Kobe Bryant doesn't buy the "LeBron has no help" excuses
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:37 pm    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
^ Right. But what was the reason we lost in 2008?

Was it because Kobe didnt “figure it out” or was it because the help we received hadn’t had time to gel yet?

I’m thinking its the latter because I don’t believe it all boils down to just “figuring it out”.


Kobe didn't figure it out in 2008. He doesn't seek excuses for that loss like LeBron. He owns up to his losses. That's the point.


Is Lebron seeking excuses for his losses?



No he didn't, never heard him once say 'we lost the series because I was injured' or even imply it. He wore it because well, the series was over. There was nothing to 'hide' from the opposition. It didn't seem to affect his play. He didn't play his best finals but didn't play his worst either. When else has he wore some kind of arm brace/leg cast when losing a finals series? Ok then. They lost the series because they don't have the talent that Golden State does. Simple as that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:40 pm    Post subject:

PG13 wrote:
MJST wrote:
ESPN looking like straight up fools today, some of them get what Kobe was saying, others are like "Kobe just doesn't want history to forget him cause LeBron is so much better than him." and "Kobe didn't wanna 'figure it out' when he had Smush Parker did he?!" completely missing the point of what Kobe said, and the fact Kobe included getting to the Finals in what he said as part of the equation. Kobe never made the Finals with Smush.

But leave it to ESPN to completely miss the point, and only utilize one sentence, so they can defend their Bron Bron.


I mean, Kobe didn't "figure it out" against the Pistons.


He didn't figure it out against the Pistons, Spurs(03), Celtics(08), Mavs(11) and every other year after that they didn't make the finals/playoffs, so it's kind of a meaningless point.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:44 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
https://sports.yahoo.com/lebron-james-played-finals-hand-contusion-suffered-punching-blackboard-game-1-044804918.html

Somehow contusion became "broken hand" and it's because of Lebron. First thing out of his mouth after the sweep was "I played with a broken hand"

He also said before game 4 that Warriors were way more stacked and was making excuses about his lack of talent.

I will give him credit he's done a magnificent job of keeping key media members on his side to shift the narrative when he loses.


How many times had Kobe mentioned his injuries? With as many times as he has complained about his fingers, you'd think the guys is playing with 4 fingers on each hand.

And making excuses the Warriors were way more stacked? Are they not? I think most reasonable people know the reason why the Cavs lost is because the Warriors have a massive talent advantage over them, but here you have Kobe making excuses, saying guys like Korver and JR Smith are 'good enough' against a team with Curry, Durant, Clay, Green, Igoudalga
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:01 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
^ Right. But what was the reason we lost in 2008?

Was it because Kobe didnt “figure it out” or was it because the help we received hadn’t had time to gel yet?

I’m thinking its the latter because I don’t believe it all boils down to just “figuring it out”.


Kobe didn't figure it out in 2008. He doesn't seek excuses for that loss like LeBron. He owns up to his losses. That's the point.


So you believe the reason we lost in 2008 is Kobe’s fault because he didn’t figure it out?

I can’t say I agree with that.

I don’t think the issue was Kobe figuring it out at all and more, our team just had some new core pieces newly acquired and we hadn’t had enough reps to integrate them. Didn’t feel that Kobe was the problem at all in 2008, or in many of the years we didn’t win.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
^ Right. But what was the reason we lost in 2008?

Was it because Kobe didnt “figure it out” or was it because the help we received hadn’t had time to gel yet?

I’m thinking its the latter because I don’t believe it all boils down to just “figuring it out”.


Kobe didn't figure it out in 2008. He doesn't seek excuses for that loss like LeBron. He owns up to his losses. That's the point.


So you believe the reason we lost in 2008 is Kobe’s fault because he didn’t figure it out?

I can’t say I agree with that.

I don’t think the issue was Kobe figuring it out at all and more, our team just had some new core pieces newly acquired and we hadn’t had enough reps to integrate them. Didn’t feel that Kobe was the problem at all in 2008, or in many of the years we didn’t win.


We're not talking about you or me, we're talking about Kobe.

Kobe never excused his losses. Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team. That's why he's saying you gotta figure it out. For himself, he didn't figure it out in 2004, 2008, and any other losses he wants to ponder about. We know he blames himself for 2004, I'm sure he blames himself for the others. That's why many times he got back to gym the day after or even the same day after elimination.
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team.



Isn't that what happens in any finals when one team wins and another team loses? The Warriors were/are CLEARLY the better team, like WAY better. Kobe admitted to him being the blame for the Detroit loss because HE PLAYED LIKE CRAP. Did Lebron play like crap against the Warriors? No he didn't, so why should he pin the loss on himself when Korver was 1/16 in 3s, and JR Smith and George Hill couldn't make a basket? If Kobe put up the stats against the Pistons Lebron put up in these finals(34/8/10) you really think he'd still be blaming himself?

