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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:49 pm    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Yet people continue to discuss ways to trade Ingram to clear cap space to sign Randle... SMH....


It's why hopefully Randle gets in a sign and trade. Not Ingram.


Who does Dallas have that we would want?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:50 pm    Post subject:

"According to The Big Lead"...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
My goodness Drummond has come so far.

And Wiggins hasn't gotten better in four seasons. Imagine giving Jordan Clarkson a $146.5M contract.


Seriously. As I said, Wiggins is still a talented player, but he's not more talented than any of our 4 Lakers on that list. He really isn't. Not efficient on offense and provides no defense. I don't get the fascination, and, again, I'm even granting that this list has nothing to do with salary. By comparison, Ball already does so many things well, as his BPM suggests, even without the shooting, and imagine if that comes around. Ingram could be a Swiss army knife type. Kuzma showed a scoring polish and long-range shooting potential that Wiggins has not shown, and Randle just basically put up a .600 TS % season as a starter, while providing defensive versatility.

As for Towns, I'm still a huge fan. I just think his fit with Thibs isn't good. His talent is huge, though, and he's still very young.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
This list rearranged by 2017-18 BPM (current age):

Jokic 7.1 (23)
Giannis 5.8 (23)
Drummond 5.5 (24)
KAT 5.5 (22)
Simmons 4.6 (21)
O. Porter 3.8 (25)
S. Adams 3.3 (24)
Capela 3.0 (24)
Embiid 2.6 (24)
L. Ball 1.7 (20)
Beal 1.7 (24)
D. Mitchell 1.1 (21)
Tatum 1.0 (20)
Randle 0.9 (23)
G. Harris 0.9 (23)
D. Booker 0.4 (21)
A. Gordon 0.0 (22)
J. Brown -0.2 (21)
Murray -0.2 (21)
Porzingis -0.7 (22)
Ingram -1.3 (20)
Kuzma -1.3 (22)
Markkanen -1.9 (21)
Wiggins -2.5 (23)
Lavine -2.7 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear


and you do not see massive flaws in that list order?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Yet people continue to discuss ways to trade Ingram to clear cap space to sign Randle... SMH....


It's why hopefully Randle gets in a sign and trade. Not Ingram.


Who does Dallas have that we would want?


Honestly, the only thing that's even semi-realistic is the #33 overall pick, because they sure as hell aren't giving up #5 overall or a future 1st to get a player that they might be able to just sign free and clear. However, because we have the right of first refusal, maybe they'd part with a 2nd just to ensure that we don't match, and #33 is about as good of a 2nd round pick as you could hope for. Other than that, I can't think of anything we'd have interest in at all from them that would be something they would realistically part with.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
This list rearranged by 2017-18 BPM (current age):

Jokic 7.1 (23)
Giannis 5.8 (23)
Drummond 5.5 (24)
KAT 5.5 (22)
Simmons 4.6 (21)
O. Porter 3.8 (25)
S. Adams 3.3 (24)
Capela 3.0 (24)
Embiid 2.6 (24)
L. Ball 1.7 (20)
Beal 1.7 (24)
D. Mitchell 1.1 (21)
Tatum 1.0 (20)
Randle 0.9 (23)
G. Harris 0.9 (23)
D. Booker 0.4 (21)
A. Gordon 0.0 (22)
J. Brown -0.2 (21)
Murray -0.2 (21)
Porzingis -0.7 (22)
Ingram -1.3 (20)
Kuzma -1.3 (22)
Markkanen -1.9 (21)
Wiggins -2.5 (23)
Lavine -2.7 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear


and you do not see massive flaws in that list order?

No, not really. I know that there's a compelling, data-based argument that undergirds that list order. Please feel free to present specific counterarguments and we can discuss further.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
This list rearranged by 2017-18 BPM (current age):

Jokic 7.1 (23)
Giannis 5.8 (23)
Drummond 5.5 (24)
KAT 5.5 (22)
Simmons 4.6 (21)
O. Porter 3.8 (25)
S. Adams 3.3 (24)
Capela 3.0 (24)
Embiid 2.6 (24)
L. Ball 1.7 (20)
Beal 1.7 (24)
D. Mitchell 1.1 (21)
Tatum 1.0 (20)
Randle 0.9 (23)
G. Harris 0.9 (23)
D. Booker 0.4 (21)
A. Gordon 0.0 (22)
J. Brown -0.2 (21)
Murray -0.2 (21)
Porzingis -0.7 (22)
Ingram -1.3 (20)
Kuzma -1.3 (22)
Markkanen -1.9 (21)
Wiggins -2.5 (23)
Lavine -2.7 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear


and you do not see massive flaws in that list order?


lol... The New York Knicks have traded Kristaps Porzingis for Andre Drummond.
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:03 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
No, not really. I know that there's a compelling, data-based argument that undergirds that list order. Please feel free to present specific counterarguments and we can discuss further.


if that is the way you want to play it.....then there is no purpose. I have seen this game too many times to the point I could predict the LG users that would join your cause.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:18 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Yet people continue to discuss ways to trade Ingram to clear cap space to sign Randle... SMH....

