Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:53 am Post subject:
deal wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Lavar Ball could not have been happy about the Lakers not only drafting Bonga, but giving him a multiple year contract. While I think Bonga has far more potential than LiAngelo.....dude is probably better at basketball right now.
Lakers actually needed to someone like Melton who is probably more
NBA ready. Right now with Bonga, like I've said before, it will take some time
to see IF we get a return on our investment...
I was in on Melton....I would have been ok taking Melton @ #25....and I think his SL suggests he would have been a good pick at either #25 or #39.
Joined: 15 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: Tega Cay, South Carolina
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:59 am Post subject:
I remember last year in Summer league thinking that Josh Hart wasn't very good. I kept an open mind but he looked like a guy that was fully developed and who got hurt and didn't do much before he got hurt.
Hart started the season and wasn't very impressive during the start of the Season. Well look what happened by mid season he was getting some by Feb. you could tell that he was a player. He had a strong off season and is a NBA starting caliber 2.
Thing is Josh Hart was a fully developed man when he came into league and it took him 3/4 of a season to really make an impression.
Bonga will be the 14th youngest guy ever to make an opening day roster. He is raw and his body is not anywhere near as developed as he needs to be. Bonga as raw as he is has a chance to be a 5 position player and there are not a lot of them around. (Magic/Lebron) They didn't draft him because the needed him to play this year. If they needed someone to contribute this year they could have picked someone like Melton who would only be seeing the end of the bench this year.
I think that they take a year and figure out what they have with this kid. Is he a gym rat, does he work hard like the other young guys? Does he show progress and improvement? They have a lotto ticket and they are going to wait to see if it hits the jackpot. With a 15 man roster with 2 way contracts we can afford to have a developmental prospect who isn't expected to contribute.
The amount of improvement with great coaching and a great trainers can be significant over a 1 year period of time. Look at BI and Hart, heck look how much Randle improved last year. I can't wait to see how Lonzo and Kuz do this year. I think it is way to early to make any judgements on how good Bonga will be even this year. I expect that the Bonga in next years summer league will be a hot prospect or maybe more than that. He will still be on of the youngest guys out there too.
We should enjoy this kid. I hope he grows to be 7 foot tall and increases his quickness and explosiveness while working on his handle and shooting. I hope he adds 10 lbs of muscle. I hope he makes some noise in the G league and plays point guard. I hope that the kid is surrounded with a good support system and stays focused on basketball. This is a kid I can root for and one that I can hope becomes a great player. Of course I felt that way about Randle, BI, ZU and Lonzo. I think of Kuz, Hart, Mo, and SVI as guys that are more ready to play though all have great upside.
Anyway lets at least give this kid until Feb to see how he does in the G league. Heck SVI and Wagner will probably be spending a lot of time there too and not because they aren't good but because we are a really deep team.
I saw a bunch of posts on not being patient with 2nd round picks and I am the first to say I think we gave up on Bryant too early. A Brown was a fully developed rookie and he just didn't have it. Ebanks and Character where both head cases and were not hard workings. The kid form the university of Charleston didn't have NBA skills other than shooting. None of those guy has the potential upside of Bonga and none of them were as young or raw. This kid could be Tracy McGrady who didn't start out very well either.
Remember when the kids came directly out of high school there was only a 12 man roster and they were forced to play and just about all of them except for Lebron struggled. Moses Malone, Kobe, Garnett all struggled and they had to play before they were ready. Now I am not comparing Bonga to those guys he was a 2nd round pick which probably have a 30% chance of making it as a rotational player more less a star. But at least there is a chance that he is the diamond in the rough and are drafting team has done a good job on late round picks.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:44 am Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Seen multiple references to Drew Hanlen.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble _________________ Resident Car Nut.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
Release point differs when going left vs going right vs free throw
Edit - oh shoot, sorry, I thought this was the Lonzo thread
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
A coach will need to take him home and mentor 24/7... _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team !
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:56 am Post subject:
deal wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Seen multiple references to Drew Hanlen.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
A coach will need to take him home and mentor 24/7...
