NO!!! Lakers intrested in Francis
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bounty
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject:

And 1 wrote:
GameCock-MD wrote:
And 1 wrote:
62 wrote:
Bounty, do you think one basketball would be enough for Kobe and Francis?

Francis is a ballhog and not a very smart PG.

However, he's skilled and talented.

I believe he can run the team better than Odom.

There's no right position for Odom. He always seems to be out of position. That's simply because although he's multiskilled, none of his skills are polished enough.


I posted the following thoughts yesterday in this very thread to address another posters perception of Francis as being a "ballhog." Needless to say, I failed to get a response from the poster (or anyone else who shares the same viewpoint).

Though the below comments aren't directed at you, would you (or anyone else who believes that Francis can't exist with another baller on the roster) care to opine on them?


Your subjective analysis seems to ignore some improtant facts and history.

Prior to Steve Francis joining the Rockets in '99, Cutino Mobley (as a rookie) averaged 10 ppg while playing 30 mpg. He attempted 8.2 shots per game.

The following season ('99), when Francis arrived as a rookie, Mobley's scoring average jumped to 15.8 ppg in the same amount of minutes. His per game shot attempts increased to 12.5.

In the second year of the tandem, Mobley's average increased again to 19.5 ppg. In that season, he averaged 15.4 shots per game. Francis averaged only 15.2 shots per game.

Finally, in their 3rd year together, Mobley saw his highest scoring average at 21.7 ppg and his highest shot attempts per game (18.3). In an injury-plauged season, Francis only averaged 17.7 shots per game.

The '02-'03 season the introduction of Yao Ming. Both Francis' and Mobley's scoring numbers (as well as shot attempts) took significant hits. However, Francis' assist numbers remained on par with his prior years (6.2 apg).

These numbers would seem to suggest that Francis is more than willing to share the basketball and doesn't mind that another player is shooting more than he.

But to you, he's still an over-dribbling ball hog?

If you just don't like the guy - say it.

But don't come up with subjective observations that can't be supported.


I've said this before in other threads, but I believe it still bears mentioning. I find it more than a coincidence that Francis' sour attitude came to light with the arrival of Yao Ming and head coach Jeff Van Gundy. VG made it clear that he wanted Francis and Cuts to defer to Ming. Both obviously tried as witnessed in their decreased shot attempts. But it's got to be hard to do this when the player you're deferring to doesn't even have the stamina to play more than 2-1/2 quarters.

I'm not saying that it's right, but Francis had to feel as though he was slapped in the face.


Great post...

Something people who are not fans of PGs will not notice..


But in reality, no one can HONESTLY think that LA is trying to acquire Francis for this team...it's a 3-team, no doubt about it...


So the hate on Francis should be checked at the door...


I no longer believe that this is a "hate on Francis" issue.

The numbers and accolades speak for themselves as to who the better player is.

No, this is an OJ (Odom Jocker) issue we're dealing with.

There have been several posts authored by individuals claiming that they're not opposed to trading Odom - just not for Francis.

However, I suspect these posters are acutally closet OJ's. With the exception of Garnett, I suspect that any trade proposal involving Odom and say...K-Mart, Lewis, Pierce, etc., would be met with the same unfounded perceptions designed to make their favorite player look like an All-Star.

BTW, I'm still waiting for someone who believes that Francis is a ballhog to address his play with Cutino Mobley.

Not only Mobley. lets not forget how distraught Yao was when SF got traded
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:37 pm    Post subject: Francis would be a good fit

The Lakers at the point now have Smush Parker (little basketball IQ) and Sasha vujisucks as the backup (He should not even be in the NBA)I read and hear how LO is so versitile but he is a very passive and low IQ player where Francis is an aggresive and Alpha player....This trade if if goes down would make Smush a backup (give him more drive to try harder) and Sasha would finally be out of the rotation (I could count so many nights he shoots like 2-7)....Replacing Lamaar would not be hard to do.....

PF-Brynum-Brown
sf-Cook
c-Mihm
sg-Kobe
pg-Francis

I could easily see Cook as a sf and Brown if he only thought of def and rebounds aka Rodman and Wallace
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cmoney
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:39 pm    Post subject:

You would have to change your offense.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject:

A-Bomb is a center.

Consider that his weakness, being young, is defensive rotations - and that's
even more reason to NOT put him at PF like you're saying.

Oh, and it's not "Brynum"
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PopcornMachine
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:59 pm    Post subject:

No, he wouldn't.
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:00 pm    Post subject:

Oh and...