Yes, this random reporter guy is who validates all talent assessment. Once he has written it and uploaded it to the web, it is the stark truth that Ingram is the 13th best talent under age 24.


Yes, and it's this random guy (BVH) who validates talent assessment and decides who stays and goes. It's not just this guy. Most media and scouts alike have BI as top guy one the team. In fact most have the order in this exact frame.
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
This list rearranged by 2017-18 BPM (current age):

Jokic 7.1 (23)
Giannis 5.8 (23)
Drummond 5.5 (24)
KAT 5.5 (22)
Simmons 4.6 (21)
O. Porter 3.8 (25)
S. Adams 3.3 (24)
Capela 3.0 (24)
Embiid 2.6 (24)
L. Ball 1.7 (20)
Beal 1.7 (24)
D. Mitchell 1.1 (21)
Tatum 1.0 (20)
Randle 0.9 (23)
G. Harris 0.9 (23)
D. Booker 0.4 (21)
A. Gordon 0.0 (22)
J. Brown -0.2 (21)
Murray -0.2 (21)
Porzingis -0.7 (22)
Ingram -1.3 (20)
Kuzma -1.3 (22)
Markkanen -1.9 (21)
Wiggins -2.5 (23)
Lavine -2.7 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear


and you do not see massive flaws in that list order?

No, not really. I know that there's a compelling, data-based argument that undergirds that list order. Please feel free to present specific counterarguments and we can discuss further.


So we should expect Otto Porter to be able to pull a Porzingis, Markannen, Booker, BI, Brown in trade?
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject:

For comparison, 2017-18 RPM data (current age):

Jokic 5.95 (23)
Embiid 5.00 (24)
O. Porter 5.00 (25)
KAT 4.20 (22)
Giannis 4.14 (23)
Tatum 2.85 (20)
Simmons 2.68 (21)
Porzingis 2.35 (22)
D. Mitchell 2.25 (21)
Capela 2.23 (24)
G. Harris 1.92 (23)
S. Adams 1.53 (24)
Drummond 1.43 (24)
J. Brown 1.40 (21)
Beal 1.32 (24)
L. Ball 1.05 (20)
A. Gordon 0.73 (22)
Randle 0.53 (23)
Murray 0.35 (21)
D. Booker -0.95 (21)
Markkanen -1.51 (21)
Kuzma -1.52 (22)
Wiggins -1.61 (23)
Ingram -1.66 (20)
Lavine -3.42 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear

If this looks better to you, note that Tyus Jones was a top-10 PG by RPM and that Otto Porter and Robert Covington rated out as better players than Lebron and KD last season.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Yet people continue to discuss ways to trade Ingram to clear cap space to sign Randle... SMH....

Yes, this random reporter guy is who validates all talent assessment. Once he has written it and uploaded it to the web, it is the stark truth that Ingram is the 13th best talent under age 24.


Yes, and it's this random guy (BVH) who validates talent assessment and decides who stays and goes. It's not just this guy. Most media and scouts alike have BI as top guy one the team. In fact most have the order in this exact frame.

I should start a blog so that the other Ingram haters on LG can appeal to my random internet guy authority.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:27 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
No, not really. I know that there's a compelling, data-based argument that undergirds that list order. Please feel free to present specific counterarguments and we can discuss further.


if that is the way you want to play it.....then there is no purpose. I have seen this game too many times to the point I could predict the LG users that would join your cause.

Suit yourself.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
This list rearranged by 2017-18 BPM (current age):

Jokic 7.1 (23)
Giannis 5.8 (23)
Drummond 5.5 (24)
KAT 5.5 (22)
Simmons 4.6 (21)
O. Porter 3.8 (25)
S. Adams 3.3 (24)
Capela 3.0 (24)
Embiid 2.6 (24)
L. Ball 1.7 (20)
Beal 1.7 (24)
D. Mitchell 1.1 (21)
Tatum 1.0 (20)
Randle 0.9 (23)
G. Harris 0.9 (23)
D. Booker 0.4 (21)
A. Gordon 0.0 (22)
J. Brown -0.2 (21)
Murray -0.2 (21)
Porzingis -0.7 (22)
Ingram -1.3 (20)
Kuzma -1.3 (22)
Markkanen -1.9 (21)
Wiggins -2.5 (23)
Lavine -2.7 (23)*

* coming off an ACL tear


and you do not see massive flaws in that list order?

