Shocking...another school shooting today
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
If you hold the owner of a gun responsible for whatever happens with that gun then things will change. There will always be unregistered guns but none of those have been used in the biggest mass killings of even the last 2 years. We don't want your guns but we sure as hell want you to treat them as a weapon built for the sole purpose of killing something or someone.


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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. Thatís maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because thatís been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.


Eh. You're just talking around the issue. School shootings are a problem. What is your realistic solution? Don't tell me about the Maginot line or whatever. Tell me what you propose to do that has a realistic chance of happening.

At some point, state legislatures are going to start doing something. That's the nature of politicians. They want to tell their constituents that they are addressing the issues. They are not going to ban firearms, because the public likes guns and because the Second Amendment makes it a non-starter. They are not going to ban assault weapons, and that would not have made a difference in Santa Fe anyway. All of the other stuff in the gun control agenda -- background checks, etc. -- is not applicable.

The one feasible response is arming teachers. They won't arm every teacher, and they will have all sorts of training requirements and the like. But the legislatures will be able to tell the public that they have done something. Who knows? It might work. I don't really support it, but I realize that the alternative -- doing nothing -- is unappealing.

If you don't have a feasible alternative, and you just want to criticize the response (or talk about banning firearms or whatnot), that's fine. But you aren't occupying the higher ground this time.


No, the person talking around the problem is yourself. School shootings are not the problem. There are shootings at various venues, so clearly schools aren't the problem, the shooting is. It doesn't take much thought to realize the common denominator in shootings is the guns. The logical extension of that is to address the actual issue . . . the guns themselves.

This whole, "you can't do anything about the guns so let's legislate everything else" is BS. It victimizes the populace in order to pacify a segment of citizens who are too enamored of their weapons, the sole purpose of which is to kill.

To propose that turning public venues into "shooting proof" fortresses is such an ass backward approach to the problem that it isn't even funny.

Address the actual problems, not the occasional locations. That is the blatantly obvious approach - at least to those truly interested in solving the problem rather than dancing around trying to appease those who refuse to be a part of the solution.

That IS the high ground.


No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:

No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.


As true as that maybe, it ignores the obvious fact that it will be harder for them to increase their body counts. If the method to mass killings wasn't made easier by guns, why is that ALWAYS the weapon of choice?
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject:

Interestingly, the Venn diagram between staunch gun advocates and people who bridle at ďhaving to payĒ to take care of other people like the mentally ill is mostly just one circle.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. Thatís maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because thatís been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.


Eh. You're just talking around the issue. School shootings are a problem. What is your realistic solution? Don't tell me about the Maginot line or whatever. Tell me what you propose to do that has a realistic chance of happening.

At some point, state legislatures are going to start doing something. That's the nature of politicians. They want to tell their constituents that they are addressing the issues. They are not going to ban firearms, because the public likes guns and because the Second Amendment makes it a non-starter. They are not going to ban assault weapons, and that would not have made a difference in Santa Fe anyway. All of the other stuff in the gun control agenda -- background checks, etc. -- is not applicable.

The one feasible response is arming teachers. They won't arm every teacher, and they will have all sorts of training requirements and the like. But the legislatures will be able to tell the public that they have done something. Who knows? It might work. I don't really support it, but I realize that the alternative -- doing nothing -- is unappealing.

If you don't have a feasible alternative, and you just want to criticize the response (or talk about banning firearms or whatnot), that's fine. But you aren't occupying the higher ground this time.


No, the person talking around the problem is yourself. School shootings are not the problem. There are shootings at various venues, so clearly schools aren't the problem, the shooting is. It doesn't take much thought to realize the common denominator in shootings is the guns. The logical extension of that is to address the actual issue . . . the guns themselves.

This whole, "you can't do anything about the guns so let's legislate everything else" is BS. It victimizes the populace in order to pacify a segment of citizens who are too enamored of their weapons, the sole purpose of which is to kill.

