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Hero Ball
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Joined: 26 May 2015
Posts: 4403
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| El Seano wrote: | I was actually pleasantly surprised to see Rondo has been hitting the 3 fairly consistently the last 3 seasons. He's got something like 160 makes at a 36% clip. Not world beating or nothing but very respectable.
Also yeah don't sleep on Svi, that kid can shoot it. His form is beautiful.
I think management (reasonably) expect a jump in percentage from the kids. I don't think Lonzo shoots 30% next year I think he makes a huge jump year 1 to year 2...which is scary.
Plus you need to consider that the kids have never played with a player with the level of gravity LeBron dictates. They're be shooting far more open shots than they did last year. There's gonna be a lot more lobs too.
I think they're trying something different than the age old "surround LeBron with 4 dudes who can shoot it.
I also don't think they're done with this roster yet. |
This.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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Joined: 29 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Lonzo, our worst shooter, also took way too many. He took nearly three times as many threes as Ingram in 9 fewer games. |
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AirKobe8
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:06 am Post subject: |
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Forget about 3 point shooting. Minnesota was last in the NBA in 3s attempted and made, and were still the 4th best offense in the league. If they didn't have such a terrible defense and had Butler for 75+ games, they'd be at least top4 in the west.
I'm not saying 3 point shooter aren't necessary, just that we need to look beyond and have different things going on. We have a very talented roster with so many qualities, we don't need to follow the GSW/Houston blueprint (specially when GSW went midrange and iso a lot with Durant in the playoffs).
What we need is solid D and passing, and that I think we'll have. The rest will take care of itself.
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LAL4K3RS
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Joined: 13 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Early last year we had some huge 3 point shooting games. It was very encouraging. I think we will see some improvement in our 3 point shooting over last year collectively and with LBJ, this team will have the widest looking 3's in the game if he is aggressive and moving to the hoop. If they can knock down wide open shots we are good to go.
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This Laker Organization has not yet hit bottom. It is moving there quickly, and I suspect this year we will see zero talent coming to the Lakers and we will trade away Kuz and BI for old vets in the hopes of giving LeBronze some scapegoats. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Ingram and Ball improving their outside shooting is so crucial. Ball took tons of threes and hit at a terrible rate while BI barely took any at all. Both have to improve a LOT from distance. Kuz and KCP should be pretty reliable from three, especially with Lebron drawing so much attention from the defense.
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Vanquish
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | Lonzo, our worst shooter, also took way too many. He took nearly three times as many threes as Ingram in 9 fewer games. |
Great insight, explains why our 3 pointers % as a team was way down even though we largely had decent shooters. |
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Lakerpark
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Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 2117
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Three point shooting - am I missing something? |
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| Vanquish wrote: | First i do know last year we were supposingly the worst 3 point shooting team at one point in the season. So, there's a lot of concern, that Lebron won't have shooters to space the floor given our recent free agent signings.
However I was looking over the 3 point % from last year of our potential starters + key reserves and to my suprise our outside shooting seems far from dire. This is what I saw
Josh Hart 39.6%
KCP 38.3%
Ingram 39%
Ball 30.5%
Kuzma 36.3%
Am I missing something, because all the numbers look fairly respectable with the exception of Ball. I also expect the percentages of our starters to go up as they will now have wide open looks courtesy of Lebron. From the numbers, it seems like Lebron would have more than adequate help when he kicks it to he outside.
Is it really that essential that we had look for a shooter instead of signing someone like Rondo for example? Or is the shooter concern an example of making a mountain out of a molehill? |
Where's Brook Lopez fall among those stats? Seems like he took a lot of 3s last season.
And what about Clarkson? what were his numbers? He was a pretty big gunner too.
I hope SVI gets a lot of playing time and a lot of shooting opportunities.
Last edited by Lakerpark on Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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cthroatgtr
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Joined: 21 Aug 2005
Posts: 1375
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| Ball yanked down the percentage plus Ingram didn't shoot a lot. Lebron will help as will Lonzo either shooting better or not taking so many 3pt shots. Team was far better in the second half and started winning as a result. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: |
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| I am way more concerned with post defense and rebounding. |
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Vanquish
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Three point shooting - am I missing something? |
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| Lakerpark wrote: |
Where's Brook Lopez fall among those stats? Seems like he took a lot of 3s last season.
And what about Clarkson? what were his numbers? He was a pretty big gunner too.
I hope SVI gets a lot of playing time and a lot of shooting opportunities.
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I didn't include both Brook and Clarkson because they're unlikely to be on the team this season. Clarkson is under contract with Cavs and it doesn't look like Brook is coming back.
