Shocking...another school shooting today
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The Lebrons
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Huskers wrote:
Still holds true so many years later

Quote:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.


And such a sad quote from a survivor today:

Quote:
When asked whether she was surprised by the attack, she said:

It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too. I wasn’t surprised, I was just scared.

America, 2018: Where kids already just assume they’re going to be shot at in their classrooms.


https://splinternews.com/santa-fe-shooting-survivor-sums-up-americas-gun-crisis-1826143245


What is worse is that they are being shot by their classmates, not some evil criminal. Just another screwed up kid. I will continue to blame my generation for letting so many kids grow up without suitable moral compasses.


Maybe your generation can start with the basics by safely storing their guns?
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ani007
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:30 pm    Post subject:

i think it was on this forum where people were discussing smart guns? that sure sounds like a good idea i think i even remember obama talking about it in that town hall like discussion with cooper i think where he was like yeah of course it's a conspiracy i'm trying to take everyone's guns i'm leaving pretty soon when was this supposed to have happened lol

but seriously wouldn't identifying each gun and bullet and having only the owner access it radically simplify crime investigation, improper third party use, statistical analysis iono

but obviously that would be seen as a huge encroachment by NRA and the like if you can't even prosecute someone for improper storage...wtheck how is that not negligence.....aren't parents supposed to be responsible for minors as well individuals their guns?

it is truly an upside down world we live in feels like the begg of a twilight zone episode imagine if you will a hateful old Orange won the presidency of the United States of an America, a vacuous narcissist wrapped in vanity inside a cheeseburger

where are leaders like Churchill...at least his casual racism that led to deaths had competence and soaring oratorical skills to back it up
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 9:40 pm    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Huskers wrote:
Still holds true so many years later

Quote:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.


And such a sad quote from a survivor today:

Quote:
When asked whether she was surprised by the attack, she said:

It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too. I wasn’t surprised, I was just scared.

America, 2018: Where kids already just assume they’re going to be shot at in their classrooms.


https://splinternews.com/santa-fe-shooting-survivor-sums-up-americas-gun-crisis-1826143245


What is worse is that they are being shot by their classmates, not some evil criminal. Just another screwed up kid. I will continue to blame my generation for letting so many kids grow up without suitable moral compasses.


Maybe your generation can start with the basics by safely storing their guns?


his generation? The kid was 17 years old....the guns were reported to be his fathers.....his father could be a Millennial, GenX or even a baby boomer at that age.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject:

The kid reportedly wore a trench coat and army boots to school routinely...and even sprinkled in some on the nose t-shirts with "born to kill" graphics....feel like we have seen this before.....seems a little similar to exactly where we started in 1999. There were signs this time.....there have been even bigger signs in the past. The kid used a shotgun, revolver, and molotov cocktail's.....these are weapons Wyatt Earp had at his disposal in Tombstone, Arizona.

I do not know the perfect solution, but the only one that I can think of that will be impactful is going to be extremely expensive.....and that is to undertake a massive security/infrastructure plan to limit who, what, and when someone and something can enter school property. It will require going into every middle and high school in America and building new infrastructure and security measures to ensure it is as difficult to get a weapon on property as it is an airplane.

Honestly cannot even imagine the cost....but everything else seems like political posturing to me. We wanted to stop terrorists from getting weapons on planes and overtaking planes to use them as weapons, and we seem to get that one under control pretty fast. I went to public schools in the North where campuses are more enclosed and confined to large limited structures....and I imagine those may be a little easier to secure....but in the schools I attended in the South, and I assume out West, most of the schools are open and campuses include many structures connected by external walkways....and I would think those will be more difficult to secure....but it can be done.

When I think about how easy it would be for me or anyone with bad intentions to enter Campus and buildings unimpeded carrying whatever I chose at my daughters high school....which is less than 6 years old.....it is kind of shocking. There are so called deterrents (visitor check in, etc.)....but most of them you actually have to choose to properly enter to be hindered by them.

Finally, I understand some hate guns, and feel like they are fully to blame, etc. Whatever your thoughts are in that area, the reality is shotguns and revolvers are never going anywhere during our lifetimes...full stop, there may be legislation that limits a little here and there....but hoping that guns are out of the picture is like hoping to win the battle against STD's with abstinence or battling the drug problem by just eliminating all of the illegal drugs. We have the most success with STD's with knowledge & protection....and likewise, only more security for our schools will have a real and immediate impact.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:28 pm    Post subject:

20,000 wrote:
I am waiting for all the thoughts and prayers to make it all better


The first wind I caught of this was a group of town/state officials at a podium, each one of them asking for and giving thoughts and prayers. Weren't even trying to be subtle about it.
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:51 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
20,000 wrote:
I am waiting for all the thoughts and prayers to make it all better


The first wind I caught of this was a group of town/state officials at a podium, each one of them asking for and giving thoughts and prayers. Weren't even trying to be subtle about it.



