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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point.  I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
I think Lebron will be fine. He has what he wants, his family in LA, a max contract with flexibility and the Laker name. I doubt he makes waves.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
Good point. What will Lebron want? |
I imagine it will depend on which young guys step up or not. My guess is that the main young core has at most one season to show out or get out. So I could see Lebron eyeing Jimmy Butler to help him this season over Lonzo/Ingram's upside, or I think he could get frustrated with the team's 3pt shooting and weak center position and want veteran role-player fixes (Kyle Korver for Mo Wagner?).
I mean, ithe Lakers are the tenth seed after a brutal December with the trade deadline looming...does Lebron stay silent and take a risk on missing the playoffs for the first time in 14 years, or does he go to Magic and ask for personnel and/or coaching changes to be made? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
LeBron already supported the Lakers youth over getting a win now player, he said so in his interview with Rachel Nichols... he has a FO he can trust unlike in Cleveland were he had a problem with there management which played a part in his LeGM role. |
True, Lebron doesn't have to deal with any of the baggage he dealt with in Cleveland. But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well?
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lakersibleed
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
Good point. What will Lebron want? |
I imagine it will depend on which young guys step up or not. My guess is that the main young core has at most one season to show out or get out. So I could see Lebron eyeing Jimmy Butler to help him this season over Lonzo/Ingram's upside, or I think he could get frustrated with the team's 3pt shooting and weak center position and want veteran role-player fixes (Kyle Korver for Mo Wagner?).
I mean, ithe Lakers are the tenth seed after a brutal December with the trade deadline looming...does Lebron stay silent and take a risk on missing the playoffs for the first time in 14 years, or does he go to Magic and ask for personnel and/or coaching changes to be made? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. |
With the veteran additions this year I think the pressure to trade any of our young players is eliminated. You just have to let them go out there and see what they can do and if they cant perform they sit in the playoffs.
Also, I think as long as the Lakers are in position to make the playoffs Lebron is going to be fine... He already said "Just get me in the playoffs and we will see what happens". Im not sure they are going to be concerned about what place we come in as far as regular season record go's, but I cant see a roster this talented not making the playoffs in any league at any time! Its almost offensive to suggest that we will not make the playoffs...lol |
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RG73
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well? |
He was in his 20s. People grow up and change their priorities. There's been no indication he's trying to play GM in LA that I am aware of, nor any indication that he's even interested. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well? |
He was in his 20s. People grow up and change their priorities. There's been no indication he's trying to play GM in LA that I am aware of, nor any indication that he's even interested. |
And judging by the moves that we made, or most importantly, did't make this offseason after Lebron was onboard give me a lot of hope.
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
LeBron already supported the Lakers youth over getting a win now player, he said so in his interview with Rachel Nichols... he has a FO he can trust unlike in Cleveland were he had a problem with there management which played a part in his LeGM role. |
True, Lebron doesn't have to deal with any of the baggage he dealt with in Cleveland. But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well? |
It doesn’t matter if he played the LeGM role in Miami, he backed it up by going to the finals 4 straight times and winning back-2-back titles. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersibleed wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
Good point. What will Lebron want? |
I imagine it will depend on which young guys step up or not. My guess is that the main young core has at most one season to show out or get out. So I could see Lebron eyeing Jimmy Butler to help him this season over Lonzo/Ingram's upside, or I think he could get frustrated with the team's 3pt shooting and weak center position and want veteran role-player fixes (Kyle Korver for Mo Wagner?).
I mean, ithe Lakers are the tenth seed after a brutal December with the trade deadline looming...does Lebron stay silent and take a risk on missing the playoffs for the first time in 14 years, or does he go to Magic and ask for personnel and/or coaching changes to be made? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. |
With the veteran additions this year I think the pressure to trade any of our young players is eliminated. You just have to let them go out there and see what they can do and if they cant perform they sit in the playoffs.
Also, I think as long as the Lakers are in position to make the playoffs Lebron is going to be fine... He already said "Just get me in the playoffs and we will see what happens". Im not sure they are going to be concerned about what place we come in as far as regular season record go's, but I cant see a roster this talented not making the playoffs in any league at any time! Its almost offensive to suggest that we will not make the playoffs...lol |
Well then the problem is that the vets outside of KCP may not be that good.
