Moritz "Mo" Wagner the 25th Pick Official Thread (Diagnosed with Left Knee Contusion, Out for Rest of SL, p.36)
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject:

I'm a little more doubtful than most on Mo's ability to jump into an NBA game at this stage, but I think he'll get there with some strength and G League time. I think when he does get stronger and accustomed to NBA speed, he's going to be a favorite for a lot of reasons. Love the hustle and demeanor on the court.

Communication on court looks like a strength for him. Very good in front of a microphone too, this is a very intelligent kid. That'll bode well for him in the long run.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject:

From what I'm seeing from Wagner, I think he has the defensive upside that people had hoped Norkic would have when he entered the league. But he seems to be acting upon it.


I think that strength and explosiveness will be two things he has to work on in the gym and in the next off-season and that will take things to the next level.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
From what I'm seeing from Wagner, I think he has the defensive upside that people had hoped Norkic would have when he entered the league. But he seems to be acting upon it.


I think that strength and explosiveness will be two things he has to work on in the gym and in the next off-season and that will take things to the next level.


Yup. Needs more strength and explosiveness. Can't wait to see what he can do with some more time in the weight room and with trainers.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:40 am    Post subject:

I'm bothered by his offense so far. Watched two games (*) and saw what I expected: clank city. It's disappointing so far, because this is typically a skill area that players can translate efficiency into their Summer league work straight from college. MG's basic Summer league shooting stats, to date:

Game
Date FG 3p
7/2 6-18 2-9
7/3 3-9 1-3 *
7/5 5-10 2-4
7/7 4-10 2-4
7/8 4-15 0-4 *

Summer League composite
FG: 22-62 (.354)
3p: 7-24 (.291)

It's a small data set to be sure, but it's what we have in hand. From a big man acquired for skills such as touch inside, interior moves and shooting form from distance, these numbers suggest he's struggling - at best - to score.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject:

Watching some of his dunks, he has plenty of explosiveness. He probably just needs to work on strength.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:03 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
I'm bothered by his offense so far. Watched two games (*) and saw what I expected: clank city. It's disappointing so far, because this is typically a skill area that players can translate efficiency into their Summer league work straight from college. MG's basic Summer league shooting stats, to date:

Game
Date FG 3p
7/2 6-18 2-9
7/3 3-9 1-3 *
7/5 5-10 2-4
7/7 4-10 2-4
7/8 4-15 0-4 *

Summer League composite
FG: 22-62 (.354)
3p: 7-24 (.291)

It's a small data set to be sure, but it's what we have in hand. From a big man acquired for skills such as touch inside, interior moves and shooting form from distance, these numbers suggest he's struggling - at best - to score.


Way too small of a sample man.

Look at trey Young for example.
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2019
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject:

judge Moe after year 2.. the fact that he's showing strengths in areas we didn't expect is huge right now. The rest will come. It's his first SL
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:05 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
I'm bothered by his offense so far. Watched two games (*) and saw what I expected: clank city. It's disappointing so far, because this is typically a skill area that players can translate efficiency into their Summer league work straight from college. MG's basic Summer league shooting stats, to date:

Game
Date FG 3p
7/2 6-18 2-9
7/3 3-9 1-3 *
7/5 5-10 2-4
7/7 4-10 2-4
7/8 4-15 0-4 *

Summer League composite
FG: 22-62 (.354)
3p: 7-24 (.291)

It's a small data set to be sure, but it's what we have in hand. From a big man acquired for skills such as touch inside, interior moves and shooting form from distance, these numbers suggest he's struggling - at best - to score.


He's got a more expanded role in SPL for sure. He's going to have to figure out what he's really good at offensively and stick to that. IMO, his 3pt stroke is good despite his poor percentage.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:20 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
I'm bothered by his offense so far. Watched two games (*) and saw what I expected: clank city. It's disappointing so far, because this is typically a skill area that players can translate efficiency into their Summer league work straight from college. MG's basic Summer league shooting stats, to date:

Game
Date FG 3p
7/2 6-18 2-9
7/3 3-9 1-3 *
7/5 5-10 2-4
7/7 4-10 2-4
7/8 4-15 0-4 *

Summer League composite
FG: 22-62 (.354)
3p: 7-24 (.291)

It's a small data set to be sure, but it's what we have in hand. From a big man acquired for skills such as touch inside, interior moves and shooting form from distance, these numbers suggest he's struggling - at best - to score.


Summer league is usually when players expand their shooting game due to the hectic nature of the game. With a defined role on the team and the coach in his ear on taking and understanding what is a good shot, he should be much better. Summer league really isn't the place to be making such posts. Kuzma struggled with shot selection throughout the season and understanding what is a good shot.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:09 am    Post subject:

Megaton wrote:
Mike D wrote:
Moritz Wagner Full Highlights vs 76ers (2018.07.07) NBA Summer League - 16 Pts, 8 Reb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZFz_MIRVgM


With more strength and conditioning, he could start at Center here. Might be why we haven’t signed Lopez back.

Just another great find by the FO.
Well Lopez is gone it looks like Wagner is going to get more playing time than we thought
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
70sdude wrote:
I'm bothered by his offense so far. Watched two games (*) and saw what I expected: clank city. It's disappointing so far, because this is typically a skill area that players can translate efficiency into their Summer league work straight from college. MG's basic Summer league shooting stats, to date:

Game
Date FG 3p
7/2 6-18 2-9
7/3 3-9 1-3 *
7/5 5-10 2-4
7/7 4-10 2-4
7/8 4-15 0-4 *

Summer League composite
FG: 22-62 (.354)
3p: 7-24 (.291)

It's a small data set to be sure, but it's what we have in hand. From a big man acquired for skills such as touch inside, interior moves and shooting form from distance, these numbers suggest he's struggling - at best - to score.


