Is it me or has there been an influx of people begging on the middle dividers/islands on the streets?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:01 am    Post subject:

Hammett wrote:
I was driving out of a Target a few weeks ago. They have those big parking lots with about 4 exits out to the main street. All four of them had people stationed there with signs.

There's one well-dressed gentleman that always stands at the same spot on Devonshire and Sepulveda. And a woman in a motorized wheelchair that camps right in front of the Bank of America so she knows you have money!

I saw one guy that had a pigeon in his hand and he was kissing and petting it.

Homeless really exploded in the past 5-10 years. It hit all the west coast cities real bad, from San Diego to Seattle. I've seen firsthand the mass of tents in San Diego. What a nightmare. The downfall of America.



The people begging in front of banks are silly. Most banks only allow you to withdraw from ATMs in denominations of $20. No one is going to give you a $20.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:02 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Saw a guest on MSNBC recently claim that referring to them as "homeless" was derogatory......and that they should be referred to as "urban campers".


If they're "urban campers" then they can go "live off the land" as opposed to begging. There's no begging when you go camping.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
The inhumanity in this thread is appalling, and is a microcosm of the society that creates so much suffering, and then turns its back on it.



Personally, my issue with giving isn't whether to give. It's knowing with fair certainty I'm helping someone get to a better position. My family was helped tremendously in order for my siblings and I to be in our current position.

I created this thread due to the influx of people begging on dividers. And most of the time, I can't tell if they're really homeless or taking advantage of motorists waiting for a left turn. I know income inequality is rising, which could be a factor as to why there are so many people specifically begging on dividers.

And not to bring race into this, but I'd like to point out another personal observation. As much hate as Mexicans get for "stealing" our jobs, they are some of the most hard working people. I've lived in So. Cal. for decades and rarely do I see Mexicans begging for a handout. I see them selling whatever they can to make money. Often it'll be 90 degrees out and someone is selling flowers or some mango in a bag while sweating it like crazy. I give major props for the perseverance and in a better society, we would allow hard working individuals to escape poverty at a much faster rate.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


Reminds me of one person who lived at the bus bench across the street for many years, the people in the neighborhood enjoyed his quick wit and the pearls of wisdom from his perspective. We would often try to help out with food, water, and clothing, which he graciously accepted. When asked if he would consider a shelter, he'd flatly refused except on severe weather days. He said, "there's no point in going to a shelter full-time, it defeats the purpose of me being out here living freely and being cared by the community."
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:29 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Homeless people in downtown LA are given ways to get off the street. Union Rescue Mission gives food, shelter and pays for people to go to LACC and other schools. I personally know a person who went to Trade Tech to become a mechanic. He's currently working for a Dodge dealership in West LA. Other missions downtown offer similar programs. There are programs that train and place people willing to put in the work.

There are reason such as mental illness, drug addition, criminal records, etc that contribute to the homeless. You also have those that have given up.

I don't know for sure but I've been told there are doctors, lawyers and such living on the streets of LA. Miguel Núñez lived on the street in downtown LA.

IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


And that's why opinions and facts are not the same thing...
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
jodeke wrote:
IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


Reminds me of one person who lived at the bus bench across the street for many years, the people in the neighborhood enjoyed his quick wit and the pearls of wisdom from his perspective. We would often try to help out with food, water, and clothing, which he graciously accepted. When asked if he would consider a shelter, he'd flatly refused except on severe weather days. He said, "there's no point in going to a shelter full-time, it defeats the purpose of me being out here living freely and being cared by the community."


This is the modern version of the welfare queen driving the Cadillac. I suspect if you dig even a centimeter under the surface, you will find a ton of issues why this guy is homeless. A lot of the guys who will say these things are rationalizing to recapture a piece of the dignity that has been stripped from them.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Homeless people in downtown LA are given ways to get off the street. Union Rescue Mission gives food, shelter and pays for people to go to LACC and other schools. I personally know a person who went to Trade Tech to become a mechanic. He's currently working for a Dodge dealership in West LA. Other missions downtown offer similar programs. There are programs that train and place people willing to put in the work.