The point I was making was of the common belief that the lakers needed to add a ton of free agent shooters for Lebron. It seems to me that the players we already have are more than sufficient to - at least - space the floor for Lebron, outside of Lonzo Ball.
If anything, we just have to get Lonzo to reduce his 3 point attempts this season. |
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Bishop*
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | You took only the top shooters of the team, except for Lonzo. Our average was 34.5% from 3pt, just ahead of Phoenix (33.4%). To be in the middle of the pack, we need 36% and only 6 out of 24 players in the Lakers had that % last year; only 4 if you make a 20+mpg cut: Hart, BI, KCP and Kuz (barely). |
I am sure Brook Lopez will come back.
When we want LeBron to drive to the basket and get the points we need a solid defensive team around him to preserve the points and shooters around him to knock down 3s.
I will go
J Hart
KCP
Lebron
Kuz
Lopez
Solid perimeter D and good Interior D who are all average 3 point shooters. |
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FreakofNature
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 9187
Location: Maui ...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Three point shooting - am I missing something? |
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| Hero Ball wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | First i do know last year we were supposingly the worst 3 point shooting team at one point in the season. So, there's a lot of concern, that Lebron won't have shooters to space the floor given our recent free agent signings.
However I was looking over the 3 point % from last year of our potential starters + key reserves and to my suprise our outside shooting seems far from dire. This is what I saw
Josh Hart 39.6%
KCP 38.3%
Ingram 39%
Ball 30.5%
Kuzma 36.3%
Am I missing something, because all the numbers look fairly respectable with the exception of Ball. I also expect the percentages of our starters to go up as they will now have wide open looks courtesy of Lebron. From the numbers, it seems like Lebron would have more than adequate help when he kicks it to he outside.
Is it really that essential that we had look for a shooter instead of signing someone like Rondo for example? Or is the shooter concern an example of making a mountain out of a molehill? |
We added SVI and Mo in the draft, plus we got Lance and Rondo in free agency and although they are poor 3 point shooters they have a penchant of making them in clutch situations. Rondo and Lance will let them fly when provoked. |
Rondo shot 33.3% from 3 last year. 42% in 5 games against the Warriors in the playoffs. With Rondo you get experience and grit, boards great for a little guy. And adds depth, a great back up to Ball IMO, and I can see him play alongside Ball from time to time.....
Last edited by FreakofNature on Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Vanquish
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Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1561
Location: London
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Actually I checked up on Clarkson and here's an interesting Stat
On the Lakers,
3PM - A. 3%
68 - 210. .324
On the Cavs, after the trade
3PM -A. 3%
44 -108. .407
Clarkson's 3 point % improved dramatically after playing with Lebron. Doesn't seem like there was a dramatic change in his attempts per game as well. I know this is probably common knowledge, but actually seeing the change in percentages is kind of jarring nonetheless.
Given this, our young guys may be all that is needed for 3 pointers. Getting free agent gunners may not be that urgent after all. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I too think the shooting woes, or lack thereof, is a bit overrated. Yes, we shot 34.5% as a team (it's not Ennis' fault, he shot 50 of them only) and that's good for second last.
But what's the difference between us and first? 4.6% percentage points. Difference between us and middle of the pack? 1.7% percentage points.
If there is a problem I think it's more in the fact that we're not a team that is good enough, still, to go absolutely bananas from 3 like the Ws and Rs can.
Also, we don't have at least that one elite guy who really forces defenses not to want to cheat off. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| Vanquish wrote: | Actually I checked up on Clarkson and here's an interesting Stat
On the Lakers,
3PM - A. 3%
68 - 210. .324
On the Cavs, after the trade
3PM -A. 3%
44 -108. .407
Clarkson's 3 point % improved dramatically after playing with Lebron. Doesn't seem like there was a dramatic change in his attempts per game as well. I know this is probably common knowledge, but actually seeing the change in percentages is kind of jarring nonetheless.
Given this, our young guys may be all that is needed for 3 pointers. Getting free agent gunners may not be that urgent after all. |
If you include the playoffs he went 55-154 (35.7%), more or less in line with his career average. Hard to say if 40.7% is more accurate than 35.7% |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Also, we don't have at least that one elite guy who really forces defenses not to want to cheat off. |
Exactly.
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: |
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This is where we need a stat that indicates true spacing and overran closeouts vs proper close outs to defend the drive or the shot.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Also, we don't have at least that one elite guy who really forces defenses not to want to cheat off. |
Exactly. |
LeBron would seem the Laker most likely to punish a team who cheats off him, no ? And punish, yes he does. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Vanquish wrote: | Actually I checked up on Clarkson and here's an interesting Stat
On the Lakers,
3PM - A. 3%
68 - 210. .324
On the Cavs, after the trade
3PM -A. 3%
44 -108. .407
Clarkson's 3 point % improved dramatically after playing with Lebron. Doesn't seem like there was a dramatic change in his attempts per game as well. I know this is probably common knowledge, but actually seeing the change in percentages is kind of jarring nonetheless.
