What do you think the Lakers will do with Deng?
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What do you think the Lakers will do with Deng?
Trade him with picks and cash for cap space
35%
 35%  [ 28 ]
Trade him with Hart and a pick for cap space
6%
 6%  [ 5 ]
Trade him with Kuzma for cap space and an asset
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Trade him with Ingram for cap space and an asset
5%
 5%  [ 4 ]
Stretch him
19%
 19%  [ 15 ]
Keep him
28%
 28%  [ 22 ]
other: post what you think
3%
 3%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 78

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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I need examples. Do you think James would rather have Josh Hart or J.R. Smith? Lonzo Ball or George Hill? Ingram or Korver/Jeff Green?.


This is apples and oranges. None of those guys were on the Cleveland roster when James signed there. They were veterans they added over time, getting the best guys they could at any given time.

No one is saying that James would want the young players traded for the current Cavs team; but he might want them traded for veteran assets. If you're asking exactly what players James would press the Lakers to trade for, I don't know.

Iím just reading your words dude. You said James would rather have proven vets instead of youngsters. Iím saying be specific. James would rather have STAR proven vets instead of youngsters. Not just veterans for veterans sake.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Wasnít Kyrie Irving 21-22 when James came back to Cleveland and known as an inefficient scoring guard who couldnít defend?

Why didnít he want Irving traded?


Kyrie Irving was a multiple time All Star before James came back. He was literally the All Star game MVP the year before James returned. If you prefer to not believe what almost anyone that has played with or around him claims....that's ok with me.....maybe you will be right. I just would not put my money on James suddenly changing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject:

The Lakers and James would be interested in trading Ingram and Deng for a star like Damian Lillard, but the Lakers will not simply give away youngsters (in dumping Deng) just because James ďlikes proven vetsĒ.

That idea is a lazy narrative based entirely on the Wiggins/Love trade.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I need examples. Do you think James would rather have Josh Hart or J.R. Smith? Lonzo Ball or George Hill? Ingram or Korver/Jeff Green?.


This is apples and oranges. None of those guys were on the Cleveland roster when James signed there. They were veterans they added over time, getting the best guys they could at any given time.

No one is saying that James would want the young players traded for the current Cavs team; but he might want them traded for veteran assets. If you're asking exactly what players James would press the Lakers to trade for, I don't know.

Iím just reading your words dude. You said James would rather have proven vets instead of youngsters. Iím saying be specific. James would rather have STAR proven vets instead of youngsters. Not just veterans for veterans sake.


I'm not saying he would want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade.

However, I do think he would evaluate our young players solely on what they did last year, rather than with an expectation of how they would improve. Most fans, in contrast, value our young guys in no small part for their potential to get better.

James doesn't care about that potential, because he's in win-now mode, so he might not value the young guys as much as fans. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me to see him press the Lakers to trade the young guys for strong players who are certain to make an immediate contribution, rather than gamble that they will improve.

Anyway, we'll see what actually happens.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:10 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I need examples. Do you think James would rather have Josh Hart or J.R. Smith? Lonzo Ball or George Hill? Ingram or Korver/Jeff Green?.


This is apples and oranges. None of those guys were on the Cleveland roster when James signed there. They were veterans they added over time, getting the best guys they could at any given time.

No one is saying that James would want the young players traded for the current Cavs team; but he might want them traded for veteran assets. If you're asking exactly what players James would press the Lakers to trade for, I don't know.

Iím just reading your words dude. You said James would rather have proven vets instead of youngsters. Iím saying be specific. James would rather have STAR proven vets instead of youngsters. Not just veterans for veterans sake.


I'm not saying he would want to make a trade for the sake of making a trade.

However, I do think he would evaluate our young players solely on what they did last year, rather than with an expectation of how they would improve. Most fans, in contrast, value our young guys in no small part for their potential to get better.

James doesn't care about that potential, because he's in win-now mode, so he might not value the young guys as much as fans. Therefore, it wouldn't surprise me to see him press the Lakers to trade the young guys for strong players who are certain to make an immediate contribution, rather than gamble that they will improve.

Anyway, we'll see what actually happens.

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But we will see, indeed.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:05 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
The Lakers and James would be interested in trading Ingram and Deng for a star like Damian Lillard, but the Lakers will not simply give away youngsters (in dumping Deng) just because James ďlikes proven vetsĒ.

