzo playing that 2nd game. what would have happened if we actually had 1 superstar on our team for both meetings? We probably would've blown them out twice. thats how close we are.

Remember, they have Kyrie, Morris, and Horford. 3 grown up vets. 2 allstars(kyrie/horford was one). and 1 superstar(kyrie).

lopez i think was an allstar once but i could be wrong. aside from that. we had a broken IT and a bunch of children. yet we still beat them one out of two tries. The league better pray we dont get any help this summer or next. and I actually like boston's team. rozier is my guy after what he has shown.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
All those teams have franchise caliber players. The Lakers MIGHT have one but none of the young players have proven that yet.


Find out if they are a Lebron/Kobe mentality or just cheap imitations that wilt in a playoff environment.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
What Boston has done is incredible. They had one non playoff year and now they have a championship core, with future stars like Tatum and Brown and guys stepping up looking like gems like Rozier. They can easily put together a package for AD or Leonard, possible even deal Kyrie and retain Smart and Rozier. Best coaching in the NBA as well plus Sacramento's pick next year? Lol.

Our backup PGs were Caruso and Tyler Ennis. Running circles around the Lakers right now.
What boston has done is not incredible.

When you have kg, ray allen, and paul pierce on the same team. Then you had a young rondo(because before you brought those guys in your team sucked.) you have assets when you only win one ring with that super team. once you realized time to break it up(which is much easier thing to do when you've only won ONE TIME.) you have people to trade to other desperate teams with picks. those guys get old on the other team and that team goes into the tank(NETS) and you get all sorts of high picks from it. you keep flipping picks for other picks. next thing you know, you have a team full of young guys and a couple of new FA's. Its not mind blowing that this has occurred. It's solid GM work for sure. but not mind blowing.

Philly sucking since DR J, then sucking again since barkley, then sucking again post AI. Then finally fielding a team of young guys that get to the playoffs. then to blow that up to tank year after year after year after year until you finally get lucky and hit on a couple of top picks. nothing is ground breaking about that either. just in case you were going there too.

Gstate's way isnt ground breaking either. you suck for a long time. then finally become semi decent post latrell sprewell. the Baron davis era. Then you fall back down again. then some of your picks end up getting injured early in their careers, which means you suck again some more. never seeing the WCF's, never seeing the finals. The warriors were not contenders for like 30+ years prior to this recent run.

The bucks haven't looked this decent since Big Dog robinson, ray allen, and Michael redd played on the same team...i'm not sure redd was even there yet.. probably tim thomas(the suns still bothers me). and they never went to the finals either. shoot was kareem's championship the last bucks ring? I think so.

lets not even talk about the raptors. air canad amounted to nothing in all reality. and they are still in the same place. going no where fast(probably going to get swept by a hobbling cavs team..what a shame.)


basically the rule of thumb is suck for awhile and pray the guys you pick in the draft turn into ballers.

The lakers...why arent we there yet? because we have won too often since the 80's. a bunch of back to backs or 3 peats. you win like that and you can't just let the band go and start over again like boston did with ray allen, kg, etc. you can't even hit the semi reset like the spurs did after every other year when they would never win a back 2 back title. This is why you're just now seeing our young core starting to make strides. we're late to the be sorry for a bit and pick good guys party. and unlike these other teams we have not sucked for DECADES. So please laker fans. please dont get so caught up in what these other teams are doing or really not doing aside from being bad for a long time and finally getting good picks and assets to trade for better players or cap space to have to woo better players.

its easy to have cap space, and high picks when you've sucked for awhile. that doesnt take a lot of smarts to pull off.


Yeah, sure, it's so easy. That's why perpetual lottery dwellers suck for a decade plus (hello Orlando, Sacramento). It's called having a solid front office.

Lakers being great for decades has nothing to do with them being lousy for 5 years. Being elite forced them to hire trash coaches like Mike Brown and Byron Scott? or a bad fit like Dantoni? Also Paul Pierce was a Celtics icon, that trade wasn't easy to make. Lakers handed out a two year cap crippling deal to a franchise icon who was done. They let productive players like Gasol and Howard walk without even netting a second round pick.

