what happens if randle takes the QO?
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TDRock
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
TDRock wrote:
What is QO?

Qualifying Offer.


Thanks
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Judah wrote:
Mintz would never let Randle do that. He'd be the worst agent in the league if he did. There's just no incentive for Randle to do it.


The one incentive is what Omar said--he could guarantee the team of his choosing after this season--but I agree, it's just too much to risk. But in theory, the Lakers could match any offer and then trade him next season, and then he might get stuck in a place where he really doesn't want to be.

Still, he could be looking at a $70MM guarantee (or more), compared to, what, less than $5MM? I just can't see him doing that.
actually he has one more thing to gain.

if they get two max guys and keep randle next season and lets for fun. the lakers win the championship next season. Randle can put up his exact numbers as he did down the stretch and he will become an allstar, all nba 2nd team player(at worst). just be the fact that now everyone on the planet is watching him. for one he's playing for the lakers, for 2 whatever 2 max guys fanbase is watching, and 3..everyone know who you are when you're a starter on a laker championship team. EVERYONE. This will get you votes into places you may have no business being in. which will boost your earning potential the following year and for years to come. and lastly, he gets a chance to actually win something. there's no guarantee you ever get a chance to play with 2 other star players in your career or win get close enough to win a ring.



He really has no incentive to not listen to offers, and I don't see why he would pass up a good one. He knows the Lakers can match, and if they don't it means they don't want him all that much.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject:

He's not taking the QO if a team offers him 4 years, 70+ million.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Randle is with Mintz, not Rich Paul. He's not going to take a QO, unless all his offers were lowball, which they won't be. Rich Paul told KCP to decline 4yrs/80m. I can see Randle taking anything north of 4yrs/62m. Why forfeit a year of your health and your youth, especially when you know a freak accident can occur at any moment.


Rich Paul screwed big time with KCP and Nerlens Noel. Look ar the contracts he made them decline, damn.
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
Bard207 wrote:
Jsthornton7 wrote:
I can’t imagine he would decline the qualifying offer. Especially as a player who knows what it’s like to miss an entire season due to injury. If you have roughly $80m on the table you take it.

I feel like when it comes to Randle, my preference would be for the Lakers to work something out before someone makes an offer in RFA as I think that will ultimately provide better value.




I am trying to understand the reasoning behind your post and haven't gotten it yet.

For the season that just ended, he made $4,149,242.*

His qualifying offer will be $5,564,134 which is an increase of about $1.4 million. That will be about $3 million below the non-taxpayer MLE and slightly above where the taxpayer MLE will be next season.

A qualifying offer contract is for one season, so it isn't the contract that will have a $80 million payout.

______________

* I know about the conforming increases for players with legacy rookie scale contracts, but I am trying to keep this simple and straightforward.
Expanding the conversation to cover the conforming increases could lead to more confusion.


Randle is gonna get paid this summer. By declining the offer and becoming an unrestricted free agent next offseason instead he risks injury or a decline in performance.


Quote:

I can’t imagine he would decline the qualifying offer.



This reads better to me


I can’t imagine he would accept the qualifying offer.


Correct yes I misspoke.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:22 pm    Post subject:

If you re-sign Randle he has a first year of the 12.4M Cap hold no matter what you paid him, and then whatever you've paid him for the next 3 years will count against the cap just as it is.

Here's the thing, if he takes the QO and you DON'T sign two max contract guys, and Randle builds on the year he had this season in consistent starting minutes, you are going to wind up instead of paying him 17-20M a year(with the first year counting 12.4 against the cap) you will need to pay him 30M a year just to retain him and across a max 5 year deal.

No matter how much some would like to pretend that won't be the case, if Randle comes out next year in starter minutes a better version of what he was this season, he's going to play like a max player and he's going to demand that kind of contract.

So what would you rather want.

Randle for 12.4M his first season and 17-20M for the next 3.

or

Randle for 8M his first season and 30M for the next 5.

Which is the one that makes you the most sense financially while you retain him across the beginning of his prime years?
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 5:55 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
If you re-sign Randle he has a first year of the 12.4M Cap hold no matter what you paid him, and then whatever you've paid him for the next 3 years will count against the cap just as it is.

Here's the thing, ifrs?


The one exception is if he signs a contract with another team. We would then have 48 hours to match. During that 48 hour period his cap hold would be 12.4 million. However as soon as we match, the cap hold would go up to whatever his salary is in the first year of his new contract would be, assuming it's more than 12.4 million
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
If you re-sign Randle he has a first year of the 12.4M Cap hold no matter what you paid him


That's not how it works.

Quote:
Free agents continue to be included in team salary until one of the following happens:

The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the team salary reflects the player's new salary rather than his cap hold.

The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes his new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

The team renounces the player.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q38
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Bard207
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
MJST wrote:
If you re-sign Randle he has a first year of the 12.4M Cap hold no matter what you paid him


That's not how it works.