That idea is a lazy narrative based entirely on the Wiggins/Love trade.


says you....I have heard Windhorst and others reference his reluctance to play with young unproven players. There were dozens of stories wrote during his Miami days about how upset him and his people were for having to play Mario Chalmers....they literally started Carlos Arroyo to pacify James the first year...then let him go that summer forcing Chalmers into the lineup....and that was Chalmers 4th year in the NBA.

Just look at the 1st year in Miami....younger guys like Shavlik Randolph, Daequan Cook, and Michael Beasley (started 78 games season before Lebron) all gone....who was added to the roster?

Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 35
Jerry Stackhouse - 36
Mike Miller - 30
Juwan Howard - 37
Eddie House - 32
Erick Dampier - 35

What about their draft picks?
2010 - 1st Pick - Dexter Pittman - played 2 games that season...was off roster in 2 years.
2011 - 1st Pick - Bojan Bogdanovic - traded his rights draft night
2012 - 1st Pick - Arnett Moultrie - draft rights traded, never played for Heat
2013 - no picks, all traded away
2014 - Lebron exits....

There is simply no room for adding guys in the draft when you have to make room for guys like...

Ray Allen - 37
Chris Andersen - 34
Rashard Lewis - 33
Toney Douglas - 27
Roger Mason - 33

but yeah, probably just a "lazy narrative based entirely on the Wiggins/Love trade".
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject:

if we agree terms with Lebron and PG, trade with 2 1st rounders. if we cant get 2 maxes, keep
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
The Lakers and James would be interested in trading Ingram and Deng for a star like Damian Lillard, but the Lakers will not simply give away youngsters (in dumping Deng) just because James ďlikes proven vetsĒ.

That idea is a lazy narrative based entirely on the Wiggins/Love trade.


says you....I have heard Windhorst and others reference his reluctance to play with young unproven players. There were dozens of stories wrote during his Miami days about how upset him and his people were for having to play Mario Chalmers....they literally started Carlos Arroyo to pacify James the first year...then let him go that summer forcing Chalmers into the lineup....and that was Chalmers 4th year in the NBA.

Just look at the 1st year in Miami....younger guys like Shavlik Randolph, Daequan Cook, and Michael Beasley (started 78 games season before Lebron) all gone....who was added to the roster?

Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 35
Jerry Stackhouse - 36
Mike Miller - 30
Juwan Howard - 37
Eddie House - 32
Erick Dampier - 35

What about their draft picks?
2010 - 1st Pick - Dexter Pittman - played 2 games that season...was off roster in 2 years.
2011 - 1st Pick - Bojan Bogdanovic - traded his rights draft night
2012 - 1st Pick - Arnett Moultrie - draft rights traded, never played for Heat
2013 - no picks, all traded away
2014 - Lebron exits....

There is simply no room for adding guys in the draft when you have to make room for guys like...

Ray Allen - 37
Chris Andersen - 34
Rashard Lewis - 33
Toney Douglas - 27
Roger Mason - 33

but yeah, probably just a "lazy narrative based entirely on the Wiggins/Love trade".

So many holes in your argument sir.

First, Miamiís failures in the draft DO NOT prove that James doesnít like young players.

Second, Miami signing veteran free agents, usually for far under market value, DOES NOT prove that James doesnít like playing with young players.

Iím humble, open to be wrong, but you wasted your time here ó proven nothing and brought nothing that is even remotely thought provoking.

My original argument still stands: James, and hopefully the Laker front office, would not want to lose Kuzma and/or Hart (with Deng) in order to spare both James and George (each) from coming up three million dollars short on their max contracts.

Would James want Ingram or Ball for Lillard? Yes.
Would he want Ingram or Ball for Leonard? Of course.

But James would not want to lose quality guys like Kuzma or Hart (in a Deng trade) just to split hairs over three million dollars.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject:

GOODRICH25 wrote:
if we agree terms with Lebron and PG, trade with 2 1st rounders. if we cant get 2 maxes, keep

Simple as that really.

The issue in this thread is that many posters feel as though no team will want those two first rounders unless Hart or Kuzma is attached ... and that is a fair opinion (even though I disagree).