For comparison, Cleveland had 2.5 players who posted above a +2.0 RPM last season: Love, Korver, and Nance post-trade. The Lakers 2018-19 roster has only one returning or newly added player who posted a +1.0 RPM or greater and that was Lonzo. Obviously Lebron (+4.96 RPM) will be the tide that lifts all boats, but is the roster all that talented besides LBJ? Are there any non-role-players on the roster to pick up the scoring load if Lebron is hurt, resting, or off his game one night? Hopefully Ingram, Kuzma, and Zo are all ready to take The Leap.
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lakersibleed
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Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersibleed wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
Counterpoint: the 1999-2014 Spurs. A team can prioritize "win now" without sacrificing it's future for short-term gains. |
Good point. I had to think about a response.
I would argue that San Antonio never embraced a true "win now" philosophy. They didn't trade away young players and draft choices looking for the immediate fix. They made fabulous long-term decisions that led to many years of being contenders. I think that is what Magic and Pelinka are trying to emulate more that the old George Allen philosophy. |
It'll be intriguing to see if Maginka's "hybrid" approach clashes with GM Lebron who has very much advocated a George Allen "win now" approach over the past few years. Obviously the onus is on the young guys to perform, but will Lebron remain patient with the youths' inevitable growing pains during a first round playoff series and how will the front office respond? |
Good point. What will Lebron want? |
I imagine it will depend on which young guys step up or not. My guess is that the main young core has at most one season to show out or get out. So I could see Lebron eyeing Jimmy Butler to help him this season over Lonzo/Ingram's upside, or I think he could get frustrated with the team's 3pt shooting and weak center position and want veteran role-player fixes (Kyle Korver for Mo Wagner?).
I mean, ithe Lakers are the tenth seed after a brutal December with the trade deadline looming...does Lebron stay silent and take a risk on missing the playoffs for the first time in 14 years, or does he go to Magic and ask for personnel and/or coaching changes to be made? It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. |
With the veteran additions this year I think the pressure to trade any of our young players is eliminated. You just have to let them go out there and see what they can do and if they cant perform they sit in the playoffs.
Also, I think as long as the Lakers are in position to make the playoffs Lebron is going to be fine... He already said "Just get me in the playoffs and we will see what happens". Im not sure they are going to be concerned about what place we come in as far as regular season record go's, but I cant see a roster this talented not making the playoffs in any league at any time! Its almost offensive to suggest that we will not make the playoffs...lol |
Well then the problem is that the vets outside of KCP may not be that good.
For comparison, Cleveland had 2.5 players who posted above a +2.0 RPM last season: Love, Korver, and Nance post-trade. The Lakers 2018-19 roster has only one returning or newly added player who posted a +1.0 RPM or greater and that was Lonzo. Obviously Lebron (+4.96 RPM) will be the tide that lifts all boats, but is the roster all that talented besides LBJ? Are there any non-role-players on the roster to pick up the scoring load if Lebron is hurt, resting, or off his game one night? Hopefully Ingram, Kuzma, and Zo are all ready to take The Leap. |
Somehow, I dont feel like scoring is going to be this teams problem! To many guys that can create there own shot and shots for others! I mean if you ask me I think a guy like Beasley would love to go out there for extended minutes with a green light to shoot because Lebron is off this game or any of the other wings is struggling! |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well? |
He was in his 20s. People grow up and change their priorities. There's been no indication he's trying to play GM in LA that I am aware of, nor any indication that he's even interested. |
The reports were that Lebron wanted Stephenson. That makes me question his talent evaluation skills.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | But wasn't the rift between he and Riley in Miami exacerbated by Lebron's efforts to play GM, as well? |
He was in his 20s. People grow up and change their priorities. There's been no indication he's trying to play GM in LA that I am aware of, nor any indication that he's even interested. |
The reports were that Lebron wanted Stephenson. That makes me question his talent evaluation skills. |
Reminds me of those who say that Magic doesn’t know anything because he was making wrong assumptions about players coming out of the draft.. |
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Judah
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | oldlakerfan wrote: | | We do have to be realistic and change our perspective the playing time these young guys will get now that we are in a win now mode. Luke will be juggling the lineup figuring out the best combinations early in the season with your young core and vets. Svi and Wagner probably won't get much time as they are not core to our immediate performance as a team. That said I think Svi is ready to contribute now and with injuries and such he will eventually get a shot at the rotation. |
Are the Lakers in a "win now" mode in 2018-19? I definitely believe that they will be there in 2019-20. With five players on one year contracts (KCP, McGee, Stephenson, Beasley and Rondo) and Zu's contract expiring, it seems as though the Lakers are going to need BI, Kuz, Ball, Svi, Wagner, and Hart to have quite a bit of experience before the 2019-20 season starts. It will be interesting to see how Luke manages it. |
I mean, is there any reason to believe they aren't? Why wouldn't they be? |
Why? Magic and Pelika are not acting like they are in a "win now" mode.
