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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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His teammate Devonte Graham signed a $4m contract yesterday.
I mention it because of this exchange:
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Devonte Graham
Verified account @Devonte4Graham
Devonte Graham Retweeted Talkin’ Hawks
Not 1 time did u pick up full court at Kansas @Sviat_10 😑😂😂lmaooooo |
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Sviat Mykhailiuk
@Sviat_10
Replying to @Devonte4Graham
Didn’t have to lol we had you😂
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:45 am Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | With Svi people looked at "Wingspan and 4 years in college" and discredited his value.
The kid was at college at 16, and came out of all 4 years at the age of 20.
He's barely older than some one and done's. |
he was 17 years old his Freshman season @ Kansas |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:49 am Post subject: |
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Josh Jackson was older than Svi as a freshman when Svi was a junior. |
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Joe Pesci Star Player
Joined: 15 Oct 2017 Posts: 3885
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:56 am Post subject: |
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MickMgl wrote: | Al13 wrote: | he was roasted on this board after the pick because of his wingspan, he hits a couple of shots in the freaking summer league and now has already cracked the rotation |
A) There is an anti-white, anti-Euro bias in basketball.
B) Yes, people overreact to anything that changes that narrative. They will also overreact if he hits a slump or if a weakness is exposed. (see: Zubac)
C) Svi has done more than just hit a couple of shots. He's shown a lot of skills and physical abilities that people didn't think he had. And he's shown strength in areas that were expected to be weak. (Even if it is Summer League.)
D) Cracking the rotation would not be that big a deal for a good shooter. "Rotation" may mean 9th or 10th guy, and as a rookie they may only ask him to be a spot-up guy as opposed to everything else he's showing in Summer League. |
Well done. You should’ve also added though that there is a bias against “ideal” measurements. Unless you show that you’re a supernova wunderkind like Trae Young and Steph Curry, execs Want very myopic measurements out of their players.
When you couple his abnormal arms with him being white and Euro, lazy scouts probably assumed that he had “no chance” at defense. Why? Because white guys on the wing can’t play defense already, so he has “no chance” at playing it with 6’4 arms on a 6’8 frame.
Like all stereotypes, Mykhailiuk is a victim of lazy thinking. Lucky for the Lakers. _________________ A creative scorer, a wing defender, and a shooter. |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Svi can be a nice contributor given his IQ, shot, D, and balling in general. I keep seeing he is not signed to a contract, I wonder what's up with that? _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:11 am Post subject: |
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This guy is really fun to watch |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | The fact is, he's way better than that and KU fans all knew this going in. |
KU fans knew all this? Did Bill Self? Last year Svi was the 3rd option at best on that Kansas team (behind Graham and Newman).....and his Junior year he was considered the 4th or 5th starter.....and his Sophomore year, he was like the last guy in the rotation playing about 10 MPG. Just seems like a little bit of rewriting history when Kansas routinely looked to moderate NBA talents as their preferred options over Svi the entire time he was there. |
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tgi_friyay Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Nov 2017 Posts: 275
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Al13 wrote: | he was roasted on this board after the pick because of his wingspan, he hits a couple of shots in the freaking summer league and now has already cracked the rotation |
Welcome to LG. |
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Lakers_Jester Star Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2012 Posts: 5366
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Really really nice pick again by the front office. Jesse + Ryan and company been killing it |
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watchME Star Player
Joined: 06 May 2011 Posts: 3384
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Lebron
Myk
KCP
Ingram
Hart
Kuzma
Mo
But i thought we had no shooting even rondo has shot like 35% in the last 4-5 years. |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:27 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | kiimo wrote: | The fact is, he's way better than that and KU fans all knew this going in. |
KU fans knew all this? Did Bill Self? Last year Svi was the 3rd option at best on that Kansas team (behind Graham and Newman).....and his Junior year he was considered the 4th or 5th starter.....and his Sophomore year, he was like the last guy in the rotation playing about 10 MPG. Just seems like a little bit of rewriting history when Kansas routinely looked to moderate NBA talents as their preferred options over Svi the entire time he was there. |
Talk about lazy. Third option? It's a college basketball team, they play in a system. A system of combo guards where at any time the 1,2 or 3 could take the ball down, penetrate, score. What's more important though, is that college teams exist to win. They went to the Final Four last year so I'm thinking they shook out the best way it could happen.
Newman was a disappointment most of the year and only came on strong during the tournament. Devonte ran the team, as he should. He and Svi were the seniors.