They are keywords that trigger NRA checks to flow in
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Something has to be done about the kids bullying and having "werid" kids with death to all on their clothing

there is time to not let any kid become an outcast no matter what it takes



$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Politicians raking in the cash while schoolteachers work two jobs and look on craigslist for free school supplies for their kids...
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject:

Also, I know that allowing teachers to carry fire arms is a sensitive subject....and I personally do not think it would be effective to have untrained or even limited trained teachers responsible for protection with firearms. That being said, I have considered if there could be any advantages to having fully trained teachers in schools carrying firearms.....now when I say fully trained, I mean like becoming reserve law enforcement officers....which would require going through some special version of a police academy. Training that would require like a one year commitment of part time (evening/weekend) training and education. Also those teachers that gained this training, and accepted a role within a school would have higher earnings....like a material higher wage.

I could envision each school having x number of positions open based on size and layout of campus....their classrooms being strategically placed on campus. To be clear....I am not talking about your average 60 year old biology teacher taking a few firearm training classes and packing heat at school. I am talking about individuals that go through legitimate law enforcement education and training...and have to apply for these special limited positions. They literally would almost have a dual career as in being quasi law enforcement on school property. It would be similar to actually assigning more resource officers (Deputies) to a school, except instead of incurring over $100K (salary, benefits, etc.) for each additional law enforcement professional who would have little to do 90% of their time.....the special teacher positions cost could be limited to an additional $10-$20K to their salary and continued training.

I think the question would be are there be enough educators that would desire these positions across the country.
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:28 am    Post subject:

Yeah, by all means let's convert our schools into armed fortresses and turn teachers into law enforcement officers rather than actually deal with the real issues at their source . . .
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject:

Following to the logical conclusion that we can armor schools enough to stop attacks there, are the attacker just going to stop and say, ok, I guess I’m done? Or are they going to attack the next vulnerable target? Churches, malls, the grocery store, anywhere people meet in moderate to large numbers? Will we then be armoring them?
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject:

As much as this is about guns it is obviously More about Mental Health issues and human traits

Having big enough band aids for the dyke won't stop it from bursting
Waiting to put a bullet in a mentally deranged child is not how we evolve pragmatically

Stop any and all Bullying IMMEDIATELY. Punish the parents is what needs done.

No more (bleep) from coaches or old people who think bullying is Normal

Time to evolve together
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

The Lebrons wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Huskers wrote:
Still holds true so many years later

Quote:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.


And such a sad quote from a survivor today:

Quote:
When asked whether she was surprised by the attack, she said:

It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too. I wasn’t surprised, I was just scared.

America, 2018: Where kids already just assume they’re going to be shot at in their classrooms.


https://splinternews.com/santa-fe-shooting-survivor-sums-up-americas-gun-crisis-1826143245


What is worse is that they are being shot by their classmates, not some evil criminal. Just another screwed up kid. I will continue to blame my generation for letting so many kids grow up without suitable moral compasses.


Maybe your generation can start with the basics by safely storing their guns?


I knew I could count on some not getting it. Part of the problem, not the solution.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

FWIW
JJ WATTS
Has offered to pay for all the funerals
What a world sigh
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Huskers wrote:
Still holds true so many years later

Quote:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.


And such a sad quote from a survivor today:

Quote:
When asked whether she was surprised by the attack, she said:

It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too. I wasn’t surprised, I was just scared.

America, 2018: Where kids already just assume they’re going to be shot at in their classrooms.


https://splinternews.com/santa-fe-shooting-survivor-sums-up-americas-gun-crisis-1826143245


What is worse is that they are being shot by their classmates, not some evil criminal. Just another screwed up kid. I will continue to blame my generation for letting so many kids grow up without suitable moral compasses.


Maybe your generation can start with the basics by safely storing their guns?


I knew I could count on some not getting it. Part of the problem, not the solution.


I think he is saying yes the kid was forsaken by society
But even worse by the people who didn't lock up their guns
^^the people you were saying need to teach those kids morals. Leaving guns unlocked and where kids find them is low on the morals test
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject:

If a teacher had to pull a gun on a student it would be a shoot first ask questions later

I don't know if I would be able to shoot to injure or would shoot the kill immediately

^^^ that is the world we have created

Shoot the kids instead of doing more to help them not feel so left out and unacceptable
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Following to the logical conclusion that we can armor schools enough to stop attacks there, are the attacker just going to stop and say, ok, I guess I’m done? Or are they going to attack the next vulnerable target? Churches, malls, the grocery store, anywhere people meet in moderate to large numbers? Will we then be armoring them?


Here’s the problem: What other realistic option is available? We are not going to ban firearms. This kid did not use assault weapons, and we aren’t going to ban those anyway. Background checks would not stop something like this. What other option do we have if we want to stop or at least reduce school shootings?

I don’t like the idea of arming teachers. However, if the only real world alternative is to do nothing, then arming teachers needs to be something that we consider. The fact that it is an imperfect solution and that it does not address every possible target does not change the fact that we have no other realistic options on the table.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject:

His ex-girlfriend was among those shot. Domestic violence is another common thread with most of these angry (mostly white male) shooters.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Huskers wrote:
Still holds true so many years later

Quote:

(((Dan Hodges)))
‏Verified account @DPJHodges

In retrospect Sandy Hook marked the end of the US gun control debate. Once America decided killing children was bearable, it was over.


