3pt Shooting - Do We have Enough???
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AZLaker3
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:38 am    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
lakez34 wrote:
We're a bad shooting team unless Kuz, Ingram and Lonzo all purely practiced 3s all summer. We need shooters badly, needed them last year and more so this year with LeBron.


3 point shooting last season:

Ingram: 39%
Kuzma: 36.6%

for that matter:
Hart: 39.6%
KCP: 38.3%

We have shooters.

Really, it's Lonzo that only shot 30.5% from 3 last year on high volume, and brought the average down.


Rob made a good point in todays presser.
He said the league average for the elite "3Pt specialist" are between 38-42%, and our current constructed roster doesnt seem too bad in that department.

I think out 3P% becomes an addition by subtraction situation.

Additions
SviMy 44.4% @ Kansas / 39.1% in Summer League
James 36.7%
Rondo 33.3%
Lance S 28.9%
Average: 34.5%


Subtractions (players who played over 40 games with us)
BroLo 34.5%
JC 32.4% in 53 games
Randle 22.2%
Nance Jr 12.5 % in 42 games
TEnnis 25.0 % in 54 games
Brewer 18.6% in 54 games
Average: 24.6%

Returning
Hart 39.6%
Ingram 39%
KCP 38.3%
Kuzma 36.6%
Lonzo 30.5%
Average: 36.8%

So, not counting the improvements players will make, we could be around 12-20th, middle of the pack as a team, which is a big improvement from 29th overall last year.


This x2029472910.

Idk why people think the 3point shooting this year will be that bad. The statistics is far overblown. We are right at the average by just trimming the fat from players of last season.

But no one will look at that. They'll see the Lakers are the 2nd worse shooting 3 point shooting team in the league, and that Lonzo has a horrific first 2 months. That's the narrative they will continue to build off. No one in the media even knows who Josh Hart is.

I'm confident in our percentage going up. We have arguably 3 of the best 5 passers in the league on our team. One of them will be on the floor at all times. We will get open shots. A LOT more than last year.
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AZLaker3
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:41 am    Post subject:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

I truly believe that with the arrival of LeBron, all our players are taking 1000 3pt shots a day....AS I TYPE THIS!

Open look 3's are a lot different than contested 3's. We'll be ready.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


yep - there are no 3 point specialists on our current roster
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject:

Tick wrote:
I truly believe that with the arrival of LeBron, all our players are taking 1000 3pt shots a day....AS I TYPE THIS!

Open look 3's are a lot different than contested 3's. We'll be ready.

they better be! i'm a little more cynical, i fear they are not practicing threes obsessively enough....or free throws! they better not be working on making their muscles bigger or other such useless things!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
Tick wrote:
I truly believe that with the arrival of LeBron, all our players are taking 1000 3pt shots a day....AS I TYPE THIS!

Open look 3's are a lot different than contested 3's. We'll be ready.

they better be! i'm a little more cynical, i fear they are not practicing threes obsessively enough....or free throws! they better not be working on making their muscles bigger or other such useless things!

I hope the FO and Luke sent out a memo letting the team know their playing time will be heavily influenced on how well they hit their open shots and to come to camp ready to impress.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.


Funny thing is George Hill's % dropped from Sac (45%) to Clev (35%) on the same about of shots (3 3PA). That's nuts.

JC's went from 32% to 40% (LA to Cavs) on the same 4 3PA.

Hood went from 38% to 35% (Utah to Cavs), while attempting less 6.7 3PA in Utah to only 3.4 in Cavs)
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.


Funny thing is George Hill's % dropped from Sac (45%) to Clev (35%) on the same about of shots (3 3PA). That's nuts.

JC's went from 32% to 40% (LA to Cavs) on the same 4 3PA.

Hood went from 38% to 35% (Utah to Cavs), while attempting less 6.7 3PA in Utah to only 3.4 in Cavs)


what can I say Fox effect >>> Lebron effect
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 pm    Post subject:

I miss SwaggyP
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.

the percentage doesn't really matter. 2% means nothing. love is probably required to do more things, in addition to taking more contested shots.
I'd compare free throw percentage over 3pt percentage. If I'm Maginka, I say gimme as many good free throw shooters, as tall as possible, as you can handle. forget the 3. look at the warriors roster. over half the roster shoots ft above 80. on ours...i dont think a single person shoots above 80. THAT IS A CAUSE FOR MAJOR CONCERN.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:47 pm    Post subject:

My answer to OP’s question is Yes & No? We’ll see I guess.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
My answer to OP’s question is Yes & No? We’ll see I guess.

we do not, most likely, if the intent behind the thought is how do we beat the warriors?
there's been talk about beating the warriors in other ways than shooting. but that has all sorts of problems. it assumes that we are good at something other than shooting that the warriors are not as good at. the warriors are good at everything because they have a team full of great shooters. some of them can sacrifice a few shots and focus more on defense, and they still have great shooters to spare.

we can't do that. we are not sacrificing when we play defense. we play defense because our life depends on it. because we will not be able to outscore the warriors. and you lose if you don't outscore them, lol. our hopes are all on kuzma and hart. eesh, nervous time.
lebron and rondo both have rings. and they have been on teams with all time great 3pt shooters. don't think our formula is going to be any different.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:49 pm    Post subject:

Per Pelinka - To hell with specialists!

