| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
non-player zealot
Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Posts: 21365
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hellspawn wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | What do you feel his upside as a player is with those two fixes? |
It seems pretty clear GMs are trying to find the next Antetokounmpo, identifying those attributes in an extremely young and unexceptional player that would allow him to blossom into a player with limitless potential. Without wasting a high draft pick if the calculated gamble does not pay off. My opinion. |
_________________
GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakersForever123 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
He can bring up the ball, he is 6'10 with a wingspan of 7 feet (I personally believe his wingspan is probably around 7'1 or 7'2) and he plays good defense. He shoots 90% of his free throws which leads me to believe he can improve his 3 point shooting.. and at just 18 yrs old.. |
I don't think that's a fair assumption man.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| cal1piggy wrote: | | Hellspawn wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | What do you feel his upside as a player is with those two fixes? |
It seems pretty clear GMs are trying to find the next Antetokounmpo, identifying those attributes in an extremely young and unexceptional player that would allow him to blossom into a player with limitless potential. Without wasting a high draft pick if the calculated gamble does not pay off. My opinion. |
i was thinking BI upside comp instead of Antetokounmpo.
he already shoots 90% ft% instead of 76% for Antetokounmpo who has a 3p% of 31%.
with his drives to the basket and passing ability, it is possible he can match the shooting of 53% for Antetokounmpo. |
It's interesting that his free throw percentage is so good but his jumper is inconsistent, if they can bring the consistency of his free throw shooting to his shot that may work. May be a "shooting on the way down" problem.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Hellspawn wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | What do you feel his upside as a player is with those two fixes? |
It seems pretty clear GMs are trying to find the next Antetokounmpo, identifying those attributes in an extremely young and unexceptional player that would allow him to blossom into a player with limitless potential. Without wasting a high draft pick if the calculated gamble does not pay off. My opinion. |
i was thinking BI upside comp instead of Antetokounmpo.
he already shoots 90% ft% instead of 76% for Antetokounmpo who has a 3p% of 31%.
with his drives to the basket and passing ability, it is possible he can match the shooting of 53% for Antetokounmpo. |
It's interesting that his free throw percentage is so good but his jumper is inconsistent, if they can bring the consistency of his free throw shooting to his shot that may work. May be a "shooting on the way down" problem. |
I really don't like FT% being perceived as a 1:1 translation to jumpshot success. You can find 5 people at your local gym who are very good FT shooters, but in-game action, they don't have great jumpers.
Bonga's jumpshot form is rudimentary
there can often be FT% -> good jumpshooting correlation, but when a guy's jumper form is just nasty, idc what FT% he shoots |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Hellspawn wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | What do you feel his upside as a player is with those two fixes? |
It seems pretty clear GMs are trying to find the next Antetokounmpo, identifying those attributes in an extremely young and unexceptional player that would allow him to blossom into a player with limitless potential. Without wasting a high draft pick if the calculated gamble does not pay off. My opinion. |
i was thinking BI upside comp instead of Antetokounmpo.
he already shoots 90% ft% instead of 76% for Antetokounmpo who has a 3p% of 31%.
with his drives to the basket and passing ability, it is possible he can match the shooting of 53% for Antetokounmpo. |
It's interesting that his free throw percentage is so good but his jumper is inconsistent, if they can bring the consistency of his free throw shooting to his shot that may work. May be a "shooting on the way down" problem. |
I really don't like FT% being perceived as a 1:1 translation to jumpshot success. You can find 5 people at your local gym who are very good FT shooters, but in-game action, they don't have great jumpers.