PopcornMachine wrote:
No, he wouldn't.


^^^
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Sage_10
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject:

This teams problem is defense. Unless Steve has become a defensive stopper I don't see the need to bring him in.
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tony smith
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject:

sodapoppenski wrote:
Oh and...

PopcornMachine wrote:
No, he wouldn't.


^^^
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KobeButler
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:02 pm    Post subject:

news flash Stevie Francis has low iq on the floor too.
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:08 pm    Post subject:

I just think it would be easier to replace LO and upgrade our PG big time. Smush is a turnover machine with and Sasha just plain cannot play basketball....Bynum (Sorry he has one of those names I will misspell 100 times:) you are right is a natural C so I hope they use him as a backup C and Brown at PF....Sasha if you look at his last 10 games is shooting I think like 30% or less
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Hydro21
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:30 pm    Post subject:

chazz wrote:
I just think it would be easier to replace LO and upgrade our PG big time. Smush is a turnover machine with and Sasha just plain cannot play basketball....Bynum (Sorry he has one of those names I will misspell 100 times:) you are right is a natural C so I hope they use him as a backup C and Brown at PF....Sasha if you look at his last 10 games is shooting I think like 30% or less



Am i the only one who wonders why phil actaully plays sasha. i think he is useless
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:34 pm    Post subject:

Am i the only one who wonders why phil actaully plays sasha. i think he is useless[/quote]

H-I cannot stand Sasha even being part of the Lakers. He is just the worst ball player out there all the time no def, no shooting skills, and no fire in him and i hate how he bows his head down all the time when Kobe barks at him
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sodapoppenski
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject:

Hydro21 wrote:
chazz wrote:
I just think it would be easier to replace LO and upgrade our PG big time. Smush is a turnover machine with and Sasha just plain cannot play basketball....Bynum (Sorry he has one of those names I will misspell 100 times:) you are right is a natural C so I hope they use him as a backup C and Brown at PF....Sasha if you look at his last 10 games is shooting I think like 30% or less



Am i the only one who wonders why phil actaully plays sasha. i think he is useless


He contains perimeter players better than Smush. That's the main reason.
Smush isn't a flat-out terrible defender like some would have you think,
but he needs a LOT of work.

Smush tends to overpursue on defense, which is part of what keeps his
steals so high (another good example of why going to stats to evaluate
players on defense doesn't always tell ya the whole story).

Right now Smush is the better player than Sasha overall, and that's
saying something in all the wrong ways

But if ya want an answer, it's containing perimeter guys that Sasha
has the edge on - which is why you'll still keep seeing him get solid
minutes against the right situations.
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Sage_10
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject:

chazz wrote:
Am i the only one who wonders why phil actaully plays sasha. i think he is useless


H-I cannot stand Sasha even being part of the Lakers. He is just the worst ball player out there all the time no def, no shooting skills, and no fire in him and i hate how he bows his head down all the time when Kobe barks at him[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing but I was thinking it about Puke Walton. He has been really sucking it up lately.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject:

Lakers need Francis, Kobe and Phil would make it work.

Lamar averages 13 pts on a team where he's not relied on to score and gets open looks all the time.

Francis averages 16 on a team where he's the main scoring threat and expected to get others involved. Still he manages more assists than Lamar. Get him the open looks other players get and he easily averages 20 pts with the Lakers.

Francis was a top 10 defender last year at the PG position. Check 82games Hollinger ratings.

Francis is one of the better rebounding gaurds in the NBA.

On talent upgrade alone, Francis would ensure the Lakers make the playoffs.
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject:

Walton has sucked it up as well but not as bad as Sasha...Both should not be in the rotation at all.....I hear Von Wafer is excellent in practice but horrible during game situations....I hope he cures that:)......Changing the subject a tad I do not think Mitch Kupsucks has made one single good move while being GM for the Lakers.....>Look at Jerry West, he goes to Memphis and created an exciting team where Mitch has imploded this team so bad that Kobe HAS to shoot the ball for this team to win.....Lakers do need to think DEF but the def would improve if they stop "Chucking" the ball from 20 ft and away...they need an inside post player
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chazz
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:16 pm    Post subject:

You are right showtime-I would love to see Francis in a Laker uniform---I would see him as a 18 pg 8 assist kind of guy....After watching the Atlanta game and Smuch missing that crucial dunk and he jsut had that smirk on his face (The king of smirk that George has all the time) they need a change.....LO is just plain soft and horrible dicision making at the end of games
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:13 pm    Post subject:

Showtime_Returns wrote:
Lakers need Francis, Kobe and Phil would make it work.

