Wow is the West wide open?
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32
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject:

Injuries start to happen when fatigue sets in. The Warriors are trying to get to the finals for the 4th straight year. That's not easy to do.
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:14 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:


I'm not saying it's all the league, but they should be above reproach as a business. At the end of the day though, the team itself controls their rest by winning. The Laker squad that lost only ONE playoff game looked fresh wire to wire and it felt like it was other factors that led to them being the next 4 or 5 peat (Horry in and out, Malone injury, Shaq contract decision most importantly) and I'm not sure if that team really burnt itself out. You could say the same for Jordan's retirement as well. I'd like to hear some opinions on if this could or even should be "fixed".



There's lots of reasons that potential dynasties get stopped short --

1. injuries
2. player conflicts in terms of how the money/attention, etc. gets divided up
3. losing a little of their edge because of success
4. player mobility makes it more difficult to hold onto guys because they can leave for greener pastures easily
5. simply the fact that there are always other good teams, so no matter how much talent you collect you can't rubber-stamp your way to a ring


We were dominant in the middle-year in our threepeat, but we had a 7-game series in the playoffs the years before and after, so it's not like we were cutting through the league like a knife through butter.


Draymond nut punch changed history..
If OKC hadn't have choked vs the Warriors that would have been the end of them forever.
Injuries can happen at any time.

I know the series isn't over yet, and I don't expect the Warriors to fold, but I love how the media, fans, and those here on LG want to hand the Warriors the title for the next five years. And I personally think it's comical when people say the Lakers should take a slower rebuild because in 5 years the Warriors will be in decline and our guys will be entering their primes. Slow rebuild is fine, but the Warriors shouldn't be the reason. 5 years? Hilarious. In two years they'll be another gold standard that the league will be running to replicate. Then LG will be rushing to compare our players to the 5 ISO players, or the All Big Men line up. Or the All Defense No Offense Line Up.
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LakerSD
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:17 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Injuries start to happen when fatigue sets in. The Warriors are trying to get to the finals for the 4th straight year. That's not easy to do.


Indeed. They just didn’t look like the same team all season.

This is Houston’s shot because GSW will be back strong next season.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject:

@basketballtalk

Quote:
Report: Chris Paul’s hamstring injury ‘not good’

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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject:

LakerSD wrote:
32 wrote:
Injuries start to happen when fatigue sets in. The Warriors are trying to get to the finals for the 4th straight year. That's not easy to do.


Indeed. They just didn’t look like the same team all season.

This is Houston’s shot because GSW will be back strong next season.


Well it's being reported CP3's hamstring strain is not good. He's likely out for the rest of the playoffs. Warriors caught a break.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.

Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit.


Golden State is banged up -- Iggy is out, Thompson has a knee issue and it wasn't sure he'd even play in game 5, Curry isn't going to be healthy for the rest of the playoffs.


They will only get more banged up next year.

Curry and Iggy always have lingering health issues and those are going to be more frequent at their age.

There depth is only going to get worse as they can’t keep Looney and it will be tough to keep McCaw.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:42 am    Post subject:

What's playoffs without a CP3 injury. Congrats GS.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

This is why we need to sign two elite FAs... no stupid supermaxes... just pick the two best we can get and roll with them and the core.

The Kawhi/PG/LBJ plan is too risky. I won't deny they might be able to win... but we lose half the core... our time window becomes much shorter... and there is no depth.

Can't win with a six man rotation, no matter how good the team is.

At least not for an extended period... injuries will always catch up at some point.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
activeverb wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.

Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit.


Golden State is banged up -- Iggy is out, Thompson has a knee issue and it wasn't sure he'd even play in game 5, Curry isn't going to be healthy for the rest of the playoffs.


They will only get more banged up next year.

Curry and Iggy always have lingering health issues and those are going to be more frequent at their age.

There depth is only going to get worse as they can’t keep Looney and it will be tough to keep McCaw.


Curry is healthy when he is dropping 35. He's injured when they are losing, and getting close to being eliminated. It's no secret why Houston is winning. They are switching everything, and forcing guys like Klay Thompson to dribble to get a shot. Everyone in the league knows that Curry and Thompson aren't ISO players.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
activeverb wrote:
AirKobe8 wrote:
GSW does look mortal, and that could really benefit us this summer. Suddenly, the West looks winnable.