Lakers weren't tanking when they were running out bums like Jordan Hill and Carlos Boozer so they could increase their odds at keeping a first round pick?When Nick Young was their veteran presence? When their GM handed out absurd 4 year contracts to two bums? When they won 17 games during Kobe's victory lap season? Please, they were tanking too. They just got trash like Dlo Russell shooting videos of Noodles Young instead of Embiid, Towns and/or Simmons. The lottery is luck in terms of where you land.

You don't have to like Boston or Philly, but both have better assets, higher ceiling players and brighter futures. Lakers are relying on massive internal player development and free agency pipe dreams to questionable star players like Paul George.

I'll give Maginka credit for now, they realized Nance, Clarkson and Russell were turds and dealt them for picks and cap space. Let's see what happens. But I'm not going to look at Boston and not be envious. Ainge did a brilliant job. He traded IT and a first rounder for Kyrie. He got Tatum and a lottery pick for Fultz. What he's doing is more impressive than Philly because APhilly just ran out a CBA team and hit on a couple picks, Boston has had only one lousy year.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
The winning formula is keeping your young core and adding players that fit but don't take away from what you've got in place, meaning no ball hogging superstars, just complimentary pieces


LOL. The winning formula is a having a player that can win a MVP. Those guys usually dominate the ball. You don't win a championship with complimentary pieces.


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

What you will first notice about Celtics, Wolves, Utah, Philly,
GS, Spurs is that they VALUE their first round picks. They DONT trade them away unless for a superstar for sure.
The Lakers are now on the same path, but only for ONE year.
And they were handicapped by giving up lots of first round picks
for stars that did NOT play for them.
And of course Mosgov/Deng giving them star contracts and NEVER
played for the Lakers.
All the while the other teams where making SMART decisions.
The Lakers have the team now. Magic, Pelinka, and Jessie.
But the BIGGEST key is patience.
If can't get it this year get it next year.
But move ahead incrementally and not take steps back.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The winning formula is keeping your young core and adding players that fit but don't take away from what you've got in place, meaning no ball hogging superstars, just complimentary pieces


LOL. The winning formula is a having a player that can win a MVP. They guys usually dominate the ball. You don't win a championship with complimentary pieces.

Yes, it usually is. But you can also win with a team of fringe all stars, like the Pistons in 04 or the Spurs in 14, and its looking like we are headed in that direction with loads of potential, but none of our guys look like a surefire top 5 player. And that's okay, TEAMS win titles not individuals. We have a bunch of options either way and i'm pleased with the direction we're headed after basically being hopeless and drowning with Jimbo running the show.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject:

E=MC˛ wrote:
What those teams have in common is great coaches, something Luke is not.


I've been up and down on Luke, but you can't say he doesn't learn from his mistakes. Whether it's with the line ups or simple things like calling time out while we are in transition with seconds left in a close game. He's a players coach and he wants lesser guys to succeed, to a fault. But then he'll do something brilliant like start Ingram at the point when he finally had enough of Ennis.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Wildchild027 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
The winning formula is keeping your young core and adding players that fit but don't take away from what you've got in place, meaning no ball hogging superstars, just complimentary pieces


LOL. The winning formula is a having a player that can win a MVP. They guys usually dominate the ball. You don't win a championship with complimentary pieces.

Yes, it usually is. But you can also win with a team of fringe all stars, like the Pistons in 04 or the Spurs in 14, and its looking like we are headed in that direction with loads of potential, but none of our guys look like a surefire top 5 player. And that's okay, TEAMS win titles not individuals. We have a bunch of options either way and i'm pleased with the direction we're headed after basically being hopeless and drowning with Jimbo running the show.