Lamar averages 13 pts on a team where he's not relied on to score and gets open looks all the time.

Francis averages 16 on a team where he's the main scoring threat and expected to get others involved. Still he manages more assists than Lamar. Get him the open looks other players get and he easily averages 20 pts with the Lakers.

Francis was a top 10 defender last year at the PG position. Check 82games Hollinger ratings.

Francis is one of the better rebounding gaurds in the NBA.

On talent upgrade alone, Francis would ensure the Lakers make the playoffs.



Steve Francis
2005-06
Statistics
PPG 16.3
RPG 4.80
APG 5.7
EFF + 16.38


Lamar Odom
2005-06
Statistics
PPG 13.9
RPG 9.20
APG 5.3
EFF + 20.02

Lets see...

You gain 3pts with "little Stevie"
You lose 5 ribbies with "little Stevie"
You gain .4 asst with the "little Stevie" OOOOoooowwwwwww!

Steve's Dad must be working for the Hollinger people because, he has never been an infamous defender.

Another great point to exploit here is that with Odom not vigorously looking for his shot as he is running the offense he is only a couple of points behind "little Stevie" who is not going to ever be extremely interested in running anybodies offense to long with the exception of "little Stevies" offense...

This could be the most insane argument to ever grace this board.
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THE_SHOES
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject:

bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:


Try bounty but, if you were running for an election right now with that platform you would lose by a landslide!

I know you asked to have my sigs moved
but you dont seem to get it. I DONT CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK. What election? Are you 5? SF>LO. period. You have yet to make anargument as to why he isnt. You cant Tell me where LO is better. You cant. Either validate an argument or go away. Please stop crying its a lil bit weak


First of all I could care less about you're juvenille siggie there bro or, maybe you wouldn't have had it as long as you did.

Next you are the one with the constant tears. All you've been able to talk about all season is getting rid of LO. So who is crying again?
Also I got news for all of ya'll... LO will be here next week as well!

In fact you're going to be beyond crying soon my man, you are about to become a complete basket case. The Lakers no better than to add Stevie to this team, I'm just in this silly ass argument for the pure pleasure of being absolutely right...
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bounty
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:20 pm    Post subject:

THE_SHOES wrote:
bounty wrote:
THE_SHOES wrote:


Try bounty but, if you were running for an election right now with that platform you would lose by a landslide!

I know you asked to have my sigs moved
but you dont seem to get it. I DONT CARE WHAT OTHERS THINK. What election? Are you 5? SF>LO. period. You have yet to make anargument as to why he isnt. You cant Tell me where LO is better. You cant. Either validate an argument or go away. Please stop crying its a lil bit weak


First of all I could care less about you're juvenille siggie there bro or, maybe you wouldn't have had it as long as you did.

Next you are the one with the constant tears. All you've been able to talk about all season is getting rid of LO. So who is crying again?
Also I got news for all of ya'll... LO will be here next week as well!

In fact you're going to be beyond crying soon my man, you are about to become a complete basket case. The Lakers no better than to add Stevie to this team, I'm just in this silly ass argument for the pure pleasure of being absolutely right...

OK. The argument where LO will be an all-star this year? Or the argument where LO will get the tri by the all-star break? Maybe it was the guarantee, errrrr I mean you said you would disappear if LO didnt show up. Why are you still here? Lets do this, dont respond to my posts. I am sorry having your quotes in my sig offended you. lets just leave each other out of it. Everything... EVERYTHING you claimed LO would be hasnt come to fruition. If it had he wouldnt be getting shopped. The_shoes, Im sorry, I didnt mean to offend
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LakerLanny
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:19 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
tony smith wrote:
i don't believe it. phil holds b-ball IQ above athleticism--how the hell do you think walton has stayed on--francis is a complete over-dribbling, ball-dominating, no d playing, knuckle-head. he ain't learning the nuances of the triangle and phil knows it.


I'm not pro francis, I don't like this trade either. However, using b-ball IQ as reasoning why we should keep Lamar is kinda funny.


It is the new 2007 plan, it's called "Assemble a bunch of mis matched parts around Kobe and Pray" aka KupchakSpeak
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:26 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
It is the new 2007 plan, it's called "Assemble a bunch of mis matched parts around Kobe and Pray" aka KupchakSpeak

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mm708
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject:

All the real insiders must have taken a vacation.
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject:

are there anymore PG's out there that we like?
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mm708
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject:

No we can't have any of the good ones.
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