There are reason such as mental illness, drug addition, criminal records, etc that contribute to the homeless. You also have those that have given up.

I don't know for sure but I've been told there are doctors, lawyers and such living on the streets of LA. Miguel Núñez lived on the street in downtown LA.

IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


And that's why opinions and facts are not the same thing...


To what factors do you allude? Also please factor many not all or most.
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Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Homeless people in downtown LA are given ways to get off the street. Union Rescue Mission gives food, shelter and pays for people to go to LACC and other schools. I personally know a person who went to Trade Tech to become a mechanic. He's currently working for a Dodge dealership in West LA. Other missions downtown offer similar programs. There are programs that train and place people willing to put in the work.

There are reason such as mental illness, drug addition, criminal records, etc that contribute to the homeless. You also have those that have given up.

I don't know for sure but I've been told there are doctors, lawyers and such living on the streets of LA. Miguel Núñez lived on the street in downtown LA.

IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


And that's why opinions and facts are not the same thing...


To what factors do you elude? Also please factor many? not all or most.


I don't think that word means what you think it does. And my point is that you're using what may be a technical truth (many being a well known weasel word that can be used to imply a majority) to promulgate a larger idea that isn't.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:19 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Homeless people in downtown LA are given ways to get off the street. Union Rescue Mission gives food, shelter and pays for people to go to LACC and other schools. I personally know a person who went to Trade Tech to become a mechanic. He's currently working for a Dodge dealership in West LA. Other missions downtown offer similar programs. There are programs that train and place people willing to put in the work.

There are reason such as mental illness, drug addition, criminal records, etc that contribute to the homeless. You also have those that have given up.

I don't know for sure but I've been told there are doctors, lawyers and such living on the streets of LA. Miguel Núñez lived on the street in downtown LA.

IMO many homeless people are homeless by choice.


And that's why opinions and facts are not the same thing...


To what factors do you elude? Also please factor many? not all or most.


I don't think that word means what you think it does. And my point is that you're using what may be a technical truth (many being a well known weasel word that can be used to imply a majority) to promulgate a larger idea that isn't.


I made the correction you posted before it posted. You call it weasel, I say it because it's something I believe.

I've walked the downtown area, met a lot of homeless people. Some don't want responsibility that comes with living in a apartment. They're satisfied living on the street, eating at missions. Downtown mission serve three meals a day and shelter when the weather is harsh.

I use many because I've met many who think that way. If you want to say it's a weasel word that can be used to imply a majority that's your prerogative not my intent.
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Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:31 am    Post subject:

Jodeke, my larger point in this whole thing is that there's an interest in delegitimizing the homeless that makes people consciously or unconsciously feel better about the fact that we don't do much to solve the problem. Most of us are a few pay checks and a mental illness away from that status ourselves, and part of that dries the callousness toward them, ironically.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Jodeke, my larger point in this whole thing is that there's an interest in delegitimizing the homeless that makes people consciously or unconsciously feel better about the fact that we don't do much to solve the problem. Most of us are a few pay checks and a mental illness away from that status ourselves, and part of that dries the callousness toward them, ironically.

I understand your point and agree with it, in part.

I'm not de-legitimizing the homeless, I know for a fact there are reasons for being homeless, some which I posted.

You're reading more into many than the reason I use the word. You're taking on the homeless problem as a whole, I'm talking about some I've met. That number is large, many.

You say most of us are a paycheck or a mental illness away from being homeless. I say most is over stated. Do you really mean most?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Jodeke, my larger point in this whole thing is that there's an interest in delegitimizing the homeless that makes people consciously or unconsciously feel better about the fact that we don't do much to solve the problem. Most of us are a few pay checks and a mental illness away from that status ourselves, and part of that dries the callousness toward them, ironically.

I understand your point and agree with it, in part.

I'm not de-legitimizing the homeless, I know for a fact there are reasons for being homeless, some which I posted.

