3pt Shooting - Do We have Enough???
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epak
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:24 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
epak wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
Lonzo is the wild card. I do think we could use another proven shooter coming off screens. Right now, KCP is pretty much it, and his %tile is basically average.

Damn, can't believe I'm talking myself into Melo.


That’s not melo’s game. That was the problem for him in OKC last year. He wants ISO touches and didn’t perform well coming off screen or hitting corner 3’s. Plus Melo wants to start and you can’t sit LeBron, Ingram, KCP, Lonzo or even McGee for him.


Yep. He was not great in catch and shoot last year. Which surprised me. It's like he needs to dribble to get rhythm.


37% on catch and shoot threes, and 90th %tile off screens. He doesn't do it enough, maybe that's where Coach Lebron would get through to him.


59%ile on spot ups. I wonder what the league average on catch and shoot 3s are.

90%ile off screens is nuts lol. 2.6% freq I think he would get too tired if he did it more than that.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject:

melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.


His shooting was not that good. Who else did we lose?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:52 pm    Post subject:

If we are desperate for anyone who can shoot right then that's not melo
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject:

Why do we need shooters? We need players that can finish layups and free throws. We missed like 15-20 free throws a game!!!!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:20 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.

I don't think the team needs another iso player, especially one that'll eat into BI and Kuz’s minutes while also being a defensive liability. You're right that the team doesn't have enough shooters, but Wayne Ellington or even Swaggy P are more natural choices than Melo ever could be. It's downright criminal that Ellington set a record last year for most threes in a season for a reserve, yet he's still a free agent.

I still don't understand how the Lakers could manage to get LeBron James and rush to sign Lance Stephenson (who shot 29% from three, which is even worse than Rondo and Zo) instead of a deadly shooter like Ellington. If it was his lack of size, okay, at least bring Nick Young back. I find it hard to believe that he would turn down an opportunity to come back here. The Lakers are contenders now and he'd have a bigger role here than what he had in GS last year. I still don't get prioritizing Stephenson over a shooter. If the team struggles to shoot again (and they're pretty much a lock to do even worse) the FO will pitifully regret the Stephenson signing.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject:

kobe8One wrote:
Why do we need shooters? We need players that can finish layups and free throws. We missed like 15-20 free throws a game!!!!

Because LeBron will naturally draw doubles. It'll be easy for the defense to get away with doubling him if he isn't sharing the floor with range shooters.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:15 am    Post subject:

Let's get Ellington already....and never play Lance
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:26 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.

I don't think the team needs another iso player, especially one that'll eat into BI and Kuz’s minutes while also being a defensive liability. You're right that the team doesn't have enough shooters, but Wayne Ellington or even Swaggy P are more natural choices than Melo ever could be. It's downright criminal that Ellington set a record last year for most threes in a season for a reserve, yet he's still a free agent.

I still don't understand how the Lakers could manage to get LeBron James and rush to sign Lance Stephenson (who shot 29% from three, which is even worse than Rondo and Zo) instead of a deadly shooter like Ellington. If it was his lack of size, okay, at least bring Nick Young back. I find it hard to believe that he would turn down an opportunity to come back here. The Lakers are contenders now and he'd have a bigger role here than what he had in GS last year. I still don't get prioritizing Stephenson over a shooter. If the team struggles to shoot again (and they're pretty much a lock to do even worse) the FO will pitifully regret the Stephenson signing.

yea, it doesn't matter who, but get them. relying on kuz and hart to have a breakout year and become our ray allen is a PIPE DREAM. We have 4 years with this guy and he needs shooters. go ahead and develop these guys, but we need a korver or something that is ready to go, game 1, and will knock down open threes and free throws. bring back swaggy, hell yea! anyone...or three.

if we trot out the team as is, it's going to be an impressive brick fest. the most expensive, biggest names brickfest we've ever seen.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject:

kobe8One wrote:
Why do we need shooters? We need players that can finish layups and free throws. We missed like 15-20 free throws a game!!!!



For the season, we averaged 23.3 free throw attempts per game and made 16.6 per game. So we missed 6.7 per game. We were the worse FT shooting team, though (as well as the second to worst 3-point shooting team). So both areas are problems for us.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject:

2-way players.