For those of us who are "mature" enough to remember, former LA Rams coach George Allen was the expert of the "win now" philosophy. He traded draft choices and young players for the veterans that he wanted on his team. He wanted to win and he didn't want rookies and young players to screw it up. The Lakers trade for Nash and Howard were "win now" types of trades that hobbled the team years later as the front office hoped to bring a championship then. That is what a true "win now" philosophy looks like.
If the Lakers were truly in a "win now" situation, they would have traded for Kawhi last summer. The "win now" mode looks like what Cleveland did these past few years in which they have traded away valuable young talent (for example, Kyrie Irving--I bet they wish that they had that trade to do over again) looking to bring championships immediately. That is not what the Lakers are doing. To me, the Lakers are still in a "semi-development" mode that will likely transition to "win now" very soon (2019-20). |
So they've been unashamedly open that they constructed this year's team with the expressed purpose of beating the reigning back to back champions, but they aren't trying to win it all? You don't try to knock the king off of his own throne unless you want to sit on it yourself. |
They have been open that this is year one of a two year plan. Do they want to win? Sure. Have they done everything they could to give them the best chance to win? Not so far. |
But what more were they supposed to do? Gut the young core for a star? To say the least, it's very, very debatable that that would've put them in a better position to win this year. But my actual argument still hasn't been touched. I suppose it's possible to put a little red dot on Golden State's forehead, but not aim for a championship...somehow.
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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Judah
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Joined: 23 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | But what more were they supposed to do? Gut the young core for a star? To say the least, it's very, very debatable that that would've put them in a better position to win this year. But my actual argument still hasn't been touched. I suppose it's possible to put a little red dot on Golden State's forehead, but not aim for a championship...somehow. |
Gutting the core for a star is what a "win now" strategy calls for. They haven't done it. They are not in a "win now" mode. They may say they are but their actions are not consistent with what they say they are doing.
I am not saying that they are making a mistake. I think they are doing the right thing. They are trying to build a multi-year contender that will win championships a few years from now. The notion that they are doing everything to win a championship this next season does not seem to be accurate. |
Why?
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“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| oldlakerfan wrote: | | Judah wrote: | With Svi I think it may be a situational thing. If the team needs a spark and/or some shooting, his number is called. And if he shows that his shooting and smart, controlled play can elevate a unit when he's out there, then he'd have a case for being in the rotation, and it just may happen at that point.
And though Svi appears to have a better chance of making an impact from the start, I could see Wagner getting situational minutes as well if the team needs a spark and Luke isn't happy with a front court player or the overall energy of the team. Phil used Luke that way if he was displeased with the ball movement. |
I agree Svi may struggle to have a consistent role this year which is okay. He is really young and it is a long season. On a good team, which this is, you normally bring the young guys along slowly. There are a bunch of vets that are going to want and expect playing time.
I see Svi being a guy that comes in with a pressure team to help shoot us back into a game. Eventually he will probably force his way into the lineup as his all round game is just so very good. I can see before the trade deadline some of our players being moved which will open us a regular spot in the rotation for Svi providing he deserves it.
We do have to be realistic and change our perspective the playing time these young guys will get now that we are in a win now mode. Luke will be juggling the lineup figuring out the best combinations early in the season with your young core and vets. Svi and Wagner probably won't get much time as they are not core to our immediate performance as a team. That said I think Svi is ready to contribute now and with injuries and such he will eventually get a shot at the rotation.
At some point they will figure out that the best shooter on the team will only be covered 1 on 1 which will give him an open shot much of the time and he will be a very dangerous weapon. It may take so time but this is the future. |
Well, who's ahead of Svi on the depth chart?
Hart?