I don't want this team to be the next Clippers, Hawks, Raptors, etc. Test these players in the playoffs, if they look timid or too sensitive to the moment. Trade them ASAP.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 11:57 am    Post subject:

This kids need to taste the playoff ASAP then we’ll find out. Of course imma say they gonna do well cause they will
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
lakers4life78 wrote:
What Boston has done is incredible. They had one non playoff year and now they have a championship core, with future stars like Tatum and Brown and guys stepping up looking like gems like Rozier. They can easily put together a package for AD or Leonard, possible even deal Kyrie and retain Smart and Rozier. Best coaching in the NBA as well plus Sacramento's pick next year? Lol.

Our backup PGs were Caruso and Tyler Ennis. Running circles around the Lakers right now.
What boston has done is not incredible.

When you have kg, ray allen, and paul pierce on the same team. Then you had a young rondo(because before you brought those guys in your team sucked.) you have assets when you only win one ring with that super team. once you realized time to break it up(which is much easier thing to do when you've only won ONE TIME.) you have people to trade to other desperate teams with picks. those guys get old on the other team and that team goes into the tank(NETS) and you get all sorts of high picks from it. you keep flipping picks for other picks. next thing you know, you have a team full of young guys and a couple of new FA's. Its not mind blowing that this has occurred. It's solid GM work for sure. but not mind blowing.

Philly sucking since DR J, then sucking again since barkley, then sucking again post AI. Then finally fielding a team of young guys that get to the playoffs. then to blow that up to tank year after year after year after year until you finally get lucky and hit on a couple of top picks. nothing is ground breaking about that either. just in case you were going there too.

Gstate's way isnt ground breaking either. you suck for a long time. then finally become semi decent post latrell sprewell. the Baron davis era. Then you fall back down again. then some of your picks end up getting injured early in their careers, which means you suck again some more. never seeing the WCF's, never seeing the finals. The warriors were not contenders for like 30+ years prior to this recent run.

The bucks haven't looked this decent since Big Dog robinson, ray allen, and Michael redd played on the same team...i'm not sure redd was even there yet.. probably tim thomas(the suns still bothers me). and they never went to the finals either. shoot was kareem's championship the last bucks ring? I think so.

lets not even talk about the raptors. air canad amounted to nothing in all reality. and they are still in the same place. going no where fast(probably going to get swept by a hobbling cavs team..what a shame.)


basically the rule of thumb is suck for awhile and pray the guys you pick in the draft turn into ballers.

The lakers...why arent we there yet? because we have won too often since the 80's. a bunch of back to backs or 3 peats. you win like that and you can't just let the band go and start over again like boston did with ray allen, kg, etc. you can't even hit the semi reset like the spurs did after every other year when they would never win a back 2 back title. This is why you're just now seeing our young core starting to make strides. we're late to the be sorry for a bit and pick good guys party. and unlike these other teams we have not sucked for DECADES. So please laker fans. please dont get so caught up in what these other teams are doing or really not doing aside from being bad for a long time and finally getting good picks and assets to trade for better players or cap space to have to woo better players.

its easy to have cap space, and high picks when you've sucked for awhile. that doesnt take a lot of smarts to pull off.


Yeah, sure, it's so easy. That's why perpetual lottery dwellers suck for a decade plus (hello Orlando, Sacramento). It's called having a solid front office.

Lakers being great for decades has nothing to do with them being lousy for 5 years. Being elite forced them to hire trash coaches like Mike Brown and Byron Scott? or a bad fit like Dantoni? Also Paul Pierce was a Celtics icon, that trade wasn't easy to make. Lakers handed out a two year cap crippling deal to a franchise icon who was done. They let productive players like Gasol and Howard walk without even netting a second round pick.

Lakers weren't tanking when they were running out bums like Jordan Hill and Carlos Boozer so they could increase their odds at keeping a first round pick?When Nick Young was their veteran presence? When their GM handed out absurd 4 year contracts to two bums? When they won 17 games during Kobe's victory lap season? Please, they were tanking too. They just got trash like Dlo Russell shooting videos of Noodles Young instead of Embiid, Towns and/or Simmons. The lottery is luck in terms of where you land.