Anyway, don't you think all 4 teams still playing look really fatigued? I think it's playing more into series' results than people are giving credit.


Golden State is banged up -- Iggy is out, Thompson has a knee issue and it wasn't sure he'd even play in game 5, Curry isn't going to be healthy for the rest of the playoffs.


They will only get more banged up next year.

Curry and Iggy always have lingering health issues and those are going to be more frequent at their age.

There depth is only going to get worse as they can’t keep Looney and it will be tough to keep McCaw.


They will also be more expensive with KD getting the max.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:21 am    Post subject:

Wildchild027 wrote:

Curry is healthy when he is dropping 35. He's injured when they are losing, and getting close to being eliminated.


Just because a star is able to play well in a game doesn't mean he's healthy.

He came back in the middle of the playoffs after being out two months with a knee injury -- he's not going to be healthy for the rest of the year, but he can still have games where he performs at a high level.

This isn't an excuse. It's simply what it is. If it weren't the playoffs, he wouldn't be playing. Such is life.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject:

32 wrote:
Injuries start to happen when fatigue sets in. The Warriors are trying to get to the finals for the 4th straight year. That's not easy to do.


People forget that the Bulls in the 90's never went to four straight finals. Few teams have. It also highlights the incredible streak of seven by LeBron, although he's done it with two teams, so, like jordan, he got a fresh set of teammates in the middle. But it's still a testament to his will and strength
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:

Draymond nut punch changed history..
If OKC hadn't have choked vs the Warriors that would have been the end of them forever.
Injuries can happen at any time.



Yup, I think every player in the league has 2 or 3 "what if" rings
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:27 am    Post subject:

Injury hit list

Curry
Thompson
Iggy
Cp3
Hayward
Irving

Did i miss anyone?
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Wow is the West wide open?

splashmtn wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Houston showing how to beat the Warriors?
2 Max FA and Lakers can matchup with Rockets.
Even more reason for LBJ to come.

If LBJ and PG13 come and JR is kept by trading 2 #1 to dump Deng, this is a nice matchup:
PG13 vs. James Harden
Ball vs. Chris Paul
JR vs. Clint Capela.
BI vs. Trevor Ariza.
LBJ vs. P.J. Tucker

subs:
Hart, Kuzma, $4M FA vs. Gordon, Green, Nene

houston hasnt shown a thing.

how to beat the warriors? ask the cavs how they did it?

notice anything similar?

I do..

it's called injuries.

thats the only way any of these currently setup teams can beat the warriors. they have to pray for an injury or two.

Cavs only won that series where they were about to lose quickly due to Draymond getting suspended, then Iggy playing too many minutes ended up having back spasms the next game and was hobbled the entire game(there goes yet another lock down defender and passer), in addition bogut got hurt. paint defender and extra passer(he used to run the offense from the post.. ball movement was hampered when these two guys were down/hobbled.)

you see the same pattern now. iggy is down, ball movement is suspect, turnover city(bone head turnovers, not forced TO's). a lack of defense on certain guys all because iggy is injured. and klay is now playing half hurt even though he can score still. he can't defend the same.

Thats the recipe. wait for an injury or two then pounce. nothing more...nothing less.

the west is not wise open when it comes to the top spot. not until some other team creates a team full of equal or better talent with an equal or better approach offensively/defensively. that has not happened yet. all you can do is hope they get hurt or age out.


Injuries are part of the game, and given Warriors' history, you can almost count on at least 1 major star injured in the playoffs. The most likely will be Curry, and with their age, it is more likely than not that they will have 2 injured key players during playoffs.
What Houston showed is that this type of Warriors team can be vulnerable with a good switching defense.

If LBJ and PG13 join the Lakers, there are 3.5 top contenders. That would be warriors, houston, lakers and to some level Pelicans.

Lets think about how such a Laker team would do against such a Warriors team:
Ball vs. hobbled Curry
PG13 vs. Thompson
BI vs. KD
LBJ vs. Iggy
JR vs. Green

That would be a pretty even matchup.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:01 am    Post subject:

I've been thinking for a while that Curry (30 yo) is nearing the end of his prime. Too many ankle/durability issues to keep playing with that dazzling speed/dribbling for much longer. He'll be an elite shooter till the day he retires, though, so Warriors will have to work around that.