My solution, if teams are adamant about including Hart or Kuzma, which is easy for me to suggest because it isnít my money, is to stretch Deng and shave 3.5 mill apiece off of James and Georgeís max contract.

Some believe, however, that George and especially James would rather keep their three million and sacrifice Kuz or Hart ... because their young and James hates playing with young guys.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Some believe, however, that George and especially James would rather keep their three million and sacrifice Kuz or Hart ... because their young and James hates playing with young guys.


Some think that James will want the full max for ego reasons.

There's also been speculation that as a union vice president, James doesn't want to set a precedent that stars must take pay cuts to be surrounded by a strong team.

But who knows? He's made a lot of comments about these topics, and a lot of those comments are contradictory, so it's anyone's guess what is really important to him.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out, if it even plays out at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:26 pm    Post subject:

I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:33 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.

I agree.

In addition to the absolute haul of assets Atlanta would be bringing in, Dengíll be a great teacher/model for one of the forwards they draft (Bagley or Jackson) as well.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.

I agree.

In addition to the absolute haul of assets Atlanta would be bringing in, Dengíll be a great teacher/model for one of the forwards they draft (Bagley or Jackson) as well.


I echo your speaking into existence. *Travis Schlenk, take my energy つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:41 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.


Russell changes that trade rather drastically. That's the equivalent of tossing Ingram into your new concept.

Anyway, you never know what can happen in the trade market. There are some really bad GMs out there who will do really stupid stuff. I posted something in General about how Ainge just kept plucking extra draft picks from the Nets. This was because the Nets GM was under pressure to get the deal done.

However, (1) you can't count on that happening, (2) we have may have competing bidders wanting to clear cap space, and (3) the pressure is on Magic and Pelinka to make a deal, not on the Atlanta GM.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.


I feel the same.

I think we have a Deng Package Deal ready to unload on draft night. I feel like we are going to attach this year's 1st round pick (#25) along with Deng and other fillers to Atlanta. That might explain why we are not working out too many projected first round players.

Atlanta has 3 first round picks this year. If they acquire our first rounder, maybe they could turn around and package some of their other first round picks to move up to #1 overall or acquire a solid, established player.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:34 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.


actually, you add a little bit each month, right?

fwiw, even though I think there is a 0-5% chance that trade could happen....I truly would be happy if it did....and would love to be wrong. As a side note, beyond not thinking 2 late 1st Round Draft picks 1-3 years in the future do not hold nearly the value to interest someone in Deng....I am not sure why everyone always includes Zubac or Bryant as if they sweeten the pot....I mean both guys are basically G League players....there will be undrafted FA's this summer with similar potential to Zubac/Bryant...but again, I would happy to tell you how wrong I was if it happens.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
So many holes in your argument sir.


I could have saved you the time reading it if you were looking for irrefutable proof....it was never meant to be that....it was to serve as additional evidence to support a long held claim/belief around the league.

Cleveland was not much different than Miami....their young talent such as Tyler Zeller, Dion Waiters, and C.J. Miles were all moved or not retained for older players or future assets to create roster room to add older players. The only 1st Round Draft pick they have had since Lebron arrived was in 2015, when they selected Tyus Jones.....and immediately traded his rights to Minnesota. The only young pieces they had on the roster over the last several years like Kay Felder and Jordan McRae got about as much playing time as myself.

Again, this is all just a mountain of evidence to support the claims that have been attached to James for nearly a decade. Is there context and nuance to everything if you look hard enough....sure you can always undermine each item if you are trying to reach a preferred belief.....as in it will never reach the level "proof" beyond any doubt....but to claim it is narrative built only on the support of the Wiggins trade, as you claimed......is simply false.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:21 am    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
scoobs wrote:
Im the one that voted Deng and Ingram, i kind of feel that is what will go down, but I hope that Im wrong.


Of course you did - you will trade Ingram for anything.

Why didn't you include Ball and Deng as one of the options?
This poll in not about what you want the Lakers to do with Deng. Its about what you think the Lakers will do with Deng. There just are not that many teams with cap space that need a point guard, especially teams with cap space that could send an asset back. Thats why I didnt put a Ball option, because it is highly unlikely. There are more teams that need wing players and more teams would be interested in Ingram than in Ball, because he is a better player.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject:

You people are using Deng TWICE.