If it means anything, a lot of HS players have similar issues. Having a more compact shot, even before progressing to an actual jumpshot, may already fix arc issues. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
A coach will need to take him home and mentor 24/7...
If it means anything, a lot of HS players have similar issues. Having a more compact shot, even before progressing to an actual jumpshot, may already fix arc issues.
He's from Germany, no? I thought Germans knew how to shoot...(oh wait that sounded weird). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
^Even Dirk Nowitzki had an adjustment period the first two years in the league.
Nowitzki beat Team USA as a teenager based on his slashing ability, not his shooting.
One expect to find good shooters in Spain, Italy and former Yugoslavian countries. German basketball league is awful, all you'll get is an outlier talent, like Dirk. That's why I think it was a good move bringing Bonga to play G-League. I don't think he would improve a lot in Frankfurt. _________________ ....
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:30 am Post subject:
Eindhoven wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
^Even Dirk Nowitzki had an adjustment period the first two years in the league.
Nowitzki beat Team USA as a teenager based on his slashing ability, not his shooting.
One expect to find good shooters in Spain, Italy and former Yugoslavian countries. German basketball league is awful, all you'll get is an outlier talent, like Dirk. That's why I think it was a good move bringing Bonga to play G-League. I don't think he would improve a lot in Frankfurt.
I already had a conversation with Cole about right handed vs left handed players.
Right handed - More volume, more consistent, easier to square up feet and form
Left handed - Can be high volume, feet all over, twists into the shot more; but at times FAR better ball-handling. The difference sticks out when it's set shooters like Ingles/Ginobili. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
Disagree on the elbow. Check his more recent tape. IMO most players elbows do protrude out to a degree. Sometimes extreme (Reggie Miller), semi protruding (Ray Allen) or slightly out (Steph Curry).
He normally shoots a set shot or on the way up on his jump. Don't see a problem with that especially with his height. This also contributes to a quick release.
The jump shot will need to be developed which can be done with the Lakers staff.
His old YT videos shows a flat shot. It looks better in his more recent tape. In the video where he played a game of horse against possibly his trainer his shot had nice arc and looked fluid. He needs practice and game reps to learn not to rush his shot which tends to flatten the arc.
While I think Bonga has far more potential than LiAngelo.....dude is probably better at basketball right now.
So why didn't anyone draft Liangelo after #39?
Isaac Bonga was listed at #53 on Ringer's mock draft.
#54 on CBS mock draft
#56 on ESPN's draft rankings (not a true mock, but a list on Insider)
#40 on the Stepien
Yeah, there a bunch of players I'd have picked over Bonga at #39, but LIANGELO BALL a better basketball player? Please.
While I think Bonga has far more potential than LiAngelo.....dude is probably better at basketball right now.
So why didn't anyone draft Liangelo after #39?
Isaac Bonga was listed at #53 on Ringer's mock draft.
#54 on CBS mock draft
#56 on ESPN's draft rankings (not a true mock, but a list on Insider)
#40 on the Stepien
Yeah, there a bunch of players I'd have picked over Bonga at #39, but LIANGELO BALL a better basketball player? Please.
It's not a far fetched idea.
Liangelo Ball didn't get drafted because he CANNOT get any better.
Bonga is expected to get much better
But right now, I can see an argument for Liangelo being a better ball player. If you stuck them both on a college team right now, Liangelo might score more than Bonga.
I'm not saying it's true, I'm saying I can see the argument
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:27 pm Post subject:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
PlantedTanks wrote:
Seen multiple references to Drew Hanlen.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
Disagree on the elbow. Check his more recent tape. IMO most players elbows do protrude out to a degree. Sometimes extreme (Reggie Miller), semi protruding (Ray Allen) or slightly out (Steph Curry).
He normally shoots a set shot or on the way up on his jump. Don't see a problem with that especially with his height. This also contributes to a quick release.
The jump shot will need to be developed which can be done with the Lakers staff.