You're reading more into many than the reason I use the word. You're taking on the homeless problem as a whole, I'm talking about some I've met. That number is large, many.

You say most of us are a paycheck or a mental illness away from being homeless. I say most is over stated. Do you really mean most?


Yes I mean most. Many studies indicate that most American workers are only a paycheck or three from being homeless, and many studies have indicated that the vast majority of the chronically homeless suffer mental illness to a significant degree. Mental illness is the most common denominator among the homeless (and among hardcore addicts, which are often members of both populations), and homelessness is a very prevalent feature of being significantly mentally ill.

FWIW, I know you don't mean to delegitimize, but pointing out that many homeless choose or want to be homeless (which is almost certainly untrue of most of your personally observed examples), serves to do exactly that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

There are always people who scam off of the misery and the generosity of others, but even those folks in this case are usually pretty (bleep) up. It's not a very pleasurable lifestyle. Which is why precisely zero of the people who complain about how they are getting over would do it themselves.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Jodeke, my larger point in this whole thing is that there's an interest in delegitimizing the homeless that makes people consciously or unconsciously feel better about the fact that we don't do much to solve the problem. Most of us are a few pay checks and a mental illness away from that status ourselves, and part of that dries the callousness toward them, ironically.

I understand your point and agree with it, in part.

I'm not de-legitimizing the homeless, I know for a fact there are reasons for being homeless, some which I posted.

You're reading more into many than the reason I use the word. You're taking on the homeless problem as a whole, I'm talking about some I've met. That number is large, many.

You say most of us are a paycheck or a mental illness away from being homeless. I say most is over stated. Do you really mean most?


Yes I mean most. Many studies indicate that most American workers are only a paycheck or three from being homeless, and many studies have indicated that the vast majority of the chronically homeless suffer mental illness to a significant degree. Mental illness is the most common denominator among the homeless (and among hardcore addicts, which are often members of both populations), and homelessness is a very prevalent feature of being significantly mentally ill.

FWIW, I know you don't mean to delegitimize, but pointing out that many homeless choose or want to be homeless (which is almost certainly untrue of most of your personally observed examples), serves to do exactly that.



Have you ever taken time to go to the core and talk to those affected. I have. I stand by many.

I met Miguel Núñez when he was homeless. He made it back. I still go downtown and a lot of the same people are still there. They've become accustom and adjusted to living a lifestyle. It's becomes a lifestyle they choose to live. They live it by choice.
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Last edited by jodeke on Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

Like jodeke... I'm speaking from my perspective and based off of the (almost daily) observations and interactions I experience.

CHOICE is a tricky word here. Obviously if you gave these people a choice between being homeless and winning the lottery, they wouldn't choose homelessness. But from what I have seen, if it comes to staying homeless and begging for money or abiding by rules of a shelter and making an effort to better their situation... they CHOOSE the easy route.

Again, I'm only speaking from minimal experience in my community. These are all the visible homeless we're talking about. Sleeping on sidewalks... pushing shopping carts... etc. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless people I/we don't even see or know of at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject:

PLATNUM wrote:
Like jodeke... I'm speaking from my perspective and based off of the (almost daily) observations and interactions I experience.

CHOICE is a tricky word here. Obviously if you gave these people a choice between being homeless and winning the lottery, they wouldn't choose homelessness. But from what I have seen, if it comes to staying homeless and begging for money or abiding by rules of a shelter and making an effort to better their situation... they CHOOSE the easy route.

Again, I'm only speaking from minimal experience in my community. These are all the visible homeless we're talking about. Sleeping on sidewalks... pushing shopping carts... etc. I'm sure there are plenty of homeless people I/we don't even see or know of at all.

We're in concert. Choice is subjective and I use it minimally. Choice because they don't want responsibility. Of course if given a choice to being homeless or having one I think most would choose to have one. I say many (I don't put a number on many) don't want the responsibility to maintain a room, apartment, home. It would mean they had to work a steady job.
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