Miss America Pageant Will No Longer Judge Contestants Based on Outward Appearance
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject:

As I get older, I get more tolerant of reasonable people I disagree with and less tolerant of disingenuous people.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:06 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:53 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject:

i think pageants are inherently and part and parcel about being judged on looks, and the participants for the most part i think are comfortable with that, the viewership as well. so if they want to just eliminate the bikini swimsuit part shouldn't that be a sensible compromise and end to this silly (for me) debate/conversation. i actually think it would be good to remove the blatantly about sex/looks swimsuit part and be done with it. i'd still be ok w age limits per the organizers wants etc. doesn't have to become so radical lol i guess to me pageant participates seem naturally eager to show off not only their talents and mind, but looks as well but if a participant is in it for the scholarship or just doesn't want to wear a swimsuit or that's not what the organizers want it to be anymore is understandable i think plus that part feels a little too on the nose and coercive anyway ala a fox news employee wewaring drab clothes or thick skirts or a sweater they aren't going to be at fox long unless i guess your greta van susteren i'm sure ailes was okay with her coming to work in a pant suit lol but anyways just take that part out, inject other ways to show off physical beauty, get creative, etc. put some life into the event and bring everyone into the fold. or just hire steve harvey to flub a line and it can go viral.


tl;dr: where are the (bleep) children
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:38 pm    Post subject:

"We will no longer judge our candidates on their outward physical appearance. That's huge," she said.

i thought this was just about removing the swimsuit part

that's just silly gretchen carlson should have said based on physical app. alone or as the primary thing or something cause if she's saying it's a show having nothing to do with looks, well that is disingenuous entirely.

also, i'm fairly sure a lot of ppl will tune out ? iono maybe not they might have lost the maga crowd for life though
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.

You didn’t report it. You responded with a personal attack and naughty words.
Dude, Father’s Day wore me out, so the thought of moderating you arguing with PNP over beauty pageants is almost more than I can bear.

Please don’t make me.


Last edited by JerryMagicKobe on Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:14 pm    Post subject:

ani007 wrote:
i think pageants are inherently and part and parcel about being judged on looks, and the participants for the most part i think are comfortable with that, the viewership as well. so if they want to just eliminate the bikini swimsuit part shouldn't that be a sensible compromise and end to this silly (for me) debate/conversation. i actually think it would be good to remove the blatantly about sex/looks swimsuit part and be done with it. i'd still be ok w age limits per the organizers wants etc. doesn't have to become so radical lol i guess to me pageant participates seem naturally eager to show off not only their talents and mind, but looks as well but if a participant is in it for the scholarship or just doesn't want to wear a swimsuit or that's not what the organizers want it to be anymore is understandable i think plus that part feels a little too on the nose and coercive anyway ala a fox news employee wewaring drab clothes or thick skirts or a sweater they aren't going to be at fox long unless i guess your greta van susteren i'm sure ailes was okay with her coming to work in a pant suit lol but anyways just take that part out, inject other ways to show off physical beauty, get creative, etc. put some life into the event and bring everyone into the fold. or just hire steve harvey to flub a line and it can go viral.


tl;dr: where are the (bleep) children


I’d like to buy some punctuation Pat.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:58 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::


it made me cringe too, to see grown men up in arms or upset over this.

many people feel that way when men discuss or opine on a range of issues such as women's health issues or abortion.

but i do find it more off putting that imaging us men on this forum talking about this issue (whatever it may be) makes you cringe. even though i find it weird men would care significantly about a pageant to begin with.. but i think it tangentially has meaning to people maybe related to PC culture or metoo or tradition....whatever it may be.

it is dismaying to know that our voice and thoughts before even being known or expressed are cringe inducing due to our sex

maybe we deserve your sunken and diminished expectations i don't know
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:19 am    Post subject:

People are overthinking this. I find the topic cringe worthy to me personally. You're free to discuss, not discuss, whatever. I find it weird that women want to participate in pageants but that's their right. I find it weird that people are entertained by it. But that's their right. I also find it weird that people love reality TV shows based on people stabbing each other in the back. But people have a right to make 'em and others have a right to watch 'em. And I have a right to say they make me cringe. Cuz they do.

If things were reversed and a primarily woman-focused message board started discussing a primarily men's topic about whether men should do this or that (viagra, sports betting, man caves, whatever), I'd guess many would have some sort of reaction.