Klay OTH seems like a guy who'll remain relevant into his 30s, as will be KD of course. So if they are able to keep all 3, they should be just fine, but will have to get younger pieces each year. They got a great complimentary building block with Jordan Bell, but Iggy isn't getting any young, nor are most of their role players (West/Zaza, etc) which is also one of the reasons their rotations have been so short lately.

So I think GSW's success moving forward really depends on them getting another good young PG to backup Curry and getting younger on the bench. Hard to do that signing only vet. min guys, but there are worse situations to be in. They might pull it off.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Houston offensively is not even playing that great either.

Didn’t think the Warriors would regress this soon.


Warriors haven't regressed skill wise. They just aren't playing with the same level of urgency this season. Rockets want it more and it shows. Also the Steph injury happening late in the season got KD back to his old OKC habit of going ISO too much.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

I think the loss of iguodola is going extremely overlooked. He's more important to that team then people realize. The guy was finals MVP a few years ago.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject:

HAWAIIGUY27 wrote:
trablos wrote:
We're still gonna need some shooters.


I brought this up in another thread. We're going to need shooters if we bring LeBron in.

Some candidates off the top of my head for those 4 vet. min. slots:
Channing Frye
Travis Wear (2-way?)
Marco Belinelli
Joe Harris
Gerald Green
Joe Johnson
Luke Babbitt
Mo Speights
Jose Calderon


Ian Clark?
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Wow is the West wide open?

cal1piggy wrote:
Houston showing how to beat the Warriors?
2 Max FA and Lakers can matchup with Rockets.
Even more reason for LBJ to come.

If LBJ and PG13 come and JR is kept by trading 2 #1 to dump Deng, this is a nice matchup:
PG13 vs. James Harden
Ball vs. Chris Paul
JR vs. Clint Capela.
BI vs. Trevor Ariza.
LBJ vs. P.J. Tucker

subs:
Hart, Kuzma, $4M FA vs. Gordon, Green, Nene


I like this...!
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

Makave7iThaDon wrote:
I think the loss of iguodola is going extremely overlooked. He's more important to that team then people realize. The guy was finals MVP a few years ago.


I read that he leads the league in assist to turnover ratio too. He'd help with their recent ball control issues and defense.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:54 am    Post subject:

The Rockets are underrated if you think the West is wide open. The Rockets are probably one of the best ~15 regular season teams ever
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

I liked what I saw when we played the Warriors this year. Being long enough to switch everything made us competitive. The Celtics are long enough to do that effectively and I believe that's what the Lakers have to build on with more quality shooters. They're not as far away as people think. Our stronger youngsters with more experience will be a good team, ready to compete with with everyone when the f/a(s?) come.
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
I've been thinking for a while that Curry (30 yo) is nearing the end of his prime. Too many ankle/durability issues to keep playing with that dazzling speed/dribbling for much longer. He'll be an elite shooter till the day he retires, though, so Warriors will have to work around that.

Klay OTH seems like a guy who'll remain relevant into his 30s, as will be KD of course. So if they are able to keep all 3, they should be just fine, but will have to get younger pieces each year. They got a great complimentary building block with Jordan Bell, but Iggy isn't getting any young, nor are most of their role players (West/Zaza, etc) which is also one of the reasons their rotations have been so short lately.

So I think GSW's success moving forward really depends on them getting another good young PG to backup Curry and getting younger on the bench. Hard to do that signing only vet. min guys, but there are worse situations to be in. They might pull it off.


I feel the same way about Curry. 2 out of 3 playoffs, he is limited due to injury.

Now Ball may be injury prone also, but we dont know yet.
However I like Lakers chances if Ball and Curry are both out if we get LBJ and PG13.
Imagine:
BI vs. KD
PG13 vs. Thompson
LBJ vs. Livingston
Kuzma vs. Iggie
JR vs. Green
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
Makave7iThaDon wrote:
I think the loss of iguodola is going extremely overlooked. He's more important to that team then people realize. The guy was finals MVP a few years ago.


I read that he leads the league in assist to turnover ratio too. He'd help with their recent ball control issues and defense.


He's not quite that good, but he's good. His ratio is 3.13-1, which puts him just a bit outside the top 10.
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