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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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 Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I think as highly of Dr. Buss as most on here....but I do not recall him being very active in acquiring FA's on the surface outside of writing the checks.....especially once Jerry West was GM. I recall Dr. Buss being involved in re-signing guys like Kobe....but that is a different process than bringing in a new guy. |
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Lakesh0wtime
Star Player
Joined: 28 Mar 2016
Posts: 5357
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Dr. Buss traded Vlade for Kobe's draft rights... not two, not three, not four, not five assets. A good but limited center who had already reached his ceiling
He traded Don Ford to draft Worthy... Don f*cking Ford!
Not two, not three, not four, not five assets... Don Ford!!!
He traded Kwame, Javaris Crittenden, Aaron McKie and picks for Pau.
Kwame averaged 6 points... Javaris averaged 3 points... Aaron McKie averaged 2 points. This is like if we traded Travis Wear... Alex Caruso... and Vander Blue plus picks for Kawhi.
When he wanted to trade Worthy and Byron for Aguirre and Roy Tarpley... West stopped him.
Common thread in all these trades... Buss hosed the other team... this wasn't let's trade away Byron/Worthy/Magic for Michael.... he always got the upper hand in these deals. I never complained for any of these trades.
We are trying to trade 2 or 3 of 16 point averaging lottery picks plus picks, for a star who only averages 16 points but is great defensively.
Completely different situation to Dr. Buss.
This is closer to the Aguirre/Roy Tarpley trade than any of the other great trades that he made. |
I mean kawhi averaged 16 this year in those 9 games but he is not a 16 ppg scorer lol. |
Look at his career averages... they are indeed 16 PPG... 6 RPG... 2 APG... 2 STL.
Is he capable of more? Definitely... Is he a better player than our youngsters... if healthy... yes. But we are not talking about Michael Jordan or Kareem like numbers... we are talking about a very efficient player who shoots better than anyone on our team... defends better than anyone in the league... but still when all is said and done... 16 and 6... the same as Kuzma... less rebounds than Randle at 16 and 8... less assists than Ingram at 16 and 4... less rebounds and assists than Lonzo who was 10/7/7.
Can Kawhi average 20 PPG... Yes... will he shoot better than our players? Yes... I love his shooting... will he play elite defense... probably if he isn't hurt... his stats say he will save 3 points per game... which doesn't sound like a lot... but it is when you look at the differences between an elite or average team. I recognize all of these qualities.
However... I also recognize that Ingram at 20 years old scored double what Kawhi did... and he didn't have a hall of fame coach teaching him... and he wasn't playing with the gravity or influence of three hall of fame vets. It doesn't take a clairvoyant to see that Ingram should improve on his 16 PPG average and be as good a scorer as Kawhi. It doesn't take one to see that Randle will be a better rebounder than Kawhi... It doesn't take one to see that Ball will be a better playmaker than him... and possibly close to as good as a defender at his position. Kuz also should be as good as scoring though I agree Kawhi is a better shooter.
Kawhi for one of these guys is fine. But two or three of them and picks? Before we see if he's healthy? When we can get him for free next season?
Sorry... I'd rather have three of our players than Kawhi at this point... and there's no guarantee he will return to his 25PPG super season... though I do think it's possible. I also think it's possible that Ingram/Kuz or Randle will average 20 PPG in the near future as well. |
Oh I’m on the same page as you haha. I wanna keep the youngins.
But kawhi did average 21 and then 25 the two years before this year.
So he is definitely a 20 plus point scorer lol.
I agree that our young guys will get there as well |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | Dr. Buss traded Vlade for Kobe's draft rights... not two, not three, not four, not five assets. A good but limited center who had already reached his ceiling
He traded Don Ford to draft Worthy... Don f*cking Ford!
Not two, not three, not four, not five assets... Don Ford!!!
He traded Kwame, Javaris Crittenden, Aaron McKie and picks for Pau.
Kwame averaged 6 points... Javaris averaged 3 points... Aaron McKie averaged 2 points. This is like if we traded Travis Wear... Alex Caruso... and Vander Blue plus picks for Kawhi.
When he wanted to trade Worthy and Byron for Aguirre and Roy Tarpley... West stopped him.
Common thread in all these trades... Buss hosed the other team... this wasn't let's trade away Byron/Worthy/Magic for Michael.... he always got the upper hand in these deals. I never complained for any of these trades.
We are trying to trade 2 or 3 of 16 point averaging lottery picks plus picks, for a star who only averages 16 points but is great defensively.
Completely different situation to Dr. Buss.
This is closer to the Aguirre/Roy Tarpley trade than any of the other great trades that he made. |
Haha my friend I sincerely admire your passion for the team an your stance, which I agree with, that the Lakers should not trade a bunch of young talent for Kawahi…although I'm not sure what that has to do with Dr. Buss going after Lebron James.  |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Beir32 wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Dr. Buss traded Vlade for Kobe's draft rights... not two, not three, not four, not five assets. A good but limited center who had already reached his ceiling
He traded Don Ford to draft Worthy... Don f*cking Ford!
Not two, not three, not four, not five assets... Don Ford!!!
He traded Kwame, Javaris Crittenden, Aaron McKie and picks for Pau.