KCP?
Stevenson?
Ingram?
LeBron?
Only 2 players on that list that has a possibility of getting moved are KCP and Stephenson. Each are on 1 year deals. The Lakers are not taking back any salary so it'll have to be for someone on a 1 yr deal coming back or draft picks, or both.
If we're moving either, that means that they aren't a good fit w/ us. KCP's harder to move since he has a bigger contract. Stevenson probably has no trade value if he's not a good fit w/ us. Even moving Stephenson probably doesn't open up minutes for Svi. Our rotation right now is already 10 deep. If we trade Stephenson, we'll probably just go 9 deep.
1) LeBron
2) Kuzma
3) Hart
4) Ball
5) Ingram
6) Beasley
7) KCP
8) McGee
9) Rondo
10) Stephenson |
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LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | oldlakerfan wrote: | | We do have to be realistic and change our perspective the playing time these young guys will get now that we are in a win now mode. Luke will be juggling the lineup figuring out the best combinations early in the season with your young core and vets. Svi and Wagner probably won't get much time as they are not core to our immediate performance as a team. That said I think Svi is ready to contribute now and with injuries and such he will eventually get a shot at the rotation. |
Are the Lakers in a "win now" mode in 2018-19? I definitely believe that they will be there in 2019-20. With five players on one year contracts (KCP, McGee, Stephenson, Beasley and Rondo) and Zu's contract expiring, it seems as though the Lakers are going to need BI, Kuz, Ball, Svi, Wagner, and Hart to have quite a bit of experience before the 2019-20 season starts. It will be interesting to see how Luke manages it. |
I mean, is there any reason to believe they aren't? Why wouldn't they be? |
Why? Magic and Pelika are not acting like they are in a "win now" mode.
For those of us who are "mature" enough to remember, former LA Rams coach George Allen was the expert of the "win now" philosophy. He traded draft choices and young players for the veterans that he wanted on his team. He wanted to win and he didn't want rookies and young players to screw it up. The Lakers trade for Nash and Howard were "win now" types of trades that hobbled the team years later as the front office hoped to bring a championship then. That is what a true "win now" philosophy looks like.
If the Lakers were truly in a "win now" situation, they would have traded for Kawhi last summer. The "win now" mode looks like what Cleveland did these past few years in which they have traded away valuable young talent (for example, Kyrie Irving--I bet they wish that they had that trade to do over again) looking to bring championships immediately. That is not what the Lakers are doing. To me, the Lakers are still in a "semi-development" mode that will likely transition to "win now" very soon (2019-20). |
I think you went a lil bit on a tangent there. Since this is a Svi thread, I think the "win now mode" talk was in reference to how Luke would divi up the minutes.
Does he play the veterans and try to win this year or does he play the rookies to give them minutes to develop?
I don't think anyone is arguing that the front office is in a "let's make a run at the title this year" mode. |
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Eindhoven
Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | But what more were they supposed to do? Gut the young core for a star? To say the least, it's very, very debatable that that would've put them in a better position to win this year. But my actual argument still hasn't been touched. I suppose it's possible to put a little red dot on Golden State's forehead, but not aim for a championship...somehow. |
Gutting the core for a star is what a "win now" strategy calls for. They haven't done it. They are not in a "win now" mode. They may say they are but their actions are not consistent with what they say they are doing.
I am not saying that they are making a mistake. I think they are doing the right thing. They are trying to build a multi-year contender that will win championships a few years from now. The notion that they are doing everything to win a championship this next season does not seem to be accurate. |
Why? |
A Win Now strategy means maximizing your power this year, regardless of future losses. Going All In, trading 3 future 1st for Pierce and Garnett, or a #1 pick for Kevin Love.
If Magic was in this mode he'd have traded Ingram, Kuzma and a future 1st for Kawhi. The team would be stronger this year. But, we know keeping them and signing a top FA (Kawhi, Butler, Klay,...) next year gives us a much better chance to win.
Not being on Win Now mode, doesn't mean not wanting to win at all. I think the Spurs example was perfect. They were able to balance a strong roster and not compromising their future for years. They had their focus on winning, but never went All In for it. Didn't have to.