Everyone on our roster plays both ways and with energy.

Defense to offense seems to be our game plan. Everyone can handle in transition, create shots for themselves and others, rebound.

I think lebron is replacing randles role as the small ball 5
He’s a Draymond Green on steroids.

We are going to play physical defense, get in transition and run you into the ground. When we get into the half court we have Luke’s offense and when that isn’t enough we have lebron as a trump card in the half court.

I think we can make a real push this season to win it all
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

We could do worse than Frye at this point I guess
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:07 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Judah wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.

I don't think the team needs another iso player, especially one that'll eat into BI and Kuz’s minutes while also being a defensive liability. You're right that the team doesn't have enough shooters, but Wayne Ellington or even Swaggy P are more natural choices than Melo ever could be. It's downright criminal that Ellington set a record last year for most threes in a season for a reserve, yet he's still a free agent.

I still don't understand how the Lakers could manage to get LeBron James and rush to sign Lance Stephenson (who shot 29% from three, which is even worse than Rondo and Zo) instead of a deadly shooter like Ellington. If it was his lack of size, okay, at least bring Nick Young back. I find it hard to believe that he would turn down an opportunity to come back here. The Lakers are contenders now and he'd have a bigger role here than what he had in GS last year. I still don't get prioritizing Stephenson over a shooter. If the team struggles to shoot again (and they're pretty much a lock to do even worse) the FO will pitifully regret the Stephenson signing.

yea, it doesn't matter who, but get them. relying on kuz and hart to have a breakout year and become our ray allen is a PIPE DREAM. We have 4 years with this guy and he needs shooters. go ahead and develop these guys, but we need a korver or something that is ready to go, game 1, and will knock down open threes and free throws. bring back swaggy, hell yea! anyone...or three.

if we trot out the team as is, it's going to be an impressive brick fest. the most expensive, biggest names brickfest we've ever seen.


Would rather have Hart and Kuzma. Players who can create and are better on the defensive end.

How many minutes do you think Lance is going to get?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

We ain’t desperate for sht. If we need to add someone right before camp... I’m talking desperation on the cheap... just swoop up Richard Jefferson right down the street... he’s played with the King before.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Judah wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
melo would be a much better fit here. we are desparate for anyone who can shoot right now. We have lost literally all of our best shooters over the years and we just lost lopez, and while that isn't a big deal, he was the last good shooter we had left. kuz and hart are not proven yet.

I don't think the team needs another iso player, especially one that'll eat into BI and Kuz’s minutes while also being a defensive liability. You're right that the team doesn't have enough shooters, but Wayne Ellington or even Swaggy P are more natural choices than Melo ever could be. It's downright criminal that Ellington set a record last year for most threes in a season for a reserve, yet he's still a free agent.

I still don't understand how the Lakers could manage to get LeBron James and rush to sign Lance Stephenson (who shot 29% from three, which is even worse than Rondo and Zo) instead of a deadly shooter like Ellington. If it was his lack of size, okay, at least bring Nick Young back. I find it hard to believe that he would turn down an opportunity to come back here. The Lakers are contenders now and he'd have a bigger role here than what he had in GS last year. I still don't get prioritizing Stephenson over a shooter. If the team struggles to shoot again (and they're pretty much a lock to do even worse) the FO will pitifully regret the Stephenson signing.

yea, it doesn't matter who, but get them. relying on kuz and hart to have a breakout year and become our ray allen is a PIPE DREAM. We have 4 years with this guy and he needs shooters. go ahead and develop these guys, but we need a korver or something that is ready to go, game 1, and will knock down open threes and free throws. bring back swaggy, hell yea! anyone...or three.

if we trot out the team as is, it's going to be an impressive brick fest. the most expensive, biggest names brickfest we've ever seen.


Would rather have Hart and Kuzma. Players who can create and are better on the defensive end.

How many minutes do you think Lance is going to get?

i see our fans constantly overvaluing defense and stuff, basically anything other than shooting. Like defense is such a noble thing. screw that, we need offense bad. If we're not the worst shooting team in the league currently, we must be close.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

Someone tell me why we still "desperately" need shooters with:

KCP
Hart
Kuz
Svi
Wagner
BI will probably be better
Even Rondo has averaged 35.7% from 3 the last FOUR seasons and 42.1% during the the last playoffs.