And Kobe has never been on a team that made the finals that had a HUGE difference in talent with the opposing team. He always had Shaq/Pau/Odom/Artest and a few other players...He didn't have to play with guys like Love(who is useless if he isn't making 3s), JR Smith and Kyle Korver.

Anyway here is a video of Broussard on Kobe questioning Lebron's leadership. I agree with what he says 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Kobe's 'advice' on Lebron however, it is hypocritical considering he never followed this 'advice' himself when he was playing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAGmTuYvaU&t=351s


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject:

Kobe comes off as being a bit jealous. IMHO
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team.



Isn't that what happens in any finals when one team wins and another team loses? The Warriors were/are CLEARLY the better team, like WAY better. Kobe admitted to him being the blame for the Detroit loss because HE PLAYED LIKE CRAP. Did Lebron play like crap against the Warriors? No he didn't, so why should he pin the loss on himself when Korver was 1/16 in 3s, and JR Smith and George Hill couldn't make a basket? If Kobe put up the stats against the Pistons Lebron put up in these finals(34/8/10) you really think he'd still be blaming himself?

And Kobe has never been on a team that made the finals that had a HUGE difference in talent with the opposing team. He always had Shaq/Pau/Odom/Artest and a few other players...He didn't have to play with guys like Love(who is useless if he isn't making 3s), JR Smith and Kyle Korver.

Anyway here is a video of Broussard on Kobe questioning Lebron's leadership. I agree with what he says 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Kobe's 'advice' on Lebron however, it is hypocritical considering he never followed this 'advice' himself when he was playing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAGmTuYvaU&t=351s


Funny how you mention Odom and Artest yet put Love a legit All-Star with a parenthesis. You're credibility went down the drain right there. And of course Broussard, of course...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
george w kush wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team.



Isn't that what happens in any finals when one team wins and another team loses? The Warriors were/are CLEARLY the better team, like WAY better. Kobe admitted to him being the blame for the Detroit loss because HE PLAYED LIKE CRAP. Did Lebron play like crap against the Warriors? No he didn't, so why should he pin the loss on himself when Korver was 1/16 in 3s, and JR Smith and George Hill couldn't make a basket? If Kobe put up the stats against the Pistons Lebron put up in these finals(34/8/10) you really think he'd still be blaming himself?

And Kobe has never been on a team that made the finals that had a HUGE difference in talent with the opposing team. He always had Shaq/Pau/Odom/Artest and a few other players...He didn't have to play with guys like Love(who is useless if he isn't making 3s), JR Smith and Kyle Korver.

Anyway here is a video of Broussard on Kobe questioning Lebron's leadership. I agree with what he says 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Kobe's 'advice' on Lebron however, it is hypocritical considering he never followed this 'advice' himself when he was playing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAGmTuYvaU&t=351s


Funny how you mention Odom and Artest yet put Love a legit All-Star with a parenthesis. You're credibility went down the drain right there. And of course Broussard, of course...


Yeah, Other than Shaq, the players he mentioned would be more "useless" than Love playing next to Lebron
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george w kush
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
george w kush wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team.



Isn't that what happens in any finals when one team wins and another team loses? The Warriors were/are CLEARLY the better team, like WAY better. Kobe admitted to him being the blame for the Detroit loss because HE PLAYED LIKE CRAP. Did Lebron play like crap against the Warriors? No he didn't, so why should he pin the loss on himself when Korver was 1/16 in 3s, and JR Smith and George Hill couldn't make a basket? If Kobe put up the stats against the Pistons Lebron put up in these finals(34/8/10) you really think he'd still be blaming himself?

And Kobe has never been on a team that made the finals that had a HUGE difference in talent with the opposing team. He always had Shaq/Pau/Odom/Artest and a few other players...He didn't have to play with guys like Love(who is useless if he isn't making 3s), JR Smith and Kyle Korver.

Anyway here is a video of Broussard on Kobe questioning Lebron's leadership. I agree with what he says 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Kobe's 'advice' on Lebron however, it is hypocritical considering he never followed this 'advice' himself when he was playing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAGmTuYvaU&t=351s


Funny how you mention Odom and Artest yet put Love a legit All-Star with a parenthesis. You're credibility went down the drain right there. And of course Broussard, of course...


Odom can defend 2, maybe 3 positions and pass if he's not making shots, Artest play lock down D. Like I said, Love is useless when he's not making shots. BTW he shot 33% from 3 in the finals. And his defense as always was non-existant. Coincidence they lost? Not really. There's a difference between being an all-star and playing like one in the NBA Finals, which Love did not.


Last edited by george w kush on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
george w kush wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team.