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | But what more were they supposed to do? Gut the young core for a star? To say the least, it's very, very debatable that that would've put them in a better position to win this year. But my actual argument still hasn't been touched. I suppose it's possible to put a little red dot on Golden State's forehead, but not aim for a championship...somehow. |
Gutting the core for a star is what a "win now" strategy calls for. They haven't done it. They are not in a "win now" mode. They may say they are but their actions are not consistent with what they say they are doing.
I am not saying that they are making a mistake. I think they are doing the right thing. They are trying to build a multi-year contender that will win championships a few years from now. The notion that they are doing everything to win a championship this next season does not seem to be accurate. |
Why? |
A Win Now strategy means maximizing your power this year, regardless of future losses. Going All In, trading 3 future 1st for Pierce and Garnett, or a #1 pick for Kevin Love.
If Magic was in this mode he'd have traded Ingram, Kuzma and a future 1st for Kawhi. The team would be stronger this year. But, we know keeping them and signing a top FA (Kawhi, Butler, Klay,...) next year gives us a much better chance to win.
Not being on Win Now mode, doesn't mean not wanting to win at all. I think the Spurs example was perfect. They were able to balance a strong roster and not compromising their future for years. They had their focus on winning, but never went All In for it. Didn't have to. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Judah wrote: | | But what more were they supposed to do? Gut the young core for a star? To say the least, it's very, very debatable that that would've put them in a better position to win this year. But my actual argument still hasn't been touched. I suppose it's possible to put a little red dot on Golden State's forehead, but not aim for a championship...somehow. |
Gutting the core for a star is what a "win now" strategy calls for. They haven't done it. They are not in a "win now" mode. They may say they are but their actions are not consistent with what they say they are doing.
I am not saying that they are making a mistake. I think they are doing the right thing. They are trying to build a multi-year contender that will win championships a few years from now. The notion that they are doing everything to win a championship this next season does not seem to be accurate. |
Why? |
A Win Now strategy means maximizing your power this year, regardless of future losses. Going All In, trading 3 future 1st for Pierce and Garnett, or a #1 pick for Kevin Love.
If Magic was in this mode he'd have traded Ingram, Kuzma and a future 1st for Kawhi. The team would be stronger this year. But, we know keeping them and signing a top FA (Kawhi, Butler, Klay,...) next year gives us a much better chance to win.
Not being on Win Now mode, doesn't mean not wanting to win at all. I think the Spurs example was perfect. They were able to balance a strong roster and not compromising their future for years. They had their focus on winning, but never went All In for it. Didn't have to. |
I'm not confused on what the premise is. I understand it. I'm just pushing back on the idea that what the model looks like has to be that rigid. I don't think it does. As I've stated, constructing a team to dismantle the two-time defending champions seems synonymous with trying to win now. How is it possible to aim for Golden State's crown without winning a championship as your supreme goal? Isn't that why you would be zeroing in on beating them in the first place?
Your last paragraph about the Spurs is telling. Is it that the Spurs have "never went all in" over all these years that they've been competing for titles, or did their model of what "win now" mode looks like differ from what you're saying it's supposed to look like? That's the point. This is totally subjective.
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AFireInside619
Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| Wait, why is he called Wasabi in the thread again? I just remember people arguing over what’s real wasabi and what sushi joints to hit in LA. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40198
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, if we are arguing about playing time... I say a little Wasabi goes a long way. |
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h2omike
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2811
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Wasabi is likely to get used sparingly this year, I think if we are getting another star player next year and the one year contract guys are gone, that’s where Svi fits in. |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | Well, if we are arguing about playing time... I say a little Wasabi goes a long way. |
Very nice.
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LakerSD
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23778
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I asked Alex Caruso/Travis Wear if anything has stood out to them over the summer: “I’ve been really impressed with Svi. I think he’s going to be the steal of the Draft like Kuz was last year.” Wear added: “He’s (really good). Much better defender than I would have expected.” |
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1044335014781939712?s=21 |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Quote: | | I asked Alex Caruso/Travis Wear if anything has stood out to them over the summer: “I’ve been really impressed with Svi. I think he’s going to be the steal of the Draft like Kuz was last year.” Wear added: “He’s (really good). Much better defender than I would have expected.” |
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1044335014781939712?s=21 |
Wouldn't that be spectacular if the Lakers did it two years in a row.
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Lovefool
Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 May 2017
Posts: 275
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Where's Svi's video. I haven't found any footage on him yet. |
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