No, not really. I know that there's a compelling, data-based argument that undergirds that list order. Please feel free to present specific counterarguments and we can discuss further.


So we should expect Otto Porter to be able to pull a Porzingis, Markannen, Booker, BI, Brown in trade?

If that's how you choose to use the data, then sure. Stripped of the context of age and contract, in a vacuum, Otto Porter will likely help your team win several more games next season than any of those other players.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
For comparison, 2017-18 RPM data (current age):


damnit.....I actually typed "I can feel RPM coming next" and deleted it right after the BPM post in fear BVH was thinking I was being rude. It feels like there is a reason many on LG seem to fall in love with RPM and BPM this past season....I just cannot put my finger on it.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

Giannis BPM

-1.8
0.5
2.4
7.6
5.8

Capela

-7.8
0.5
0.9
3.0

Julius

-16.8
-3.6
0
.9

Some of the players improved with experience... who would have thought?

Interesting statistic though... need to study it further... some of the players numbers are all over the place. There does seem to be a correlation with good players but not with efficiency necessarily. A lot of the numbers seem to be a function of high usage on a good team.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Megaton wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Yet people continue to discuss ways to trade Ingram to clear cap space to sign Randle... SMH....


It's why hopefully Randle gets in a sign and trade. Not Ingram.


Who does Dallas have that we would want?


Nobody it’s just another person wanting to trade our youth.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
For comparison, 2017-18 RPM data (current age):


damnit.....I actually typed "I can feel RPM coming next" and deleted it right after the BPM post in fear BVH was thinking I was being rude. It feels like there is a reason many on LG seem to fall in love with RPM and BPM this past season....I just cannot put my finger on it.

ESPN's UI sucks so much I didn't want to put the effort in initially. But why not, right?

I like how folks take it so personally, though. If I'm going to attack Ingram, I'll do it head on, not obliquely. But I'm just posting info (that was kind of annoying to collate) without thinking twice about BI. I was more fascinated by how awesome Jokic is.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:51 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Giannis BPM

-1.8
0.5
2.4
7.6
5.8

Capela

-7.8
0.5
0.9
3.0

Julius

-16.8
-3.6
0
.9

Some of the players improved with experience... who would have thought?

Interesting statistic though... need to study it further... some of the players numbers are all over the place. There does seem to be a correlation with good players but not with efficiency necessarily. A lot of the numbers seem to be a function of high usage on a good team.

Age matters, role matters.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
For comparison, 2017-18 RPM data (current age):


damnit.....I actually typed "I can feel RPM coming next" and deleted it right after the BPM post in fear BVH was thinking I was being rude. It feels like there is a reason many on LG seem to fall in love with RPM and BPM this past season....I just cannot put my finger on it.

ESPN's UI sucks so much I didn't want to put the effort in initially. But why not, right?

I like how folks take it so personally, though. If I'm going to attack Ingram, I'll do it head on, not obliquely. But I'm just posting info (that was kind of annoying to collate) without thinking twice about BI. I was more fascinated by how awesome Jokic is.


Who is the best player who you would trade for Jokic? Not just Lakers, but any player in the league.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
For comparison, 2017-18 RPM data (current age):


damnit.....I actually typed "I can feel RPM coming next" and deleted it right after the BPM post in fear BVH was thinking I was being rude. It feels like there is a reason many on LG seem to fall in love with RPM and BPM this past season....I just cannot put my finger on it.

ESPN's UI sucks so much I didn't want to put the effort in initially. But why not, right?

I like how folks take it so personally, though. If I'm going to attack Ingram, I'll do it head on, not obliquely. But I'm just posting info (that was kind of annoying to collate) without thinking twice about BI. I was more fascinated by how awesome Jokic is.


Who is the best player who you would trade for Jokic? Not just Lakers, but any player in the league.

All but Lebron, Curry, Harden, Durant, Davis, and a healthy Kawhi. If KAT picks it up on defense, if Simmons develops a jumper, etc., I can see valuing other young guys over him in time.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject:

Julius Randle should be wayyyy higher up the list.

He emerged as our MVP as the season progressed.
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