Also Devonte just got a $4m contract yesterday so I'm not sure what you mean by "moderate". The year before Josh Jackson and Frank Mason III were doing the same thing.
EDIT: oh and early on he was not strong enough to commit to defense. It doesn't matter if you're Joel Embiid, until you can play defense you don't get the green light at Kansas, plain and simple. The lone exception being Wiggins, and that was a mistake in my opinion.
Last edited by kiimo on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Doc JC Star Player
Joined: 02 May 2012 Posts: 3123
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: |
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tgi_friyay wrote: | Al13 wrote: | he was roasted on this board after the pick because of his wingspan, he hits a couple of shots in the freaking summer league and now has already cracked the rotation |
Welcome to LG. |
It’s not that he’s just hit a few shots. It’s how he’s hitting those shots. His skills translate to the pros and are tailor made for the laker offense. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | adkindo wrote: | kiimo wrote: | The fact is, he's way better than that and KU fans all knew this going in. |
KU fans knew all this? Did Bill Self? Last year Svi was the 3rd option at best on that Kansas team (behind Graham and Newman).....and his Junior year he was considered the 4th or 5th starter.....and his Sophomore year, he was like the last guy in the rotation playing about 10 MPG. Just seems like a little bit of rewriting history when Kansas routinely looked to moderate NBA talents as their preferred options over Svi the entire time he was there. |
Talk about lazy. Third option? It's a college basketball team, they play in a system. A system of combo guards where at any time the 1,2 or 3 could take the ball down, penetrate, score. What's more important though, is that college teams exist to win. They went to the Final Four last year so I'm thinking they shook out the best way it could happen.
Newman was a disappointment most of the year and only came on strong during the tournament. Devonte ran the team, as he should. He and Svi were the seniors.
Also Devonte just got a $4m contract yesterday so I'm not sure what you mean by "moderate". The year before Josh Jackson and Frank Mason III were doing the same thing. |
It is a college basketball team...right, and you should put the ball in your most important players hands the most. Svi was always a contributor.....but last year it was Graham and Newman carrying that team through the Big 12 Tournament and to the Final 4....the year before Mason ate first....then Jackson and Graham. Svi was routinely underutilized while at Kansas....but you claim you guys knew all along. Ok, maybe you did....but Self did not make use of his full potential.
I said moderate NBA talent because of all those great college players that played with Svi....Ellis, Lucas, Seldon, Mason, Jackson and Graham.....only Jackson was a 1st Round pick...the others were picked in the 2nd Round or not at all. You mention Devonte's contract.....it was a pretty standard contract for a 2nd Round pick. He will make less than a Million dollars this season....and $1.4 Million next season....the third year is not guaranteed. It is similar to the contracts that Jevon Carter, Jalen Brunson, and probably Svi himself will get.....fairly common 2nd round deal. |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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I guess I don't understand what your point is. Selden, Mason, Jackson, Graham are all NBA players. Teams with those guys ALSO say they shouldn't have been second rounders. Selden is roasting fools in the Summer League.
If you think Self coached the game wrong by not letting Svi get more shots that's silly. He broke the ALL TIME RECORD for 3s at Kansas, which goes back to very nearly the origin of the sport.
The work that Svi put in, the commitment to defense, the weight training trying to catch up to older guys, it all paid off. He started all year. He was an integral part of a Final Four team that only didn't go farther due to the buzzsaw that was Villanova.
There was no amount of increased play they could have given to Svi unless they had him run the point and play out of position.
I just don't understand the complaint. |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Lakers_Jester wrote: | Really really nice pick again by the front office. Jesse + Ryan and company been killing it |
Svi at Kansas seemed to fit in the same vein as Kuzma at Utah. Talented, overlooked, committed to the system that doesn't necessarily showcase their own personal talent. They both KILLED IT during workouts.
Not saying Svi is going to hit the ground running like Kuz did last year - But I see some common threads w/ the 2 players and our scouting dept's way of finding 4 year players that can do more given the opportunity.
How bummed is Sasha now that we have the new machine?
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | EDIT: oh and early on he was not strong enough to commit to defense. It doesn't matter if you're Joel Embiid, until you can play defense you don't get the green light at Kansas, plain and simple. The lone exception being Wiggins, and that was a mistake in my opinion. |
ok, when did Kansas become known for their dedication to defense? Kansas was 6th in the Big 12 last season out of 10 teams in Defensive Rating....come on. I can't even recall many good defenders at Kansas in recent years....Embiid is the only player I recall being named to the Big 12 All Defense team? |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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If it fits your agenda to say he was overlooked and a system fit, I mean, okay. That's not the actual story but go hog wild with it if you want.