We are gonna be way better from 3 than last year, and with Randle gone, that means more shots going to Kuz, Lebron, and even Wagner, all of whom will space the floor better than Randle.

All Melo will do is take a massive amount of shots away from our young guys, stunting their development and reducing their value to the team.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

I think that the idea is that we don't really have any truly deadly shooters, i.e. guys that teams absolutely have to have a defender glued on at all times. We do have plenty of guys that are capable of making 3s at a reasonable clip, however.

So things could definitely be worse; having a deadly shooter or two would really help our team a lot though.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

Hellspawn wrote:
Someone tell me why we still "desperately" need shooters with:

KCP
Hart
Kuz
Svi
Wagner
BI will probably be better
Even Rondo has averaged 35.7% from 3 the last FOUR seasons and 42.1% during the the last playoffs.

We are gonna be way better from 3 than last year, and with Randle gone, that means more shots going to Kuz, Lebron, and even Wagner, all of whom will space the floor better than Randle.

All Melo will do is take a massive amount of shots away from our young guys, stunting their development and reducing their value to the team.

everyone is potential, nobody is proven.
Kuz is ok. He had a good streak for several games, but no indication that he is an amazing shooter.
Hart, same basically.
Svi, we know nothing yet.
Wagner, ditto.
BI is basically a decent shooter, but his length and slashing are way more polished and valuable.
ROndo is not a reliable shooter.

It ain't about percentages. You can have a decent percentage without being relied upon for shooting. We don't have a primary, reliable shooter. It's a really bad place to be. While we overvalue defense, heart, hustle, and all those things...meanwhile, warriors are racking up the best shooters. and guess what, surprise! when you are loaded with shooters, all of a suddent they start playing great defense.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:03 pm    Post subject:

We’re not trying to beat the warriors at their own game, we’re trying to lock them tf up and get out and run. That’s when showtime happens.

Defenders that can hit a shot are more important than one way sharp shooters imo.

We wanna switch everything and blow up thier offense.

Everyone can rebound and start the break. We’re about to be fun to watch and tough to stop
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Hellspawn wrote:
Someone tell me why we still "desperately" need shooters with:

KCP
Hart
Kuz
Svi
Wagner
BI will probably be better
Even Rondo has averaged 35.7% from 3 the last FOUR seasons and 42.1% during the the last playoffs.

We are gonna be way better from 3 than last year, and with Randle gone, that means more shots going to Kuz, Lebron, and even Wagner, all of whom will space the floor better than Randle.

All Melo will do is take a massive amount of shots away from our young guys, stunting their development and reducing their value to the team.

Amen dude! Lots of lazy analysis around here the last few weeks focusing way too much on Stephenson aka “The Cheerleader”/11th Man.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:18 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Someone tell me why we still "desperately" need shooters with:

KCP
Hart
Kuz
Svi
Wagner
BI will probably be better
Even Rondo has averaged 35.7% from 3 the last FOUR seasons and 42.1% during the the last playoffs.

We are gonna be way better from 3 than last year, and with Randle gone, that means more shots going to Kuz, Lebron, and even Wagner, all of whom will space the floor better than Randle.

All Melo will do is take a massive amount of shots away from our young guys, stunting their development and reducing their value to the team.

everyone is potential, nobody is proven.
Kuz is ok. He had a good streak for several games, but no indication that he is an amazing shooter.
Hart, same basically.
Svi, we know nothing yet.
Wagner, ditto.
BI is basically a decent shooter, but his length and slashing are way more polished and valuable.
ROndo is not a reliable shooter.

It ain't about percentages. You can have a decent percentage without being relied upon for shooting. We don't have a primary, reliable shooter. It's a really bad place to be. While we overvalue defense, heart, hustle, and all those things...meanwhile, warriors are racking up the best shooters. and guess what, surprise! when you are loaded with shooters, all of a suddent they start playing great defense.

Some people have to see someone shooting 40% from three before they can believe that a player can do it, others can see it, because of empirical evidence, before it happens — basically two dimensional thinkers versus three dimensional thinkers.