To propose that turning public venues into "shooting proof" fortresses is such an ass backward approach to the problem that it isn't even funny.

Address the actual problems, not the occasional locations. That is the blatantly obvious approach - at least to those truly interested in solving the problem rather than dancing around trying to appease those who refuse to be a part of the solution.

That IS the high ground.


No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.


The tool happens to be able to kill lots of people. A shovel is a tool. A bulldozer is a piece of equipment that requires training and regular recertification to operate.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:18 am    Post subject:

Btw, the most likely predictor of being killed by a gun is living in a home where thereís a gun. Mass shootings give gun advocates a distraction from that simple fact. People tend to die from guns held by themselves or someone they know.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. Thatís maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because thatís been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.


Eh. You're just talking around the issue. School shootings are a problem. What is your realistic solution? Don't tell me about the Maginot line or whatever. Tell me what you propose to do that has a realistic chance of happening.

At some point, state legislatures are going to start doing something. That's the nature of politicians. They want to tell their constituents that they are addressing the issues. They are not going to ban firearms, because the public likes guns and because the Second Amendment makes it a non-starter. They are not going to ban assault weapons, and that would not have made a difference in Santa Fe anyway. All of the other stuff in the gun control agenda -- background checks, etc. -- is not applicable.

The one feasible response is arming teachers. They won't arm every teacher, and they will have all sorts of training requirements and the like. But the legislatures will be able to tell the public that they have done something. Who knows? It might work. I don't really support it, but I realize that the alternative -- doing nothing -- is unappealing.

If you don't have a feasible alternative, and you just want to criticize the response (or talk about banning firearms or whatnot), that's fine. But you aren't occupying the higher ground this time.


No, the person talking around the problem is yourself. School shootings are not the problem. There are shootings at various venues, so clearly schools aren't the problem, the shooting is. It doesn't take much thought to realize the common denominator in shootings is the guns. The logical extension of that is to address the actual issue . . . the guns themselves.

This whole, "you can't do anything about the guns so let's legislate everything else" is BS. It victimizes the populace in order to pacify a segment of citizens who are too enamored of their weapons, the sole purpose of which is to kill.

To propose that turning public venues into "shooting proof" fortresses is such an ass backward approach to the problem that it isn't even funny.

Address the actual problems, not the occasional locations. That is the blatantly obvious approach - at least to those truly interested in solving the problem rather than dancing around trying to appease those who refuse to be a part of the solution.

That IS the high ground.


No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.


The tool happens to be able to kill lots of people. A shovel is a tool. A bulldozer is a piece of equipment that requires training and regular recertification to operate.


Fine, make gun education a requirement to own a gun ( most States do). Require recertification. Legal gun owners wouldnít fight that but it would have no effect on the criminals who buy guns on the street. Especially those who buy them from the government.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


Pretty obvious the issue are both
Mental Health would always be an issue, guns or no guns

but lack of gun control, both purchasing and operating in US, is also a problem. The fact that US own CDC is legally barred by US government (on behalf of gun manufacturers) to study effect of gun violence/death as a disease (just as they do vehicular) is in itself a crazy problem
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Interestingly, the Venn diagram between staunch gun advocates and people who bridle at ďhaving to payĒ to take care of other people like the mentally ill is mostly just one circle.


Gun advocates and non-gun advocates pay, the disconnect is what the legislature does with that money. If they wanted tougher gun laws we would have them.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


They both are. Iím still waiting for you or any other gun rights advocate to come up with what to do about ďpeopleĒ, especially when you also tend to resist most of the things that relate to helping ďpeopleĒ when those issues are at hand. Itís like whack a mole. Because it isnít really a cohesive position with the other ones, but thatís the idea.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


I agree and don't. Mental health has been neglected and got much worse under the current administration which has flat out ignored it. At the same time gun legislation is a joke. Put the two together and you have what we are dealing with right now.

It's not an either or situation. It's both combined to make things worse.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:36 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. Thatís maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because thatís been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.