Way too small of a sample man.

Look at trey Young for example.


Shooting percentages for rookie first rounders have been pretty awful across the board thus far, with only a couple exceptions. There’s really not much you can take from such small sample sizes and such disorganized offenses.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject:

I wouldn't put to much stock in the shooting percentage for SL. Yesterday was the 5th game in 7 days and these guys haven't played since like March and April
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:46 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


Mo is a way better prospect coming out than Madson. Not even close. I don't know who picked Madson, but that would have been a bad mark in that GMs resume if we weren't winning championships at that time
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:02 pm    Post subject:

Wagner seems to have more basketball abilty than Madsen had back in the day. I think his potential to former Lakers might be more AC Green or Rambis ability.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:12 pm    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


Mo is a way better prospect coming out than Madson. Not even close. I don't know who picked Madson, but that would have been a bad mark in that GMs resume if we weren't winning championships at that time


I’ve always suspected Madsen was picked as returning the favor for work done to get us Kobe. Various bits of evidence to suggest that at the time.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:20 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Wagner seems to have more basketball abilty than Madsen had back in the day. I think his potential to former Lakers might be more AC Green or Rambis ability.


Moe has way more offensive tools than those guys. Ideally, he adds their strength/defensive work to his game.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject:

I hope he doesnt end up like Meyers Leonard...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject:

I don't get the pessimism in here really. He's improving his weaknesses and we're down on him?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:01 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


my man, you seem to be getting caught up in him being a good interview - and thinking that's not just one part of the equation, but a huge part of the equation. that's paranoid thinking man.

none of that less tangible stuff is what has fans excited. What got me excited about Moe in the draft process, was Josh Hart saying he didn't miss 3s in his workout. Couple that with the fact that he's hitting jumpers in SL from all over the court, and in dynamic situations, like an off the dribble 3, two games ago --- these things portend well for his shooting. Along with the fact that most prospects do not shoot well during Summer League - the frantic playstyle, pressurized situation, and 1st time shooting from that range in-game --- is a tough combo for even good shooters to overcome in SL.

Kid is 7ft, can shoot, and attack a closeout maseterfully. that is so valuable. He can even pass while attacking that closeout. he's agile on his way to the hoop, the step-through layup last game driving from the arc was beautiful. He can push the ball in transition when it's available.. he's got decent feet on defense and competes there.

I like what I see on the court. that's it
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


sorry to say, but did you even watch the games so far or are you just going by the Stats?

I think Moe so far - maybe apart from the last game - has had a very very good summer league for a prospect taken at the end of the first round. He‘s shown very good footspeed and some nice hops as well, both areas in which he was supposed to not be very good. That’s encouraging to me. He‘s shown that he might be able to switch and stay with Guards or Wings, which was the biggest thing for him this summer.

Now if you‘re harping on his shooting, look at the shots he‘s getting right now with everyone hogging the ball. He‘s a complimentary player and will have a field day with Lonzo on the break or on the pick and pop with LeBron or Ingram. Awesome role player in the JHart mold.

Just to put his performance into context: Marvin Bagley is averaging 10 points on 12% shooting from three right now.

Not concerned at all. You‘re judging him like he was a Top3 pick.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:54 pm    Post subject:

supermegamen wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


sorry to say, but did you even watch the games so far or are you just going by the Stats?

I think Moe so far - maybe apart from the last game - has had a very very good summer league for a prospect taken at the end of the first round. He‘s shown very good footspeed and some nice hops as well, both areas in which he was supposed to not be very good. That’s encouraging to me. He‘s shown that he might be able to switch and stay with Guards or Wings, which was the biggest thing for him this summer.

Now if you‘re harping on his shooting, look at the shots he‘s getting right now with everyone hogging the ball. He‘s a complimentary player and will have a field day with Lonzo on the break or on the pick and pop with LeBron or Ingram. Awesome role player in the JHart mold.

Just to put his performance into context: Marvin Bagley is averaging 10 points on 12% shooting from three right now.

Not concerned at all. You‘re judging him like he was a Top3 pick.


I'd bet that Moe is outscoring most of the lotto picks. lol. This is how we draft. nothing new.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Wagner seems to have more basketball abilty than Madsen had back in the day. I think his potential to former Lakers might be more AC Green or Rambis ability.


Except for the respect due a beloved role player who contributed to multiple championships, Rambis doesn't belong in the conversation with Wagner, even at this early stage for Wagner.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Wilkes52 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
if you put a lot of stock in summer league 3pt % , then you haven't been paying attention to how players usually shoot during summer league, over the years...


I think it's very fair to discuss what we see Wagner and the other guys do this Summer, and we have to keep the context of Summer league action in mind as well. I won't dismiss what he does well (or what he does poorly) out of hand because of the context of Summer league. It's all open for consideration.

Let's admit that many fan posts here reflect enthusiasm for Mo based on far less tangible stuff than on-court action. We all read that he was a great pre-draft interview for the Lakers, and that's nice stuff. Let's recognize that that's not going to carry the day for him on court very far. Mark Madsen was a great interview too, and like Wagner, a late second round draft pick for this club whose attitude and energy seemed awfully promising. Mad Dog never became much of an NBA player.

I have to trust at this point that Wagner will show he's a better player than his playing suggests so far. The basis of that trust is a general optimism for the club's improvement and to some extent a belief that the FO did its job well on draft night.


Mo is a way better prospect coming out than Madson. Not even close. I don't know who picked Madson, but that would have been a bad mark in that GMs resume if we weren't winning championships at that time


Mad Dog wasn't even the prospect that Kurt Rambis was. Agree. Not even close. White skin and Mo probably dancing just as poorly, that's it.
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