You can use it to get James, but not to get James and another star.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject:

^
I think people are missing the point.

Of course, Lebron will play with young players.

When he joined the Heat, the point guards were Mario Chalmers and Norris Cole.

When he re-joined the Cavs, two of the starters were Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters, who at that time had about the same experience and level of performance as Ingram and Randle do now.

The point is that Lebron didn't join the Heat and the Cavs because of the young players. They were simply good enough to round out the top talent in place.

So the question is will Lebron think George and the young guys are enough talent, or will he require some of the young guys to be dealt (trading their potential for veterans who are currently better) to create a stronger talent base.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
I did a lot of work speaking the Mozgov-Lopez Nets/Lakers trade into existence last year, even if I didn't have Russell going out. I've been steadfast here, and I will speak this one into existence too, even if this doesn't prove to be the exact trade...

Deng, $5.2MM cash, Zubac or Bryant, '19 1st, '21 1st, and 2 of the following 3 going to Atlanta: #47 overall pick this year, the CHI '19 2nd, a 2020 2nd Round pick.


actually, you add a little bit each month, right?

fwiw, even though I think there is a 0-5% chance that trade could happen....I truly would be happy if it did....and would love to be wrong. As a side note, beyond not thinking 2 late 1st Round Draft picks 1-3 years in the future do not hold nearly the value to interest someone in Deng....I am not sure why everyone always includes Zubac or Bryant as if they sweeten the pot....I mean both guys are basically G League players....there will be undrafted FA's this summer with similar potential to Zubac/Bryant...but again, I would happy to tell you how wrong I was if it happens.


I have never backed off that it will be two 1st Round picks. Yes, I think there will be ancillary pieces, but those are all things that you can absolutely live with if you're the Lakers. And if you're the Hawks, I mean, look, what's the harm in getting a free look at Zu or especially Bryant? (Of course, I'm sure the Lakers prioritize Bryant over Zu, but I am virtually certain that the Lakers wouldn't scuttle a trade over Atlanta potentially insisting on Bryant.) Thomas Bryant would absolutely be a 2nd round pick this year if he were eligible to be drafted, most likely before #45, so I don't think it's anything to sneeze at if Atlanta could get two 1st's and what amounts to the value of three 2nd's to take Deng. Bryant was 19 years old playing in the G League this past season, and showed out. Sure, he looked like trash in the NBA. He was 19. That's usually how it goes. He's a worthwhile prospect.

As far as the fact that you don't think a team will take Deng for what amounts to two late 1st's, teams have wised up to the value of 1st Round picks. It's why teams are now holding onto them like gold. I will say this again: if you're Atlanta, with many years of a rebuild ahead, what is a better way to use your cap space? They aren't going to be trying to sign players to multi-year deals this summer to try for the playoffs or something. They are going to intentionally suck again (by playing their young dudes; wouldn't surprise me if they try to move Schroder soon, either, and this is why Budenholzer wanted out), and aim to pick high in the 2019 Draft again, and most likely ditto 2020. Now, if they can get an even better deal (if Denver were dumb enough to give up #14 for taking Faried and if Denver didn't require even #30 back), I'm sure they will take a look at that. And, yes, you'd like the 1st's to be as low in the round as possible. But teams just aren't going to be looking to give up 1st's. We're one of the only ones that might be. If we were not in contention to get LeBron and PG in a month, I'd be advocating us being one of the teams that uses our cap space to acquire a 1st somehow.

Wouldn't shock me if the Lakers just go ahead and do the deal before the draft (or on draft night) and make it #25 and a '20 1st, instead of '19 and '21 1st's. But I'm speaking this into existence!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject:

If we get the 2max free agents and want to keep Randle, Deng gets shipped out. I still think the most likely outcome is a Pg and Randle summer. In that case, Deng may actually get back in the lineup playing backup PF minutes next year.

Failing that, he can go around LA cleaning out grease traps at local Burger Kings.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Bench him until he retires.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:08 am    Post subject:

This question gets more interesting by the day it seems.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:20 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
As far as the fact that you don't think a team will take Deng for what amounts to two late 1st's, teams have wised up to the value of 1st Round picks. It's why teams are now holding onto them like gold.


What? These picks get tossed around as filler in trades all the time.
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