Isn't that what happens in any finals when one team wins and another team loses? The Warriors were/are CLEARLY the better team, like WAY better. Kobe admitted to him being the blame for the Detroit loss because HE PLAYED LIKE CRAP. Did Lebron play like crap against the Warriors? No he didn't, so why should he pin the loss on himself when Korver was 1/16 in 3s, and JR Smith and George Hill couldn't make a basket? If Kobe put up the stats against the Pistons Lebron put up in these finals(34/8/10) you really think he'd still be blaming himself?

And Kobe has never been on a team that made the finals that had a HUGE difference in talent with the opposing team. He always had Shaq/Pau/Odom/Artest and a few other players...He didn't have to play with guys like Love(who is useless if he isn't making 3s), JR Smith and Kyle Korver.

Anyway here is a video of Broussard on Kobe questioning Lebron's leadership. I agree with what he says 100 percent. There is nothing wrong with Kobe's 'advice' on Lebron however, it is hypocritical considering he never followed this 'advice' himself when he was playing:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuAGmTuYvaU&t=351s


Funny how you mention Odom and Artest yet put Love a legit All-Star with a parenthesis. You're credibility went down the drain right there. And of course Broussard, of course...


Odom can defend 2, maybe 3 positions and pass if he's not making shots, Artest play lock down D. Like I said, Love is useless when he's not making shots. BTW he shot 40% in the finals.


Keep em coming. You dug the hole might as well keep at it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject:

I always viewed LeBron as someone who isn't very mentally tough like that of Kobe or MJ. Shaq challenged Dwight and he bounced, although I wouldn't call LeBron mentally weak to that extent.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject:

Mamba Mentality wrote:
I always viewed LeBron as someone who isn't very mentally tough like that of Kobe or MJ. Shaq challenged Dwight and he bounced, although I wouldn't call LeBron mentally weak to that extent.


Maybe 5 yrs ago but that “mentally weak” bit doesn’t apply anymore
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Yeah for sure
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:07 pm    Post subject:

http://www.bewarsetalk.net/discus/movieanimated10/bemmi.allu.gif
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:14 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
PRLakeShow wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
^ Right. But what was the reason we lost in 2008?

Was it because Kobe didnt “figure it out” or was it because the help we received hadn’t had time to gel yet?

I’m thinking its the latter because I don’t believe it all boils down to just “figuring it out”.


Kobe didn't figure it out in 2008. He doesn't seek excuses for that loss like LeBron. He owns up to his losses. That's the point.


So you believe the reason we lost in 2008 is Kobe’s fault because he didn’t figure it out?

I can’t say I agree with that.

I don’t think the issue was Kobe figuring it out at all and more, our team just had some new core pieces newly acquired and we hadn’t had enough reps to integrate them. Didn’t feel that Kobe was the problem at all in 2008, or in many of the years we didn’t win.


We're not talking about you or me, we're talking about Kobe.

Kobe never excused his losses. Kobe would never admit he got beat by a better team. That's why he's saying you gotta figure it out. For himself, he didn't figure it out in 2004, 2008, and any other losses he wants to ponder about. We know he blames himself for 2004, I'm sure he blames himself for the others. That's why many times he got back to gym the day after or even the same day after elimination.


Sure, but that doesn’t mean Kobe is right. That’s the point.

I mean, seriously, regardless of whether Kobe would, do you blame Kobe for not figuring it out in 15 of his 20 seasons?

I think he’s wrong, particularly in this case this year because there was IMO no amount of figuring it out with Lebrons Cavs vs Warriors as the talent disparity was too great.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

^^^^

Did you take another day off?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Compared to GS and Houston, every team is terrible. Super teams are where it’s at these days. That’s why CP3 went to Houston. And it looked like it was going to work until his injury. He never “figured it out” with New Orleans and the Clippers.

Seems like what Kobe is talking about is an idea that’s outdated. These days when you can’t figure it out, you create (or join up with) a super team. Lebron and Durant won rings doing it, and CP3 made the conference finals which is like winning a championship for him.


I think Kobe didn't need to say any of this the same week the finals concluded but Kobe did beat a superteam


My opinion is the 2010 Celtics were on their last legs and weren’t really a super team. KG was no longer an elite player after 2009. Allen was past his prime. Pierce was still really good but gets overrated in here IMO. Their big 4 were really good players but they were underdogs in a couple of series and I think Lebron should have beaten them in the 2nd round. So I think Lebron choked that year. Lebron was on a team with the best record in the league and still felt he needed to leave and start a superteam.

The 2008 and 2009 Celtics were better. I also think the 2009 Lakers were much better than the 2010 team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Which would also make a case for no more conferences. and lets have the 2 best on opposite brackets.


I certainly respect that opinion. I like the notion of the best teams competing and sub .500 teams being eliminated from the playoff. At the same time, I'd hate to lose the historical east-west rivalry.