Kwame averaged 6 points... Javaris averaged 3 points... Aaron McKie averaged 2 points. This is like if we traded Travis Wear... Alex Caruso... and Vander Blue plus picks for Kawhi.
When he wanted to trade Worthy and Byron for Aguirre and Roy Tarpley... West stopped him.
Common thread in all these trades... Buss hosed the other team... this wasn't let's trade away Byron/Worthy/Magic for Michael.... he always got the upper hand in these deals. I never complained for any of these trades.
We are trying to trade 2 or 3 of 16 point averaging lottery picks plus picks, for a star who only averages 16 points but is great defensively.
Completely different situation to Dr. Buss.
This is closer to the Aguirre/Roy Tarpley trade than any of the other great trades that he made. |
Haha my friend I sincerely admire your passion for the team an your stance, which I agree with, that the Lakers should not trade a bunch of young talent for Kawahi…although I'm not sure what that has to do with Dr. Buss going after Lebron James. |
Thanks... but my point is that there is a big difference between aggressive and foolhardy. So far I believe our front office has been aggressive within the constraints of tampering rules... but some of the ideas proposed here are in my opinion foolhardy. I pointed out some key trades to illustrate that Dr. Buss and his people were aggressive but not dumb. |
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MickMgl
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:21 am Post subject: Re: How aggressive do you guys think Dr.Buss would have been in the LeBron pursuit |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | If he was alive, would have he been aggressive in sealing the deal to bring him to LA?
I gotta think he would have been determined just like Rob and Magic are. |
He would have been as aggressive as Jerry West told him to be. |
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ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: |
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| Shaq was 31 when he was traded. So who knows. |
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JohnDoe
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Jun 2018
Posts: 128
Location: Shenzhen, China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: |
Yeah, I do think he would have loved the young core though. |
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KingGioV21
Sixth Man
Joined: 21 Jun 2018
Posts: 66
Location: Southern Highlands Las Vegas via Inglewood
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| Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | Lakesh0wtime wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Dr. Buss traded Vlade for Kobe's draft rights... not two, not three, not four, not five assets. A good but limited center who had already reached his ceiling
He traded Don Ford to draft Worthy... Don f*cking Ford!
Not two, not three, not four, not five assets... Don Ford!!!
He traded Kwame, Javaris Crittenden, Aaron McKie and picks for Pau.
Kwame averaged 6 points... Javaris averaged 3 points... Aaron McKie averaged 2 points. This is like if we traded Travis Wear... Alex Caruso... and Vander Blue plus picks for Kawhi.
When he wanted to trade Worthy and Byron for Aguirre and Roy Tarpley... West stopped him.
Common thread in all these trades... Buss hosed the other team... this wasn't let's trade away Byron/Worthy/Magic for Michael.... he always got the upper hand in these deals. I never complained for any of these trades.
We are trying to trade 2 or 3 of 16 point averaging lottery picks plus picks, for a star who only averages 16 points but is great defensively.
Completely different situation to Dr. Buss.
This is closer to the Aguirre/Roy Tarpley trade than any of the other great trades that he made. |
I mean kawhi averaged 16 this year in those 9 games but he is not a 16 ppg scorer lol. |
Look at his career averages... they are indeed 16 PPG... 6 RPG... 2 APG... 2 STL.
Is he capable of more? Definitely... Is he a better player than our youngsters... if healthy... yes. But we are not talking about Michael Jordan or Kareem like numbers... we are talking about a very efficient player who shoots better than anyone on our team... defends better than anyone in the league... but still when all is said and done... 16 and 6... the same as Kuzma... less rebounds than Randle at 16 and 8... less assists than Ingram at 16 and 4... less rebounds and assists than Lonzo who was 10/7/7.
Can Kawhi average 20 PPG... Yes... will he shoot better than our players? Yes... I love his shooting... will he play elite defense... probably if he isn't hurt... his stats say he will save 3 points per game... which doesn't sound like a lot... but it is when you look at the differences between an elite or average team. I recognize all of these qualities.
However... I also recognize that Ingram at 20 years old scored double what Kawhi did... and he didn't have a hall of fame coach teaching him... and he wasn't playing with the gravity or influence of three hall of fame vets. It doesn't take a clairvoyant to see that Ingram should improve on his 16 PPG average and be as good a scorer as Kawhi. It doesn't take one to see that Randle will be a better rebounder than Kawhi... It doesn't take one to see that Ball will be a better playmaker than him... and possibly close to as good as a defender at his position. Kuz also should be as good as scoring though I agree Kawhi is a better shooter.
Kawhi for one of these guys is fine. But two or three of them and picks? Before we see if he's healthy? When we can get him for free next season?
Sorry... I'd rather have three of our players than Kawhi at this point... and there's no guarantee he will return to his 25PPG super season... though I do think it's possible. I also think it's possible that Ingram/Kuz or Randle will average 20 PPG in the near future as well. |
You gotta be kidding me. You are basing his 16ppg avg off of the seasons when he was 3rd fiddle to a healthy TP and Duncan that was older but still the main focus. When Kawhi was clearly top priority his avg 21 and 25. Then he was hurt this past year and avg 16. Come on... don’t skew reality to fit your narrative. |
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