Can teams start trading now?

 
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BigBallerBrand
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:01 am    Post subject: Can teams start trading now?

i was under the impression that teams can start trading as long as they are eliminated from the playoffs etc....wondering why we dont see much activity until the draft
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Can teams start trading now?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
i was under the impression that teams can start trading as long as they are eliminated from the playoffs etc....wondering why we dont see much activity until the draft


Because players without contracts for next season such as Lopez, KCP, IT, Randle, Frye etc can't be traded after the February trade deadline, but they are still counted against the team salary until the new NBA year starting in July.

Look at this web page.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject:

DíLo was traded on June 20 last year.. so in a week or so from today weíll see more activity
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject:

some are projecting draft night to be potentially wild with trades
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject:

Many trades will surround draft picks, and teams want to wait until they've worked out as many players as possible and have their draft board firmed up prior to trading picks.

As someone else noted, the D'Lo trade was 2 days before the draft last year. There will be a strong buzz over the weekend and then expect some good movement by Wednesday.

Even if nothing gets done, the rumors will be at a fever pitch, given that is Summer of Lebron 3.0.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

I imagine the Lakers trade for Kawhi, if it were to happen, would be on draft day. I'm thinking it would take the 2018 #25 pick and the future 2019 pick to get the deal done and since you can't trade picks in back to back years, Lakers would select a player for the Spurs and trade that player with the 2019 pick as well as anyone else that completes the package.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

You can't trade your "own" picks in back to back years. We can trade the Cavs pick and our pick next year.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:26 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
You can't trade your "own" picks in back to back years. We can trade the Cavs pick and our pick next year.


That is actually incorrect. Wherever the pick came from doesn't matter. A team must have a first round pick every other year. As it stands right now, the Lakers have all of their first round picks. This year we have a #25. We cannot trade this year's pick AND next years pick because that would mean we have no first round picks in back to back years.

Here is how to circumvent that: Trade next years first round pick plus work out a deal to trade away this years pick AFTER the draft. The Lakers simply need to draft the player that the other team requests, then make the trade.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:46 am    Post subject:

Here's how you also circumvent that.

You make the pick for another team as if it's your own pick, and then trade the other team that player you drafted.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Here's how you also circumvent that.

You make the pick for another team as if it's your own pick, and then trade the other team that player you drafted.


You really should read the post above your own before posting...
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject:

For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:40 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject:

yuurin98 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.


And thus, The Stepien Rule was born. And now you know, the rest of the story. *closes dusty old book

Last year, between June 20th and July 1st, the biggest trades in recent history occurred (Chris Paul, Butler, D'lo, PG) so yeah. Let's pencil in next Tuesday as the prime Woj/Ramona/Shams site refresh season.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject:

yuurin98 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.


Sucks for them . Still, with the advancements in scouting, I doubt many teams would throw away that many consecutive picks in todays era even if they were allowed to. If they do decide to take on that risk and trade away future picks, they should be allowed to. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
yuurin98 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.


Sucks for them . Still, with the advancements in scouting, I doubt many teams would throw away that many consecutive picks in todays era even if they were allowed to. If they do decide to take on that risk and trade away future picks, they should be allowed to. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.


Tell that to the Nets the last few years
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
yuurin98 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.


Sucks for them . Still, with the advancements in scouting, I doubt many teams would throw away that many consecutive picks in todays era even if they were allowed to. If they do decide to take on that risk and trade away future picks, they should be allowed to. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.



No, too many bad decisions by the owner/FO causes problems with the local fanbase and then the league has to get involved.

Ted Stepien; the worst owner in NBA history

Quote:

Stepien believed he had some kind of special gift for predicting basketball talent, and it was this arrogance which lead to him making horrible trade after horrible trade. Technically Don Delaney was the teams GM, but he was acting at the behest of Stepien. In early 1981 the Cavs made their first of many notable bad trades when they traded a 1984 first rounded to Dallas for Mike Bratz. The Mavericks would be the recipients of many of Clevelandís first rounders. The Cavs also traded them first rounders in 1983 and 1986 and received mediocre talent in return. The 1984 pick is especially notable as the Cavs could have drafted Charles Barkley or John Stockton. The Cavaliers also traded their 1982 first round pick to the Lakers and because of the Cavs struggles that year the pick ended up being #1 and the Lakers added James Worthy to a team that had Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Nearly all of the first rounders that the Cavaliers traded turned out to be high draft picks. The early 80s seen a deluge of talented players enter the league and the Cavs missed on nearly all of them, and even though Stepien did not own the team any longer the fans still hated him.

The trading of draft picks became so problematic that NBA commissioner Larry O'Brien was forced to step in and in 1981 froze Cleveland's ability to trade draft picks. Unfortunately for Cavs fans, the league rescinded on this decision at the conclusion of the 81-82 season. The NBA stepped in because there was real fear around the league that he would trade away all of the Cavs first round picks in the 1980s and 1990s and this would in-turn cause the Cavs to became so unstable that they might disband.




Quote:

By the end of the 1982 seasons Cavs fan had had enough. They booed the team mercilessly and criticized his actions every chance they got. Stepien responded by saying he was moving to team to Toronto and they would be called the Toronto Towers. The threat was empty but it did catch the NBA's ear and in 1983 the league sent it's legal counsel David Stern, who would eventually became the NBA's commissioner from 1984-2014, to help facilitate a sale of the franchise.