The first thing I would do is use computer simulations to see how the playoffs would have played out differently over the past 20 years with a no-conference system. Then I would compare that with what actually happened to see if it looks like the change would be significant enough to lose the east-west rivalry.

That wouldn't be the end-all, be-all, but it would provide a good framework to evaluate the tradeoffs that come with changing the system.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
^^^^

Did you take another day off?


Hahahahaha.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject:

YSong wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
I always viewed LeBron as someone who isn't very mentally tough like that of Kobe or MJ. Shaq challenged Dwight and he bounced, although I wouldn't call LeBron mentally weak to that extent.


Maybe 5 yrs ago but that “mentally weak” bit doesn’t apply anymore

Every time I think Lebron has gotten over that "mentally weak" hump, he does something new that makes him seem mentally weak.

It looked bad enough when he talked about playing with a broken hand after the fact in the finals, when he didn't ever wear any protection on it during the games, but now that it's been revealed that his hand was only bruised, and yet he claimed that it was broken, i.e. a fractured metacarpal makes me lose some of the respect I've gained for him in the last 2 years.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
YSong wrote:
Mamba Mentality wrote:
I always viewed LeBron as someone who isn't very mentally tough like that of Kobe or MJ. Shaq challenged Dwight and he bounced, although I wouldn't call LeBron mentally weak to that extent.


Maybe 5 yrs ago but that “mentally weak” bit doesn’t apply anymore

Every time I think Lebron has gotten over that "mentally weak" hump, he does something new that makes him seem mentally weak.

It looked bad enough when he talked about playing with a broken hand after the fact in the finals, when he didn't ever wear any protection on it during the games, but now that it's been revealed that his hand was only bruised, and yet he claimed that it was broken, i.e. a fractured metacarpal makes me lose some of the respect I've gained for him in the last 2 years.



I understand your point of view. To me, “mentally weak” is a loaded term that is hard to discuss in a meaningful way. I agree that in the past Lebron has shown hesitancy to shoot in key moments; I haven’t seen any on-the-court failings like that in many years. He certainly has a big ego, and the hand thing might definitely relate to that, but I am not sure if that has any impact on what happens on the court. It could be like "The Decision" -- a big a-hole move that really doesn't say anything about him as a player. There's a lot of guys on the GOAT short-list who I've seen act like a-holes off the court, but it doesn't affect how I rank or view them as players.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
Compared to GS and Houston, every team is terrible. Super teams are where it’s at these days. That’s why CP3 went to Houston. And it looked like it was going to work until his injury. He never “figured it out” with New Orleans and the Clippers.

Seems like what Kobe is talking about is an idea that’s outdated. These days when you can’t figure it out, you create (or join up with) a super team. Lebron and Durant won rings doing it, and CP3 made the conference finals which is like winning a championship for him.


cp3 never had a chance to "figure it out"

you guys are missing kobe's point.

Lets go over this slowly.


The bron narrative is this.

He's the greatest... look at how many times he's been to the finals.

Other basketball minds say "yeah but look at how weak the east has been the entire time."

bron lovers: he's the greatest who else is in the finals like this?

Other basketball minds " i just told you, the east is super weak its much easier to do that in the east."

Kobe says " Once you get to the finals, odds are you're teammates are good enough you dont need to get more stars to help. you're already good enough to get that far." "now all you need to do is coach your teammates up to be the best they can be."

Ask yourselves. was JR smith the best he could be? Kevin love played better, Was Green the best he could be? how about clarkson? how's about hood? I'll give them a pass on G hill he had back spasms.

So if the bron lovers are saying he's great because he keeps getting to the finals. Then that means the eastern conf comp is great. which means his teammates are more than capable of beating whoever they face in the finals since they keep getting their thru stiff comp.

OR the bron lovers will finally have to admit. the east is weak. which makes bron getting to the finals not so big of a deal. and would mean thats why he can keep getting to the finals with this same roster more or less even though he wont win. its because the east is so much weaker than the west. Which would also make a case for no more conferences. and lets have the 2 best on opposite brackets.



CP3 played with Blake, DeAndre and JJ Redick as his 3 best teammates. I think that’s more than Lebron had to work with this year. I think Lebron with those guys would be awesome.

And I didn’t miss the point. I just think those comments from Kobe are outdated. Today we have super teams that are far more talented than the rest of the league. Expecting Lebron to “figure it out” against them is pretty silly IMO. We live in a time when the last 3 Finals MVPs are guys that joined up with super teams because they couldn’t win with their other teams.

Lebron is obviously the guy that started this too so I’m not exactly praising him either.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject:

He’s our best recruiter
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject:

Kobe going “dwight recruit” mode, pelinka needs to talk to him
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