Eh. You're just talking around the issue. School shootings are a problem. What is your realistic solution? Don't tell me about the Maginot line or whatever. Tell me what you propose to do that has a realistic chance of happening.

At some point, state legislatures are going to start doing something. That's the nature of politicians. They want to tell their constituents that they are addressing the issues. They are not going to ban firearms, because the public likes guns and because the Second Amendment makes it a non-starter. They are not going to ban assault weapons, and that would not have made a difference in Santa Fe anyway. All of the other stuff in the gun control agenda -- background checks, etc. -- is not applicable.

The one feasible response is arming teachers. They won't arm every teacher, and they will have all sorts of training requirements and the like. But the legislatures will be able to tell the public that they have done something. Who knows? It might work. I don't really support it, but I realize that the alternative -- doing nothing -- is unappealing.

If you don't have a feasible alternative, and you just want to criticize the response (or talk about banning firearms or whatnot), that's fine. But you aren't occupying the higher ground this time.


No, the person talking around the problem is yourself. School shootings are not the problem. There are shootings at various venues, so clearly schools aren't the problem, the shooting is. It doesn't take much thought to realize the common denominator in shootings is the guns. The logical extension of that is to address the actual issue . . . the guns themselves.

This whole, "you can't do anything about the guns so let's legislate everything else" is BS. It victimizes the populace in order to pacify a segment of citizens who are too enamored of their weapons, the sole purpose of which is to kill.

To propose that turning public venues into "shooting proof" fortresses is such an ass backward approach to the problem that it isn't even funny.

Address the actual problems, not the occasional locations. That is the blatantly obvious approach - at least to those truly interested in solving the problem rather than dancing around trying to appease those who refuse to be a part of the solution.

That IS the high ground.


No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.


The tool happens to be able to kill lots of people. A shovel is a tool. A bulldozer is a piece of equipment that requires training and regular recertification to operate.


Fine, make gun education a requirement to own a gun ( most States do). Require recertification. Legal gun owners wouldnít fight that but it would have no effect on the criminals who buy guns on the street. Especially those who buy them from the government.


Can you tell me how many mass shootings in the US that were committed using unregistered guns?
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:


WHY? Differences of opinion bring solutions. You've offered solutions continue to voice them and authenticate.


Did you read the second paragraph of Hector's post? This discussion has gone too far off the rails.

Quote:
Quote:

And by the way the school had armed security and a plan for a shooting situation.


AH You know you my peep but on this you have me confused. Do you REALLY advocate arming teachers?
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Btw, legal gun owners would and do fight certification, which they view as a form of ďa listĒ, which for irrational political reasons is far more important than actual safety.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:47 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Btw, the most likely predictor of being killed by a gun is living in a home where thereís a gun. Mass shootings give gun advocates a distraction from that simple fact. People tend to die from guns held by themselves or someone they know.


That's also a predictor for suicide, especially for males. I had to switch from Direct to (bleep) Spectrum and I was diddling thru the on demand stuff and I found an HBO doc from 1995 called "5 Handguns, 5 American Kids". I was sure I watched that back then, it felt very deja vooey. It was 5 profiles of kids being murdered (or murderING someone), killed in suicide, killed by accident due to an unknown round in the chamber, and one was a dummy who got scared at a stop and he killed a cop. The kid who committed suicide didn't give any signals or tell anyone and they found him sitting up in his bed, but they realized he was dead when they took a closer look. He took dad's gun. Imagine that kind of guilt. The guy said as much, he rued ever having it, for home defense or anything else.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


They both are. Iím still waiting for you or any other gun rights advocate to come up with what to do about ďpeopleĒ, especially when you also tend to resist most of the things that relate to helping ďpeopleĒ when those issues are at hand. Itís like whack a mole. Because it isnít really a cohesive position with the other ones, but thatís the idea.