His old YT videos shows a flat shot. It looks better in his more recent tape. In the video where he played a game of horse against possibly his trainer his shot had nice arc and looked fluid. He needs practice and game reps to learn not to rush his shot which tends to flatten the arc.
It's subtle, but I think it's there.
As for more recent tape, he didn't get a lot of reps, not even a handful of 3s up, but they were flat shots during Summer League. Horse against the trainer didn't directly translate to floor time just yet.
I'm bothered by it because it starts at a lower set point to generate lift, hence it takes a long time to get the ball from shot pocket to release point, even with the set shot. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Bonga would be a beast if he predominantly operated in the low post. His handles, his footwork, his frame, length, vision, and soft touch - he would be a weapon. I see some Boris Diaw in him.
At this time his primary needs are gaining strength/weight and learning how to play PG in the NBA.
In this respect I prefer he works with someone like Coby Karl and others on the Lakers staff. Also hope that Rondo will be a mentor to him. No one better to learn from.
Not sure what others see wrong with his shooting stroke. His form is relatively clean and at this point he would greatly benefit from game repetition.
Elbow out right arm
Set shot more than jumpshot
Flat out of the corner shots
Flatter when it's a pull up shot off the dribble
Disagree on the elbow. Check his more recent tape. IMO most players elbows do protrude out to a degree. Sometimes extreme (Reggie Miller), semi protruding (Ray Allen) or slightly out (Steph Curry).
He normally shoots a set shot or on the way up on his jump. Don't see a problem with that especially with his height. This also contributes to a quick release.
The jump shot will need to be developed which can be done with the Lakers staff.
His old YT videos shows a flat shot. It looks better in his more recent tape. In the video where he played a game of horse against possibly his trainer his shot had nice arc and looked fluid. He needs practice and game reps to learn not to rush his shot which tends to flatten the arc.
It's subtle, but I think it's there.
As for more recent tape, he didn't get a lot of reps, not even a handful of 3s up, but they were flat shots during Summer League. Horse against the trainer didn't directly translate to floor time just yet.
I'm bothered by it because it starts at a lower set point to generate lift, hence it takes a long time to get the ball from shot pocket to release point, even with the set shot.
Yes I noticed his SL 3's were flat. My thought is he tends to rush the shot in game which flattens the shot as he reverts back to extending his arms straight-forward instead of forward-up like in his horse video.
Reading Trudell’s interview with Jesse Buss...they are pretty high on Bonga. I hope it translates.
Quote:
MT: How do you go from seeing Bonga in person with Rob Pelinka in the spring to acquiring a pick and then drafting him?
Buss: First of all, Rob is always searching for deals, and calling GM’s across the league especially as it gets closer to the Draft when things heat up, and he felt we had an opportunity to acquire that pick (No. 39). We just wanted to draft as many players as possible that could grow with the team because we thought it was a very deep draft, and there was a lot of talent still available when we were ranking these guys and looking at our board. So we felt comfortable trading a future pick to acquire that pick, because we thought we’d get someone good.
MT: How long have you tracked Bonga, and what did you see most recently in Germany?
Buss: Aside from the time Rob and I saw him recently in Germany, we had heard about him and watched tape on him. We got most of our intel from our two international scouts, Antonio Maceiras and Can Pelister. In person, I saw a guy that had tremendous size for his position, being a point guard, and thought he really moved well for a guy that big. He showed a lot of attributes I think can translate to the next level, like court vision and passing ability. Obviously, he’s a guy that’s going to need time to develop, and he’s got things to work on. We feel confident in his potential that he can be a player for us in the future.
MT: Bonga was the youngest player in Vegas at 18, and didn’t play many minutes. What did you take away?
Buss: I thought he made some nice passes. There was one in particular where he drove baseline and threw a left-handed pass out to the perimeter. That was something very few guys in the NBA can do, especially a guy that size. He has natural things that will develop. The question is, can he develop the rest of his game? That comes with the time that he’s going to spend in South Bay, and all that.