You don't have to like Boston or Philly, but both have better assets, higher ceiling players and brighter futures. Lakers are relying on massive internal player development and free agency pipe dreams to questionable star players like Paul George.

I'll give Maginka credit for now, they realized Nance, Clarkson and Russell were turds and dealt them for picks and cap space. Let's see what happens. But I'm not going to look at Boston and not be envious. Ainge did a brilliant job. He traded IT and a first rounder for Kyrie. He got Tatum and a lottery pick for Fultz. What he's doing is more impressive than Philly because APhilly just ran out a CBA team and hit on a couple picks, Boston has had only one lousy year.


Boston had only one lousy year because Ainge nuked Brooklyn in a trade for a pick swap and two unprotected firsts. So Ainge had a proxy in the Nets to take the beatings (bad seasons) while he skimmed off the high draft picks that were a result of the beatings that the Nets took.

Hooray for the Celtics and their fans, but it is really sad for the Nets and their fans.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
E=MC˛ wrote:
What those teams have in common is great coaches, something Luke is not.


I've been up and down on Luke, but you can't say he doesn't learn from his mistakes. Whether it's with the line ups or simple things like calling time out while we are in transition with seconds left in a close game. He's a players coach and he wants lesser guys to succeed, to a fault. But then he'll do something brilliant like start Ingram at the point when he finally had enough of Ennis.

The fact that we went from the worst defensive team in 2017 to 12th in defensive efficiency this year shows that Luke is growing as a coach and that he has created a culture where players like playing with and for each other, and are willing to play hard every night. He may not be a great coach yet, but neither was Brad Stevens at the end of his second season with Boston.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

The incredible part is how the Celtics were able to get so many picks, lottery to late 1st, and miss so many chances on franchise-changing players.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject:

For every Boston and Utah. There is an Orlando, Brooklyn, Sacramento, and Phoenix.
You could put Minnesota on the 2nd list as well. Because without signing Butler (and to a lesser degree Gibson), they'd still be lottery bound this year.
No guarantees a rebuild through the draft works.
Even Philly wasted picks on Ok4, MCW, and Noel.
Denver probably won't make the playoffs again next year either. People forget MEM probably would've made the playoffs a 6th year in a row if Conley didn't go down.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

No guarantees a rebuild through the draft works.


Golden State Warriors.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

No guarantees a rebuild through the draft works.


Golden State Warriors.


Neither of their finals MVPs they drafted.
I get that they drafted Curry, Klay, Barnes, and Draymond. And developed those players. Like Pop did in SA. But what about the Cavs, the Heat, The last 5 Lakers chips, Dallas, the Celtics.

Rebuilding through the draft doesn't guarantee chips. There are other ways to win. I mean GS beat teams rebuilt through the draft on their way to winning chips. What about all those teams?
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
The incredible part is how the Celtics were able to get so many picks, lottery to late 1st, and miss so many chances on franchise-changing players.



Ainge has been average to more likely below average with his drafting. His strength has been in the trading side of the business.

McDonough (Suns GM) worked for the Celtics and is much the same in being good with trades, but struggling to put a quality roster together.


Lindesy (Utah GM) worked for the Spurs and appears to have adopted a similar philosophy.
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:

No guarantees a rebuild through the draft works.


Golden State Warriors.


Neither of their finals MVPs they drafted.
I get that they drafted Curry, Klay, Barnes, and Draymond. And developed those players. Like Pop did in SA. But what about the Cavs, the Heat, The last 5 Lakers chips, Dallas, the Celtics.

Rebuilding through the draft doesn't guarantee chips. There are other ways to win. I mean GS beat teams rebuilt through the draft on their way to winning chips. What about all those teams?


There is no formula to be honest.

Teams just have to find ways to maximize the opportunities that are presented to them in trade, free agency, and draft.

That's all it is.
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