Given this, our young guys may be all that is needed for 3 pointers. Getting free agent gunners may not be that urgent after all. |
If you include the playoffs he went 55-154 (35.7%), more or less in line with his career average. Hard to say if 40.7% is more accurate than 35.7% |
Most players see a decrease in efficiency in the playoffs--tougher defenses, more games for coaches to prepare against them and adjust, etc. His 3% in the playoffs was an abysmal 23%. So I think it was just better defense.
It is probably safe to say the increase in Cleveland in the regular season was a legitimate Lebron effect (just getting better looks). |
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nickuku
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Posts: 7844
Location: Orange County
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Remember we started off terrrrrrible from 3.
Pre All-Star
FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPSAFG%
40.9 89.3 .459 9.2 27.7 .333 16.1 23.2 .696 31.7 61.6 .515 1.20 0.51
Post All-Star
FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPSAFG%
40.2 86.3 .465 11.8 32.2 .368 17.8 23.5 .755 28.3 54.2 .523 1.27 0.53
Those are remarkable improvements to be made in season
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leor_77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Basically, we have to pray that guys with actual potential to shoot (i.e. Kuz, BI, KCP, Zo, Hart, etc.) improve their shot with the added experience, as well as having Lebron. Also, besides last season, Rondo has steadily improved his 3-point shot (two years ago, it was 37.6%). |
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LakerSanity
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Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:14 am Post subject: |
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If we re-signed Brook and signed someone like Ellington, that'd be good enough for me.
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LakerSanity
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Location: Long Beach, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | Remember we started off terrrrrrible from 3.
Pre All-Star
FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPSAFG%
40.9 89.3 .459 9.2 27.7 .333 16.1 23.2 .696 31.7 61.6 .515 1.20 0.51
Post All-Star
FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% 2PM 2PA 2P% PPSAFG%
40.2 86.3 .465 11.8 32.2 .368 17.8 23.5 .755 28.3 54.2 .523 1.27 0.53
Those are remarkable improvements to be made in season |
Spot on. Here are the post all-star break shooting #s, which should all give us some hope -
Kuzma: 38.5%
Ingram: 46.2%
Brook: 36.7%
Hart: 39.3%
KCP: 42.3%
Zo: 31.0%
The only player who didn't really step up his 3pt shooting was Zo. We have good shooters on this team, especially when you consider both Ingram and Zo should be even better next year from 3.
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LuciusAllen
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Posts: 5787
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:54 am Post subject: |
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The acquisitions so far - as well as being a nice variety of tradeable contracts - reflect exactly what Magic and Lebron talked about, apparently:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24003187/lakers-signings-part-magic-plan-nba
They both seem to believe that just surrounding Lebron with shooters forces Lebron to be too much of a focal point:
| Quote: | The Cavs were a team of specialists -- many of them shooters -- who were placed around the league's ultimate Swiss Army knife. But at times, especially during the playoffs, it did have the feel that James was playing 1-on-5 and needing to play 48 minutes because he was the team's only true creator and playmaker.
Cleveland also prioritized shooters and offense-minded players ahead of defenders and steadily sunk in the defensive rankings over the past three seasons, bottoming out as the No. 29 defensive efficiency team last season. This became a liability at times, particularly against the juggernaut Warriors.
What Johnson pitched to James was a team stocked with tough-minded playmakers like Stephenson and Rondo who could free up James to finish in the lanes and from the post, rather than having to create the lion's share of the offense himself...
"I know some people are rolling their eyes, but I like what the Lakers have done," a rival Western Conference executive said. "You can find shooters. They've taken some in the last few drafts. Playmakers matter and are harder to find." |
| Quote: | James' play in the post has ebbed and flowed over the past decade. He has developed his skills playing there, but has always been pulled to operating from the perimeter, where he's more comfortable and where his teams often need him...
Playing more like Bryant and Jordan will take time and patience, and James told Johnson that some habits will be hard to break, sources said. But James knows playing more inside and yielding some control of the ball is important as he ages and his athleticism starts to fade. At 6-foot-8, 260 pounds with great vision and passing skills, he may be better equipped for success than the smaller Jordan and Bryant. |
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The Juggernaut
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| LakerSanity wrote: | | If we re-signed Brook and signed someone like Ellington, that'd be good enough for me. |
Those 2 would be great signings for us at this point. |
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