But whatever. Carry on.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:

No more swimsuit competition, No more Playboy, Whoa is me. 😿
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::


Ok, fair enough. I’m trying to be the man my daughter and my children’s daughters (and sons) deserve, which means not being silent and accepting of behaviors or coercive stereotyping. I don’t intend to tell women how to feel about any particular thing as individuals or a group, I merely stopped taking a neutral stance on stuff, same as I learned to do with race.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

Aimee Teegarden: Recent polls have shown a fifth of Americans can't locate the U. S. on a world map. Why do you think this is?
Caitlin Upton: I personally believe that U. S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don't have maps and, uh, I believe that our education, like such as in South Africa and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should—our education over here in the U. S. should help the U. S., uh, or, should help South Africa and should help the Iraq, and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future, for our children.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::


Ok, fair enough. I’m trying to be the man my daughter and my children’s daughters (and sons) deserve, which means not being silent and accepting of behaviors or coercive stereotyping. I don’t intend to tell women how to feel about any particular thing as individuals or a group, I merely stopped taking a neutral stance on stuff, same as I learned to do with race.


I thought a little more about this topic. So let's say the topic had been: "The objectification of women in American culture, what contributes to it, how is it harmful and what needs to change?" And let's suppose people linked to various articles studying the relative impacts of language, traditional role models, TV and film, beauty pageants, porn, body image, etc.

Now that would be a starting point for a worthwhile discussion in my mind. But that wasn't the starting point of this thread. I realize you and several others tried to take the discussion to a more thoughtful, relevant place, and I appreciate that.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.

You didn’t report it. You responded with a personal attack and naughty words.
Dude, Father’s Day wore me out, so the thought of moderating you arguing with PNP over beauty pageants is almost more than I can bear.

Please don’t make me.


Hope it was in a good way.
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He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:40 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::


Ok, fair enough. I’m trying to be the man my daughter and my children’s daughters (and sons) deserve, which means not being silent and accepting of behaviors or coercive stereotyping. I don’t intend to tell women how to feel about any particular thing as individuals or a group, I merely stopped taking a neutral stance on stuff, same as I learned to do with race.


I thought a little more about this topic. So let's say the topic had been: "The objectification of women in American culture, what contributes to it, how is it harmful and what needs to change?" And let's suppose people linked to various articles studying the relative impacts of language, traditional role models, TV and film, beauty pageants, porn, body image, etc.

Now that would be a starting point for a worthwhile discussion in my mind. But that wasn't the starting point of this thread. I realize you and several others tried to take the discussion to a more thoughtful, relevant place, and I appreciate that.


At the end of the day, you can take the swimsuits out of the pageant, but you're still stuck with the same old BS of women being judged on appearance and performance.

It's kind of crazy that it is 2018 and the only concession to this kind of "pageantry" is the elimination of the swimsuits competition. However, I suppose that in light of our current decline into moral decay we are lucky that the Donald didn't dictate that they keep the swimsuit competition, but ban the swimsuits.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
Every time I see this thread title pop to the top, I cringe. For oh so many reasons. Then I imagine a bunch of men discussing the pros and cons of the topic, and I cringe again. ::clicking on something else now::


I’m not sure I understand this blanket statement. Hard to build a coalition if you’re going to dismiss half the coalition right from the jump.


I'm not trying to build a coalition or change minds. I was expressing my personal discomfort. I have no answers here. I stopped watching these things when I was about 10-years old when I had got that same queasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. It's always felt creepy to me. ::shrugs::


For what it’s worth, I understand exactly where you’re coming from. I am a card carrying member of the male gender, and the topic makes me uncomfortable. Sorry for bumping the thread and making you cringe again.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
ani007 wrote:
i think pageants are inherently and part and parcel about being judged on looks, and the participants for the most part i think are comfortable with that, the viewership as well. so if they want to just eliminate the bikini swimsuit part shouldn't that be a sensible compromise and end to this silly (for me) debate/conversation. i actually think it would be good to remove the blatantly about sex/looks swimsuit part and be done with it. i'd still be ok w age limits per the organizers wants etc. doesn't have to become so radical lol i guess to me pageant participates seem naturally eager to show off not only their talents and mind, but looks as well but if a participant is in it for the scholarship or just doesn't want to wear a swimsuit or that's not what the organizers want it to be anymore is understandable i think plus that part feels a little too on the nose and coercive anyway ala a fox news employee wewaring drab clothes or thick skirts or a sweater they aren't going to be at fox long unless i guess your greta van susteren i'm sure ailes was okay with her coming to work in a pant suit lol but anyways just take that part out, inject other ways to show off physical beauty, get creative, etc. put some life into the event and bring everyone into the fold. or just hire steve harvey to flub a line and it can go viral.


tl;dr: where are the (bleep) children


I’d like to buy some punctuation Pat.