I disagree, I can speak for myself but I believe many other gun owners agree that reform is necessary. If one needs to go through more scrutiny to hunt then I think that they do so. The issue isnít gun owners, it is politics (and I consider the NRA a political body). I received an application from the NRA in the mail this week but put it in the recycle bin. I support gun ownership but reject blind denial of an approach to improve the situation. The problem begins and ends with our elected officials, they have the power to do something but continue to ignore it. Letís lay blame where it belongs.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

If you were many more times likely to die en route than to reach your destination, would you drive a car? Yet thatís the truth about a gun at home (you are many more times more likely to be killed with it than to use it to defend your life from attack) yet we keep hearing about the home invader (often exaggerated) stopped, and that offsets the many more deaths in the minds of many.

Guns are and always have been about the perception of power, not the rational tool of need.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Hector the Pup wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
The problem of violence is not solved by fortifying the last place attacked. Thatís maginot line thinking, fighting the last war. Right now schools are a thing because thatís been in the public mindset, but you can just as easily wreak havoc in a culdesac.


Eh. You're just talking around the issue. School shootings are a problem. What is your realistic solution? Don't tell me about the Maginot line or whatever. Tell me what you propose to do that has a realistic chance of happening.

At some point, state legislatures are going to start doing something. That's the nature of politicians. They want to tell their constituents that they are addressing the issues. They are not going to ban firearms, because the public likes guns and because the Second Amendment makes it a non-starter. They are not going to ban assault weapons, and that would not have made a difference in Santa Fe anyway. All of the other stuff in the gun control agenda -- background checks, etc. -- is not applicable.

The one feasible response is arming teachers. They won't arm every teacher, and they will have all sorts of training requirements and the like. But the legislatures will be able to tell the public that they have done something. Who knows? It might work. I don't really support it, but I realize that the alternative -- doing nothing -- is unappealing.

If you don't have a feasible alternative, and you just want to criticize the response (or talk about banning firearms or whatnot), that's fine. But you aren't occupying the higher ground this time.


No, the person talking around the problem is yourself. School shootings are not the problem. There are shootings at various venues, so clearly schools aren't the problem, the shooting is. It doesn't take much thought to realize the common denominator in shootings is the guns. The logical extension of that is to address the actual issue . . . the guns themselves.

This whole, "you can't do anything about the guns so let's legislate everything else" is BS. It victimizes the populace in order to pacify a segment of citizens who are too enamored of their weapons, the sole purpose of which is to kill.

To propose that turning public venues into "shooting proof" fortresses is such an ass backward approach to the problem that it isn't even funny.

Address the actual problems, not the occasional locations. That is the blatantly obvious approach - at least to those truly interested in solving the problem rather than dancing around trying to appease those who refuse to be a part of the solution.

That IS the high ground.


No, the common denominator is disturbed individuals, the guns are just a tool. Magically eliminate all guns and the same individuals find another way to make their message known. That is like treating a fever from an infection and allowing the infection to fester.


The tool happens to be able to kill lots of people. A shovel is a tool. A bulldozer is a piece of equipment that requires training and regular recertification to operate.


Fine, make gun education a requirement to own a gun ( most States do). Require recertification. Legal gun owners wouldnít fight that but it would have no effect on the criminals who buy guns on the street. Especially those who buy them from the government.


Can you tell me how many mass shootings in the US that were committed using unregistered guns?


I have no idea, I donít know when they began registration. Definitely not 40 years ago when I last purchased a gun. It is surprising that California is only now requiring ID to purchase ammo, you had to have a gun card to do so in Illinois 40 years ago.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
If you were many more times likely to die en route than to reach your destination, would you drive a car? Yet thatís the truth about a gun at home (you are many more times more likely to be killed with it than to use it to defend your life from attack) yet we keep hearing about the home invader (often exaggerated) stopped, and that offsets the many more deaths in the minds of many.

Guns are and always have been about the perception of power, not the rational tool of need.