My evidence: I’ve seen enough of Hart in college and last year to know that he’s definitely a shooter if there ever was one. Same with Pope and Mykhailiuk. Kuzma, I never saw in college, but if he didn’t convince you that he’s a legit NBA shooter last year, then you’re just being a contrarian for contrarian sake. Rondo isn’t your granddaddy’s Rondo. He’s a solid spot up shooter these days.

You have a point with Ingram and Wagner. They have the highest probability of really struggling, but I think even that’s a longshot, especially for Ingram.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
Hellspawn wrote:
Someone tell me why we still "desperately" need shooters with:

KCP
Hart
Kuz
Svi
Wagner
BI will probably be better
Even Rondo has averaged 35.7% from 3 the last FOUR seasons and 42.1% during the the last playoffs.

We are gonna be way better from 3 than last year, and with Randle gone, that means more shots going to Kuz, Lebron, and even Wagner, all of whom will space the floor better than Randle.

All Melo will do is take a massive amount of shots away from our young guys, stunting their development and reducing their value to the team.

everyone is potential, nobody is proven.
Kuz is ok. He had a good streak for several games, but no indication that he is an amazing shooter.
Hart, same basically.
Svi, we know nothing yet.
Wagner, ditto.
BI is basically a decent shooter, but his length and slashing are way more polished and valuable.
ROndo is not a reliable shooter.

It ain't about percentages. You can have a decent percentage without being relied upon for shooting. We don't have a primary, reliable shooter. It's a really bad place to be. While we overvalue defense, heart, hustle, and all those things...meanwhile, warriors are racking up the best shooters. and guess what, surprise! when you are loaded with shooters, all of a suddent they start playing great defense.

Some people have to see someone shooting 40% from three before they can believe that a player can do it, others can see it, because of empirical evidence, before it happens — basically two dimensional thinkers versus three dimensional thinkers.

My evidence: I’ve seen enough of Hart in college and last year to know that he’s definitely a shooter if there ever was one. Same with Pope and Mykhailiuk. Kuzma, I never saw in college, but if he didn’t convince you that he’s a legit NBA shooter last year, then you’re just being a contrarian for contrarian sake. Rondo isn’t your granddaddy’s Rondo. He’s a solid spot up shooter these days.

You have a point with Ingram and Wagner. They have the highest probability of really struggling, but I think even that’s a longshot, especially for Ingram.

ok i see that i missed KCP. Sorry, yes...KCP is a legit threat. He's proven it. College doesn't matter. We've seen tons of players over the years do great in college and suck in the NBA. TO be proven in the NBA, you have to do it for a couple of years. That's why Kuz and Hart aren't there yet. Let's see you do it when people expect it. Big difference. I'm not saying they're not the ones. They may very well be our designated sharpshooters, but I'm not convinced yet, and the clock is ticking. We have only 4 years with lbj to rack up rings (2 minimum to pass the celtics). And the warriors are in the way.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: The national media is seriously underrating the shooting of this team

Kuzma, Hart, KCP, Svi, and Wagner can all shoot well on high volume. Lebron can shoot extremely well on middling volume, and I expect BI's volume to tick up a bit with similar efficiency while Lonzo's volume goes down a bit with slightly better efficiency. With that many playmakers and the transition demons that are Lebron + this run and gun Lakers, this team is going to drain a lot of open 3's.

Lance is the one wildcard, but I frankly don't see him on the team going into the playoffs. But even if he is, it's really a broadstroke reductionist mindset to build a team full of shooters because of the Rockets and Warriors. The premium here is versatility and malleability, which this team has in bunches. People don't realize that outside of Steph, KD, and Klay (maybe the 3 best to ever shoot it) GS is full of blatant non-shooters.

tl;dr I'm very excited about this team, which still has a move or two up its sleeve. The national media, headed mostly by Windhorst, was decrying the McGee + Lance + Rondo moves. Because they came consecutively, they overshadowed the shooting potential this team has.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject:

Our best shooting line is:

Hart
KCP
BI
Kuz
LBJ

That line-up can keep up with any shooting team in the league
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
Our best shooting line is:

Hart
KCP
BI
Kuz
LBJ

That line-up can keep up with any shooting team in the league


as well as defensively their defense versatility...

I see Luke going to that lineup a lot
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