I think pageants are inherently and part and parcel about being judged on looks.

The participants for the most part i think are comfortable with that, the viewership as well.

If they want to just eliminate the bikini swimsuit part shouldn't that be a sensible compromise and end to this silly (for me) debate/conversation.

I actually think it would be good to remove the blatantly about sex/looks swimsuit part and be done with it.

I'd still be ok with age limits per the organizers wants etc. doesn't have to become so radical lol i guess to me pageant participates seem naturally eager to show off not only their talents and mind, but looks as well.

But if a participant is in it for the scholarship or just doesn't want to wear a swimsuit or that's not what the organizers want it to be anymore it is understandable I think.

Plus that part feels a little too on the nose and coercive anyway ala a fox news employee wearing drab clothes or thick skirts or a sweater.

They aren't going to be at fox long anyway unless i guess your greta van susteren.

I'm sure Ailes was okay with her coming to work in a pant suit lol but anyways just take that part out...inject other ways to show off physical beauty, get creative, etc. put some life into the event and bring everyone into the fold!

Or just hire Steve Harvey to flub a line and it can go viral.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:

Quote:
But if a participant is in it for the scholarship or just doesn't want to wear a swimsuit or that's not what the organizers want it to be anymore it is understandable I think.


That's a part of the competition I haven't read posts discussing. Gretchen Carlson, 1989 Miss America, chairwoman Miss America board of directors, graduated from Stanford University

LINK

Quote:
Like the human face, beauty pageants can be pretty cover-ups that hide so much more beneath their facades. Did you know that hundreds of beauty competitions in this country award their winning contestants with scholarship money for college? It turns out that academics, as well as posture, is a huge aspect of the world of beauty pageantry.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.
rules..what did i say?I'm being serious. where was I saying something wrong?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject:

I thought the pageant was fine the way it was. And I think the pageant will be fine after these changes. I see the pageant as a business, and the costumes as uniforms. The pageant thinks the change is best for ratings. So they should be able to do it.

If your child is idolizing beauty queens and you don't want them to. Parent them. To be honest though, young girls don't need these pageants to learn how to idolize beauty. Our whole society teaches that to young girls.

With all that said. If it were up to me. All child and teen pageants would be banned. Grown men watching and judging underage girls dressed in outfits. It's creepy and disgusting.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.

You didn’t report it. You responded with a personal attack and naughty words.
Dude, Father’s Day wore me out, so the thought of moderating you arguing with PNP over beauty pageants is almost more than I can bear.

Please don’t make me.


Hope it was in a good way.

It was!

splashmtn wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.
rules..what did i say?I'm being serious. where was I saying something wrong?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.

You didn’t report it. You responded with a personal attack and naughty words.
Dude, Father’s Day wore me out, so the thought of moderating you arguing with PNP over beauty pageants is almost more than I can bear.

Please don’t make me.


Hope it was in a good way.

It was!

splashmtn wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.
rules..what did i say?I'm being serious. where was I saying something wrong?


Honestly, I don't think he understands.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:09 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.

You didn’t report it. You responded with a personal attack and naughty words.
Dude, Father’s Day wore me out, so the thought of moderating you arguing with PNP over beauty pageants is almost more than I can bear.

Please don’t make me.


Hope it was in a good way.

It was!

splashmtn wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
((COMMENT DELETED - JMK))


Fair enough . . . Good thing that splshmtn/pnp's grossly condescending comment that I was responding to goes unmoderated though.
rules..what did i say?I'm being serious. where was I saying something wrong?


Honestly, I don't think he understands.

no. i dont. I dont speak in code. now perhaps I left something out I thought I typed and meant to say. We are typing our words so emotions and what was really meant could have been lost. But i have no idea what you guys are talking about. Anyway, carry on. Back to the topic.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I thought the pageant was fine the way it was. And I think the pageant will be fine after these changes. I see the pageant as a business, and the costumes as uniforms. The pageant thinks the change is best for ratings. So they should be able to do it.

If your child is idolizing beauty queens and you don't want them to. Parent them. To be honest though, young girls don't need these pageants to learn how to idolize beauty. Our whole society teaches that to young girls.

With all that said. If it were up to me. All child and teen pageants would be banned. Grown men watching and judging underage girls dressed in outfits. It's creepy and disgusting.
now you beat me to it on the last lines. I've always found that extremely creepy.
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