MT: Bonga is the first “project” that you’ve drafted in a while, if it’s fair to use that word. You’ve had a lot of success drafting players that are experienced in college and able to contribute right away, in addition to the high-caliber, one-and-done players like Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball. How is all that applied into ranking talent?
Buss: It’s very difficult to have three picks, and draft players that you expect to contribute right away. Sometimes you have to diversify a little, and knowing that we drafted Moe and really liked Svi, we couldn’t bring multiple players in that needed minutes right away. We wanted to take a player that we felt has a good long-term upside for the team. You have to look at the rest of your roster, and see if you have a spot where you can develop someone over the next few years. The job that coach Walton and his staff have done with our young players gives me a lot of confidence that they can really help Bonga develop into a player.
Reading Trudell’s interview with Jesse Buss...they are pretty high on Bonga. I hope it translates.
Quote:
Buss: ..... The job that coach Walton and his staff have done with our young players gives me a lot of confidence that they can really help Bonga develop into a player.
Interesting. I think we will see better this year how good Walton and his staff are at development. All of the young core still have multiple holes in their games. It will be nice to see some of the young core taking that next step and becoming potential stars/strong starters/etc. _________________ “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
Reading Trudell’s interview with Jesse Buss...they are pretty high on Bonga. I hope it translates.
Quote:
...
Buss: It’s very difficult to have three picks, and draft players that you expect to contribute right away. Sometimes you have to diversify a little, and knowing that we drafted Moe and really liked Svi, we couldn’t bring multiple players in that needed minutes right away. We wanted to take a player that we felt has a good long-term upside for the team.
This sounds like why they drafted Bonga over someone like Melton.
Reading Trudell’s interview with Jesse Buss...they are pretty high on Bonga. I hope it translates.
Quote:
...
Buss: It’s very difficult to have three picks, and draft players that you expect to contribute right away. Sometimes you have to diversify a little, and knowing that we drafted Moe and really liked Svi, we couldn’t bring multiple players in that needed minutes right away. We wanted to take a player that we felt has a good long-term upside for the team.
This sounds like why they drafted Bonga over someone like Melton.
Also Jesse Buss talking about Svi: “Terrified. We felt like he was basically a first round talent. We were surprised he was there at 39, and much more surprised he was there at 47.”
They must have seen something in Bonga to pass on Svi at 39
Long Term, Mitchell Robinson looked great in Summer League. Good news is, those players will be a dime a dozen real soon. Centers who can block, dunk, and shoot threes. They won’t be made any other way for the next few years at least, until the next NBA trend.
Reading Trudell’s interview with Jesse Buss...they are pretty high on Bonga. I hope it translates.
Quote:
...
Buss: It’s very difficult to have three picks, and draft players that you expect to contribute right away. Sometimes you have to diversify a little, and knowing that we drafted Moe and really liked Svi, we couldn’t bring multiple players in that needed minutes right away. We wanted to take a player that we felt has a good long-term upside for the team.
This sounds like why they drafted Bonga over someone like Melton.
Also Jesse Buss talking about Svi: “Terrified. We felt like he was basically a first round talent. We were surprised he was there at 39, and much more surprised he was there at 47.”
They must have seen something in Bonga to pass on Svi at 39
Or they had Svi ranked ahead of Bonga but already promised Bonga they'd draft him 39
Long Term, Mitchell Robinson looked great in Summer League. Good news is, those players will be a dime a dozen real soon. Centers who can block, dunk, and shoot threes. They won’t be made any other way for the next few years at least, until the next NBA trend.
Hopefully Bonga can show why we drafted him...
Don't know about dime a dozen... last one I can think of in that mold who got drafted was WCS who went top 10. Robinson, had he gone to college would have likely been top 10. Questions of character and desire were what dropped him.
The Bonga pick is weird... I mean, I know Jesse says they rank purely on talent, but promising him so early on in the process Kida forced us into drafting him or we would have muddied our name for changing our minds. Must be super high on him but like you, I would have rather seen us find a way a few spots higher to nab Mitchell to go with Wagner and Svi for another A+ draft.
Let's hope Bonga can develop into Boris Did type system player
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