I feel like throughout this thread a lot of people have been saying "Svi is MORE than a shooter man! Look at those rebounds, he's pretty good at defense, he moves without the ball, he's got springs and attacks the basket!"
All those things were developed in his four years of college, he was a shooter with open court skills and not much else at 16. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:59 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | Selden is roasting fools in the Summer League. |
Selden is almost 24 years old...this is his 3rd Summer league
kiimo wrote: | If you think Self coached the game wrong by not letting Svi get more shots that's silly. He broke the ALL TIME RECORD for 3s at Kansas, which goes back to very nearly the origin of the sport. |
NCAA didn't universally implement a 3-point line until 1986. |
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Kava Star Player
Joined: 10 Mar 2010 Posts: 2173
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | If it fits your agenda to say he was overlooked and a system fit, I mean, okay. That's not the actual story but go hog wild with it if you want.
I feel like throughout this thread a lot of people have been saying "Svi is MORE than a shooter man! Look at those rebounds, he's pretty good at defense, he moves without the ball, he's got springs and attacks the basket!"
All those things were developed in his four years of college, he was a shooter with open court skills and not much else at 16. |
kiimo - if Svi wasn't overlooked then why did he drop to us in the 2nd round? Is it really ALL based on race and short arms? |
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mad55557777 Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 22801
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: |
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at this point, there is no doubt he can shoot with the best of them, and from what we see so far, he is pretty good at other things too(not great, but very good for a shooter, better than korver for sure).
Matt thomas was on fire in the last summer league, but he couldn't make it to the NBA because he lacks other things.
SVI on the other hand, can do a lot of things well.
i hope he can contribute early. |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: |
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ok, when did Kansas become known for their dedication to defense? Kansas was 6th in the Big 12 last season out of 10 teams in Defensive Rating....come on. I can't even recall many good defenders at Kansas in recent years....Embiid is the only player I recall being named to the Big 12 All Defense team? |
Are you serious please by all means go and draft a bunch of West Virginia players because their team defense ranking was so high even though all they do is play zone.
Self gets attacked regularly for not playing talented players because they're a defensive liability. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | If it fits your agenda to say he was overlooked and a system fit, I mean, okay. That's not the actual story but go hog wild with it if you want.
I feel like throughout this thread a lot of people have been saying "Svi is MORE than a shooter man! Look at those rebounds, he's pretty good at defense, he moves without the ball, he's got springs and attacks the basket!"
All those things were developed in his four years of college, he was a shooter with open court skills and not much else at 16. |
I am not the one with an agenda....you created an account to support your guy, and that is great....but you have made it clear that you and everyone at Kansas knew this all along about Svi. I am saying that while he was a good player and shooter....the fluidity in which he is shooting off movement, the handle and quick feet on defense were not highlighted to this degree while at Kansas.....if they were, he would not have slipped to #47. |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Kava wrote: |
kiimo - if Svi wasn't overlooked then why did he drop to us in the 2nd round? Is it really ALL based on race and short arms? |
Lateral speed, ball handling. Those are liabilities if you play him at the 2. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: |
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kiimo wrote: | Quote: |
ok, when did Kansas become known for their dedication to defense? Kansas was 6th in the Big 12 last season out of 10 teams in Defensive Rating....come on. I can't even recall many good defenders at Kansas in recent years....Embiid is the only player I recall being named to the Big 12 All Defense team? |
Are you serious please by all means go and draft a bunch of West Virginia players because their team defense ranking was so high even though all they do is play zone.
Self gets attacked regularly for not playing talented players because they're a defensive liability. |
right, because West Virginia is known for playing zone defense.....that Jevon Carter made a name for himself playing zone defense. |
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kiimo Rookie
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 14
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Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | kiimo wrote: | Selden is roasting fools in the Summer League. |
Selden is almost 24 years old...this is his 3rd Summer league
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Well isn't that part of it? You're saying that Svi should have gotten time over a guy three years older than him in college.
Svi got all the time he deserved in college. All I was trying to say is we saw he was more than a shooter. That was demonstrated time and time again, especially last year where he attacked the basket and was assertive driving.
Honestly he needed strength. The fact that he was so young means the Lakers get a rare luxury of a young player who is the age of a player who jumped early but instead has four years of experience. |
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