And such a sad quote from a survivor today:

Quote:
When asked whether she was surprised by the attack, she said:

It’s been happening everywhere. I’ve always kind of felt like eventually it was going to happen here too. I wasn’t surprised, I was just scared.

America, 2018: Where kids already just assume they’re going to be shot at in their classrooms.


https://splinternews.com/santa-fe-shooting-survivor-sums-up-americas-gun-crisis-1826143245


What is worse is that they are being shot by their classmates, not some evil criminal. Just another screwed up kid. I will continue to blame my generation for letting so many kids grow up without suitable moral compasses.


Maybe your generation can start with the basics by safely storing their guns?


I knew I could count on some not getting it. Part of the problem, not the solution.


I think he is saying yes the kid was forsaken by society
But even worse by the people who didn't lock up their guns
^^the people you were saying need to teach those kids morals. Leaving guns unlocked and where kids find them is low on the morals test


If a kid is properly cared for you shouldn’t have to lock anything up. That includes mental health issues, they need to be cared for. The problem isn’t the guns, it is caring for our youth. They should be our focus.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

We treat our children like criminals

Public Defenders and School Teachers.. same workload same results

Underpaid and overworked

While Politicians increase their own pay and bank accounts leaving the actual citizens they were paid to represent high and dry.

FWIW, when was the last time a african american child shot up his whole school?

Entitlement issues with white folks
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Following to the logical conclusion that we can armor schools enough to stop attacks there, are the attacker just going to stop and say, ok, I guess I’m done? Or are they going to attack the next vulnerable target? Churches, malls, the grocery store, anywhere people meet in moderate to large numbers? Will we then be armoring them?


Here’s the problem: What other realistic option is available? We are not going to ban firearms. This kid did not use assault weapons, and we aren’t going to ban those anyway. Background checks would not stop something like this. What other option do we have if we want to stop or at least reduce school shootings?

I don’t like the idea of arming teachers. However, if the only real world alternative is to do nothing, then arming teachers needs to be something that we consider. The fact that it is an imperfect solution and that it does not address every possible target does not change the fact that we have no other realistic options on the table.


I have to agree with Omar, arming teachers isn’t the answer. Imagine a teacher mistakenly shooting an innocent student, two lives would be ruined. One solution could be smarter design of schools, my kids were fortunate to go to a new school and it was designed so that in every classroom there is a corner that cannot be seen from any door or window. Of course that requires money and spending on education is something that politicians like to talk about but not participate in.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 12:29 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I have to agree with Omar, arming teachers isn’t the answer. Imagine a teacher mistakenly shooting an innocent student, two lives would be ruined. One solution could be smarter design of schools, my kids were fortunate to go to a new school and it was designed so that in every classroom there is a corner that cannot be seen from any door or window. Of course that requires money and spending on education is something that politicians like to talk about but not participate in.


I'm not sure how that would change anything, except maybe giving some of the kids a place to hide once the shooting started. Anyway, there are around 100,000 public schools in the US. We would have needed to start this 50-60 years ago.

So the question remains: Other than arming teachers, what are the real world alternatives? I'm not advocating arming teachers, though my concern is different from yours. I'm much more concerned that some kid would get his hands on the teacher's firearm. No matter how much training we give the teachers, someone would screw up. We would have many more injuries and fatalities from this than from a teacher shooting innocent kids.

And then we have this classic.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject:

The whole, "let's turn the schools into fortresses" approach is totally missing the point. It's like addressing the problem of sexual assault and harassment in the workplace by saying that "guys will be guys" and thus we should segregate the women and men at work as opposed to addressing those problems themselves.

Quote:
I'm not advocating arming teachers, though my concern is different from yours. I'm much more concerned that some kid would get his hands on the teacher's firearm. No matter how much training we give the teachers, someone would screw up. We would have many more injuries and fatalities from this than from a teacher shooting innocent kids.


Wrong. Here's the obvious problem created by arming teachers
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject:

The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. That’s maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because that’s been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject:

As long as you have armed people looking to attack and you have even the smallest scintilla of a freedom of movement, you are going to have soft targets. You simply can’t fortify every gathering or confluence of people.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:23 am    Post subject:

The issue of gun control has been talked up endlessly. More of us feel there should be some kind of gun control, but we also know it ain't happening any time soon. It also won't be a panacea for these shootings, although it could help somewhat.

Some people on this thread talked about mental health. There needs to be an overhaul of our whole mental health system, especially when it comes to kids who have issues. I have 3 MDs in my family, two of whom work in mental health. The standard approach is to send a kid to a govt-funded shrink who only has enough time to see him/her for 30 minutes, slap them with a diagnosis that may or may not be accurate, give them potentially dangerous drugs and so on. They don't really take a look at what's happening at home. I'm starting to feel like many mental health issues in our society are at least partly caused by unhealthy family environments at home during childhood. Obviously some people are just lunatics who have something that's off with them genetically. But as ventura said, there are too many parents not raising kids right, and they are also many unreported cases of abuse and neglect.
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