Stepien balked at the sale initially but after Gordon Gund offered enough money he acquiesced and sold the team. The league sweetened the deal for Gund by giving the Cavs some additional draft picks.

The 1980s are a decade that many fans look back upon as being some of the funnest and best basketball ever player; that is of course unless you are a Cavaliers fan. The Stepien era left the Cavs decimated and to make matters worse the league was in the middle of one of it's strongest era's in its history. The Cavs did sneak into the playoffs in 1985 but had a losing record. The Cavs didnít have a winning record again until 1988, ten seasons after their last winning record.



The closest equivalent in current times was Billy King with the Nets. For the teams that are able to take advantage of a poorly run franchise in trades, it is great. For the league as a whole, it is a negative because of the imbalances created.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:22 am    Post subject: Re: Can teams start trading now?

BigBallerBrand wrote:
i was under the impression that teams can start trading as long as they are eliminated from the playoffs etc....wondering why we dont see much activity until the draft


There's just more information. You know more about player options and during the draft you know about how things are playing out. Even up to the draft you are getting acquainted with prospects in workouts. Teams just know more about the assets in play
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 5:24 am    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
yuurin98 wrote:
Ziggy wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
For the record, it doesn't matter whether you have your own pick or another team's, and it doesn't matter what happened in the past (i.e., one second after a pick is made, it's now a past pick and not subject to the rule). The rule is that a team cannot be in a situation where they are without a first round pick in future consecutive drafts.

As soon as the team makes its 2018 selection, it can then trade the draft rights to the selected player, along with their 2019 pick. But they can't trade both their 2019 and 2020 picks.


Thanks Larry. I know these rules have been in place for a while, but what is the purpose of these restrictions? Why can't teams be free to spend their own assets, or future assets, however they like? Seems like an unnecessary road block put in place to protect franchises from their own incompetent front offices. Kind of like a salary cap but for draft picks.

At one point, the Cavs had traded away five consecutive first-round picks, covering 1982 until 1985. One of them became James Worthy.


Sucks for them . Still, with the advancements in scouting, I doubt many teams would throw away that many consecutive picks in todays era even if they were allowed to. If they do decide to take on that risk and trade away future picks, they should be allowed to. Anyway, that's a discussion for another thread.



No, too many bad decisions by the owner/FO causes problems with the local fanbase and then the league has to get involved.

Ted Stepien; the worst owner in NBA history

Quote:

Stepien believed he had some kind of special gift for predicting basketball talent, and it was this arrogance which lead to him making horrible trade after horrible trade. Technically Don Delaney was the teams GM, but he was acting at the behest of Stepien. In early 1981 the Cavs made their first of many notable bad trades when they traded a 1984 first rounded to Dallas for Mike Bratz. The Mavericks would be the recipients of many of Clevelandís first rounders. The Cavs also traded them first rounders in 1983 and 1986 and received mediocre talent in return. The 1984 pick is especially notable as the Cavs could have drafted Charles Barkley or John Stockton. The Cavaliers also traded their 1982 first round pick to the Lakers and because of the Cavs struggles that year the pick ended up being #1 and the Lakers added James Worthy to a team that had Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Nearly all of the first rounders that the Cavaliers traded turned out to be high draft picks. The early 80s seen a deluge of talented players enter the league and the Cavs missed on nearly all of them, and even though Stepien did not own the team any longer the fans still hated him.

The trading of draft picks became so problematic that NBA commissioner Larry O'Brien was forced to step in and in 1981 froze Cleveland's ability to trade draft picks. Unfortunately for Cavs fans, the league rescinded on this decision at the conclusion of the 81-82 season. The NBA stepped in because there was real fear around the league that he would trade away all of the Cavs first round picks in the 1980s and 1990s and this would in-turn cause the Cavs to became so unstable that they might disband.




Quote:

By the end of the 1982 seasons Cavs fan had had enough. They booed the team mercilessly and criticized his actions every chance they got. Stepien responded by saying he was moving to team to Toronto and they would be called the Toronto Towers. The threat was empty but it did catch the NBA's ear and in 1983 the league sent it's legal counsel David Stern, who would eventually became the NBA's commissioner from 1984-2014, to help facilitate a sale of the franchise.

Stepien balked at the sale initially but after Gordon Gund offered enough money he acquiesced and sold the team. The league sweetened the deal for Gund by giving the Cavs some additional draft picks.

The 1980s are a decade that many fans look back upon as being some of the funnest and best basketball ever player; that is of course unless you are a Cavaliers fan. The Stepien era left the Cavs decimated and to make matters worse the league was in the middle of one of it's strongest era's in its history. The Cavs did sneak into the playoffs in 1985 but had a losing record. The Cavs didnít have a winning record again until 1988, ten seasons after their last winning record.



The closest equivalent in current times was Billy King with the Nets. For the teams that are able to take advantage of a poorly run franchise in trades, it is great. For the league as a whole, it is a negative because of the imbalances created.


Fantastic info! This was a piece of history that I was unaware of. I became a dedicated Lakers fan in 1987 so I just missed out on witnessing all of this.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:02 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
Aucks for them . Still, with the advancements in scouting, I doubt many teams would throw away that many consecutive picks in todays era even if they were allowed to.


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