Or for some of us a method to put food on the table.
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Meanwhile, Moms Demand Action has been working in the states to get local gun reform. Here is a twitter thread by Shannon Watts, founder of Mom's Demand Action, detailing all they have been able to accomplish since Sandy Hook:

Quote:
Shannon Watts Verified account @shannonrwatts

Don't let anyone tell you nothing has happened in America to stop gun violence. Don't give into cynicism or hopelessness - that's what the @NRA wants. The defeat of the gun lobby, and the gun homicides, suicides and injuries that go along with it, must be fueled by determination.

This is a thread on what's been accomplished since Sandy Hook to stop gun violence, including the efforts of @MomsDemand, which I started as a Facebook page on 12/15/12. Since then, we've become a grassroots army of women (and men) in every state working to change gun culture.


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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


They both are. Iím still waiting for you or any other gun rights advocate to come up with what to do about ďpeopleĒ, especially when you also tend to resist most of the things that relate to helping ďpeopleĒ when those issues are at hand. Itís like whack a mole. Because it isnít really a cohesive position with the other ones, but thatís the idea.


I disagree, I can speak for myself but I believe many other gun owners agree that reform is necessary. If one needs to go through more scrutiny to hunt then I think that they do so. The issue isnít gun owners, it is politics (and I consider the NRA a political body). I received an application from the NRA in the mail this week but put it in the recycle bin. I support gun ownership but reject blind denial of an approach to improve the situation. The problem begins and ends with our elected officials, they have the power to do something but continue to ignore it. Letís lay blame where it belongs.


Blaming elected officials is just another way to deflect blame from where it belongs. Why do they support guns? The nra is part, but the nra draws its power and wealth from gun owners too. And no, when it is actually rubber meets the road time, gun owners do not tend to support more regulation. Quite the opposite.
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Hector the Pup
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Does the US have the only disturbed individuals?


Does it matter? We have mental issues that are being ignored, instead we can spend billions on stations for high speed rail that will never exist. Our legislators donít care about the general population, they only care about who lines their pocketbooks. I have never lived in any other country so I canít make assumptions about how they treat their general population. The fact is that there are many more law abiding gun owners than criminals who commit crimes with guns. The guns arenít the issue, the people are.


They both are. Iím still waiting for you or any other gun rights advocate to come up with what to do about ďpeopleĒ, especially when you also tend to resist most of the things that relate to helping ďpeopleĒ when those issues are at hand. Itís like whack a mole. Because it isnít really a cohesive position with the other ones, but thatís the idea.


I disagree, I can speak for myself but I believe many other gun owners agree that reform is necessary. If one needs to go through more scrutiny to hunt then I think that they do so. The issue isnít gun owners, it is politics (and I consider the NRA a political body). I received an application from the NRA in the mail this week but put it in the recycle bin. I support gun ownership but reject blind denial of an approach to improve the situation. The problem begins and ends with our elected officials, they have the power to do something but continue to ignore it. Letís lay blame where it belongs.


I have said it many times before. Responsible gun owners are fine with going through training and regular recertification. The problem is that that certification doesn't apply to the household. If the accountability of having a gun In your name extends to everything that happens with that gun then things will change. Suddenly I'm a good guy with a gun but.my son took it and shot up a school but it's not my fault doesn't play. Sorry buddy but you're going down because you can't control what you own. You provided a weapon to a murderer and you are an accessory.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
If you were many more times likely to die en route than to reach your destination, would you drive a car? Yet thatís the truth about a gun at home (you are many more times more likely to be killed with it than to use it to defend your life from attack) yet we keep hearing about the home invader (often exaggerated) stopped, and that offsets the many more deaths in the minds of many.

Guns are and always have been about the perception of power, not the rational tool of need.


Or for some of us a method to put food on the table.


Please. Hunting for subsistence as a necessity is long gone. And even there, as in Canada, hunting and the keeping and carry it guns for non hunting purposes are quite separate issues that arenít mutually exclusive. But itís another great example of the dishonest whack a mole.
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