Quote:
Free agents continue to be included in team salary until one of the following happens:

The player signs a new contract with the same team. When this happens, the team salary reflects the player's new salary rather than his cap hold.

The player signs with a different team. As soon as this happens, the player becomes his new team's problem, and his salary no longer counts against his old team.

The team renounces the player.


http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q38


I have gone down that road before about the cap hold vs salary. You might be able to temporarily stop the misconception, but I would expect it to eventually be posted again.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
I don't see Randle taking the QO. He has nothing to gain unless all he receives are lowball offers, which won't happen. Plus he's knows better than anyone about freak injuries in the NBA.


Why would he take qualifying offer? The guy has a wife and baby and is looking for a long term deal and security. Sure he wants to be a Laker but he isn't going to give up 3 years of security. I think the Lakers will make him a guarantee so that he stays put. If they don't make the guarantee I think he goes out and gets a qualifying offer and forces their hand. That is assuming there is a decent qualifying offer to be had. Most people would bet on him being able to get a good offer from either Atlanta or Dallas. Speed is your friend when getting a offer as it will force the Lakers hand at the worse possible time. If Dallas really wants JR they will sign him to an Offer so that he Lakers will not have time to respond and sign a Max FA.

Either way it doesn't seem like it will be a long drawn out process once Free Agency starts.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject:

I'm quite certain the Lakers would like to keep him but the issue would be that he may get a contract offer from a team on July 1 that is so good, that he would right away commit. The way the interested team could make this offer work for them is to have a front loaded contract as well perhaps even pay him all the way to the max. What is Julius' max? Dallas may be a team willing to give him that much.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 9:35 am    Post subject:

Isn't the $5.5M figure only what his hit against the cap would be since it was in his original deal, but he would really get some 25-35% more than that due to the raise given to the players on a rookie wage scale in the new CBA? (Teams aren't being made to take the cap hit for existing deals that got the raise. For example Ingram makes more than Lonzo, but on the cap it looks like he makes less.

Quote:
Existing Rookie Scale contracts will be amended to reflect the 45% increase (phased in over the three-year period).

LINK
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
What is Julius' max? Dallas may be a team willing to give him that much.


25m for him and the Aaron Gordons & Lavines of the world.

I'm hoping Dallas drafts a big like Bagley or even Ayton that would make Julius unnecessary. Harrison Barnes is even playing PF for them. Although I guess one shouldn't put it past Cuban to do it just to spite the new front office
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The only way he’d do it imo is if they talk him into helping out for a year. Given the up and downs of the relationship and the risk involved, not likely.


Even if they talked him into helping out for a year, they'd do it with a 1+1, not the QO. He'd at least have a little insurance that way.

But that said, there's no way he's taking the QO. At best he's giving them some time before signing an offer sheet with someone else.

BTW, I once talked to Kobe about "helping the team out" in that way -- before he signed his last extension, he could have taken the minimum for a year, and then he could have re-signed at the max for three years (even though he only intended to play for two), effectively making it up on the back end. Doing that would have let the team chase some major free agents to support him in his last two seasons.

There was absolutely no way Kobe would have contemplated that. Even as I explained it, it was a non-starter for him -- even though the money would have worked out the same in the long run, and he would have had a better team for his last two years. And Kobe had already made his bank for his career.

Now you can say that that's just Kobe, but I think it's more indicative of players in general.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 11:42 am    Post subject:

My best, most transcendent players in NBA2k always accepted the qualifying offers.

Randle isn't some mindless AI that devalues his worth, unfortunately.
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Randle is with Mintz, not Rich Paul. He's not going to take a QO, unless all his offers were lowball, which they won't be. Rich Paul told KCP to decline 4yrs/80m. I can see Randle taking anything north of 4yrs/62m. Why forfeit a year of your health and your youth, especially when you know a freak accident can occur at any moment.


Rich Paul screwed big time with KCP and Nerlens Noel. Look ar the contracts he made them decline, damn.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748064-nerlens-noels-big-money-contract-chase-takes-wrong-turn-in-dallas

Noel fired his agent and switched to Rich Paul after turning down the contract. Rich Paul had nothing to do with that
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject:

WindyCityLakerFan wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Randle is with Mintz, not Rich Paul. He's not going to take a QO, unless all his offers were lowball, which they won't be. Rich Paul told KCP to decline 4yrs/80m. I can see Randle taking anything north of 4yrs/62m. Why forfeit a year of your health and your youth, especially when you know a freak accident can occur at any moment.


Rich Paul screwed big time with KCP and Nerlens Noel. Look ar the contracts he made them decline, damn.


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2748064-nerlens-noels-big-money-contract-chase-takes-wrong-turn-in-dallas

Noel fired his agent and switched to Rich Paul after turning down the contract. Rich Paul had nothing to do with that


My bad, didn't know about that.
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

Man these NBA salaries have gotten INSANE. How bitter are the former players that signed 4 year / 20 Million dollar deals back in the day?
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

Hell freezes over?
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