Bonga's jumpshot form is rudimentary
there can often be FT% -> good jumpshooting correlation, but when a guy's jumper form is just nasty, idc what FT% he shoots |
what we do know is that he improved his ft% from <70% to 90% over 1 year
we also know that he is good at driving with the ball like the greek freak
the greek freak is also not great at 3p% - 30%
the analysis that i have read indicated that his drives would improve with more strength
strength is one thing we can count on bonga gaining over the next year or 2.
he is already at slightly over 200lb, whereas BI was 190 for his freshman year
he is 6'9" and possibly still growing.
he may also handle the ball better than BI, though his shooting % is definitely worse than BI right now at age 18.
if you watch some of his videos, he is incredibly tough - given some of the falls he has taken.
dont know how he got up from the one where he fell head first... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I really don't doubt that he'll be a solid assist guy, with a good handle. But, you gotta be able to shoot in this league. And he has the form of a 16year old --- which I'm not shocked considering you aren't guaranteed ideal development/coaching overseas. this is why they're keeping him here |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | | I really don't doubt that he'll be a solid assist guy, with a good handle. But, you gotta be able to shoot in this league. And he has the form of a 16year old --- which I'm not shocked considering you aren't guaranteed ideal development/coaching overseas. this is why they're keeping him here |
of course his shot needs lot of work.
it is a different level of competition, but bonga 3p% of 30% and fg% of 43% in the german league in 2017-2018.
just for comp, antetokounmpo 3p% = 30.7% last year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Purp 32
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 2154
Location: Inglewood, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Bonga is so raw, i'ts going to take a few years until we see what he'll become. This scouting department has earned the benefit of doubt though and they felt strongly enough to trade into this draft to get him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Purp 32 wrote: | | Bonga is so raw, i'ts going to take a few years until we see what he'll become. This scouting department has earned the benefit of doubt though and they felt strongly enough to trade into this draft to get him. |
Well we know the kid likes to travel, which is good, because there are a lot of away games. That's a start. 
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MJST wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Hellspawn wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | What do you feel his upside as a player is with those two fixes? |
It seems pretty clear GMs are trying to find the next Antetokounmpo, identifying those attributes in an extremely young and unexceptional player that would allow him to blossom into a player with limitless potential. Without wasting a high draft pick if the calculated gamble does not pay off. My opinion. |
i was thinking BI upside comp instead of Antetokounmpo.
he already shoots 90% ft% instead of 76% for Antetokounmpo who has a 3p% of 31%.
with his drives to the basket and passing ability, it is possible he can match the shooting of 53% for Antetokounmpo. |
It's interesting that his free throw percentage is so good but his jumper is inconsistent, if they can bring the consistency of his free throw shooting to his shot that may work. May be a "shooting on the way down" problem. |
He shoots on the way up.
Good FT % indicates that he has touch on his shots which for me is an indicator that he can develop into a good shooter.
I don't feel his form is as bad as made out to be. By shooting on the way up he is able to get his shot off quicker than it appears.
Shooting and dribbling are the 2 areas improvement can be made in a relatively short period of time. I expect by next season his 3 pt shot will at least be NBA average. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2017 Summer League Champs
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Jun 2018
Posts: 247
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18. |
Haven't people outside of Africa and China also lied about their age? I think Shabazz M. did and I believe he is from L.A. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29279
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 2017 Summer League Champs wrote: |
Haven't people outside of Africa and China also lied about their age? I think Shabazz M. did and I believe he is from L.A. |
Ya his dad claimed he was a year younger than he was.The incorrect birth date was put on UCLA's website.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29279
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mike@LG wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18 |
Not sure how cool I am with assuming anybody with an African name could be lying about their birth date.
There are places in Africa that accurately record birthdays.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DeeAgeaux
Star Player
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 1652
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18 |
Not sure how cool I am with assuming anybody with an African name could be lying about their birth date.
There are places in Africa that accurately record birthdays. |
I am cool with suspecting birth certificates from any third world country.
Like Ukraine.
Germany is not a third world country.
The chances of a German record being falsified is about the same as a US record being falsified. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
| DeeAgeaux wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18 |
Not sure how cool I am with assuming anybody with an African name could be lying about their birth date.
There are places in Africa that accurately record birthdays. |
I am cool with suspecting birth certificates from any third world country.
Like Ukraine.
Germany is not a third world country.
The chances of a German record being falsified is about the same as a US record being falsified. |
Ukraine would be a second world country
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Purp 32 wrote: | | Bonga is so raw, i'ts going to take a few years until we see what he'll become. This scouting department has earned the benefit of doubt though and they felt strongly enough to trade into this draft to get him. |
Send him to a college.
_________________
.
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chronicle wrote: | | DeeAgeaux wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | LakersForever123 wrote: | | RCS926 wrote: | | The Lakers FO is clearly banking on their player dev personnel to turn Bonga into the player they envision him to be. I'm interested in seeing what he looks like next summer league. If he hasn't improved significantly on his glaring weaknesses, then I'll question the pick. I don't necessarily expect him to be NBA-ready next summer, but he needs to show he can make an impact in summer league games. In the meantime, I'm willing to be patient this season with his development. |
This. This draft pick is for the future. It is very rare to get a player at number #38 who is able to play all five positions. I am willing to be patient and give him 3 years and go from there.. |
What is this assumption that he can play all 5? |
Assuming he really is 18, he already has a nice frame and still has room to grow. From a physical standpoint, I think he has the potential to play at any position. Obviously, his physical and skill development are extremely important and will determine whether his physical tools can be maximized, but that's the reason why the Lakers signed him. They are going to have a direct hand in shaping his development. |
He was born in Germany. He is 18 |
Not sure how cool I am with assuming anybody with an African name could be lying about their birth date.
There are places in Africa that accurately record birthdays. |
I am cool with suspecting birth certificates from any third world country.
Like Ukraine.
Germany is not a third world country.
The chances of a German record being falsified is about the same as a US record being falsified. |
Ukraine would be a second world country |
Ahem. Ukraine would be an old world country while Americas are new world. Not?
The fact that they are poor(er than....) and in a state of war does not mean they are not civilised.
And German precision is something of a trademark. Strange thing to question it.
_________________
.
Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
First world second world third world has nothing to do with being civilised
It means what side they were on in the cold war
_________________
Kobe |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Aaaaand getting back to 18 year old Bonga, he has a lot to
work on in the g league...hopefully the Lakers can turn him into a
valuable rotation player within a resumable time frame (12-18
months). Today, most of the kids picked from collage after him look
much better than he, so he has lots and lots of work to do...
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cthroatgtr
Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| This was one pick I have not been impressed with. Mo & Svi made sense, and Svi especially was a nice surprise. But Bonga has looked terrible. Swap Mitchell Robinson with Bonga and the Lakers have a great draft again. But with Bonga, unless he really develops, I just don't see it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerFan1972
Star Player
Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 3257
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cthroatgtr wrote: | | This was one pick I have not been impressed with. Mo & Svi made sense, and Svi especially was a nice surprise. But Bonga has looked terrible. Swap Mitchell Robinson with Bonga and the Lakers have a great draft again. But with Bonga, unless he really develops, I just don't see it. |
Robinson was taken before Lakers pick. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kawhileonard
Starting Rotation
Joined: 15 Jun 2018
Posts: 599
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Problem is if he is really 2 years from being 2 years away, he will probably get traded or released since our team is in a win now mode. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deal
Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kawhileonard wrote: | | Problem is if he is really 2 years from being 2 years away, he will probably get traded or released since our team is in a win now mode. |
True, but I think the FO will look at him again next off season to
determine if we can get something from him as a player. Now, I think
the stage is set in the FO's eyes, except for some added signing or
small trade before the start of the season.
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
unleasHell
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
NBADRAFT rated him as at 90, which is pretty darn good!
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/isaac-bonga
As a reference they also rated Wagner at 90 and Svi at 89.
The link also shows some clips of Bonga...
My thoughts are that he has a great set of skills which need to be honed and he would be better served and get better NBA-style coaching playing on the South Bay Lakers than in Germany..
The Lakers have enough youth on the team already and must have saw something in this kid that made them want to trade a future 2rnd pick. If they wanted help right now, they would have been better off taking Keita Bates-Diop!
_________________
“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.”
Last edited by unleasHell on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