If we have a couple of 38%ers over the course of the season, marry that with net 'positives' on the stat front - defence, that should offset(ish) the 4% fall from 'elite' designation...I think.

That shooters argument is a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. Basically all we have to do - easier said than done - is shoot better on average than the teams we play against.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:56 pm    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
Per Pelinka - To hell with specialists!

If we have a couple of 38%ers over the course of the season, marry that with net 'positives' on the stat front - defence, that should offset(ish) the 4% fall from 'elite' designation...I think.

That shooters argument is a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. Basically all we have to do - easier said than done - is shoot better on average than the teams we play against.


I'm not a fan of specialists in today's game. Especially if the alternative is getting a multi dimensional player who's only a few %s away from what the one dimensional specialist brings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.


Funny thing is George Hill's % dropped from Sac (45%) to Clev (35%) on the same about of shots (3 3PA). That's nuts.

JC's went from 32% to 40% (LA to Cavs) on the same 4 3PA.

Hood went from 38% to 35% (Utah to Cavs), while attempting less 6.7 3PA in Utah to only 3.4 in Cavs)



Hill only took 77 3-pointers in Cleve and Hood only took 71. 3-point shooting can go up and down, so I wouldn't read much into how guys did over 20 games.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:18 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.


Funny thing is George Hill's % dropped from Sac (45%) to Clev (35%) on the same about of shots (3 3PA). That's nuts.

JC's went from 32% to 40% (LA to Cavs) on the same 4 3PA.

Hood went from 38% to 35% (Utah to Cavs), while attempting less 6.7 3PA in Utah to only 3.4 in Cavs)



Hill only took 77 3-pointers in Cleve and Hood only took 71. 3-point shooting can go up and down, so I wouldn't read much into how guys did over 20 games.


Fair point. Let's include playoffs? About 19 more games.

Playoff numbers:
Hill 51 3PA at 31%
JC 46 3PA at 24%
RH 24 3PA at 17%

Yikes. Those guys were pretty bad in the Playoffs.
Shooting can fail us. And if you're a single dimensional shooter, what good are you at that point.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:12 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
activeverb wrote:
epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
I'd say 38% is setting the bar low to be called a 3pt specialist... its very solid but its not even good enough to get you in the top 50 for 3pt % in a season.
Id say elite 3pt shooting STARTS at 42%+

last season Lebron had:
Kyle Korver - 43.6%
Kevin Love - 41.5%
George Hill - 41.5%


that's the lebron effect. He's drawing a lot of attention and making the right passes to open shooters. No one was drawing doubles for the Lakers last year. The shooting should go up now that he's here.


Funny thing is George Hill's % dropped from Sac (45%) to Clev (35%) on the same about of shots (3 3PA). That's nuts.

JC's went from 32% to 40% (LA to Cavs) on the same 4 3PA.

Hood went from 38% to 35% (Utah to Cavs), while attempting less 6.7 3PA in Utah to only 3.4 in Cavs)



Hill only took 77 3-pointers in Cleve and Hood only took 71. 3-point shooting can go up and down, so I wouldn't read much into how guys did over 20 games.


Fair point. Let's include playoffs? About 19 more games.

Playoff numbers:
Hill 51 3PA at 31%
JC 46 3PA at 24%
RH 24 3PA at 17%

Yikes. Those guys were pretty bad in the Playoffs.
Shooting can fail us. And if you're a single dimensional shooter, what good are you at that point.


Yeah. Korver is elite but he was covered like flies on proverbial sh1t and couldn't get any clean looks.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject:

I can’t understand why they couldn’t have at least retained Frye to have a shooting big. I don’t think he would be going to Cleveland if the Lakers wanted him. Cleveland isn’t going anywhere next year. Man, you’d think this team has an excess of shooters or something with the casual way they’re just passing on these guys. It’s not like Frye would’ve had to be in the rotation. It’s just about having a big like him as an option at the very least when the team needs shooting. Meanwhile, you completely waste a roster spot on Zubac, as if he provides an array of skills that the team is sorely lacking in. Ugh.

I get that they don’t want one-way players who are just specialists, especially as shooters, but it’s not like you have something to lose if you at least give yourself the option of having shooters you can plug in for even brief stints. The only pick and pop guy LeBron has to play with is Kuzma. Wagner might be an option later, but we don’t know if he’ll be ready to play next year. This decision-making is very worrisome to me.
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Last edited by Judah on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject:

We do not have enough 3pt or 2pt shooting to get out of the West.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:08 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjW-hzh8-Vc

good analysis of this question


Love the logic.

The actual fallacy is that you can just replace shot attempts from poorer shooters with shot attempts from better ones. This is like saying if we replaced Kobe's 45% in the playoffs with Odom's 60%, we'd be the best team of all time.

Those 3's are there because those are the shots created. The volume of those shooters and their ability to create the 3pt look by themselves allows for other options to open up. Further, those better 3pt shooters might have been the playmakers. Volume and efficiency are usually inversely correlated for a reason. It's the volume of a less efficient scorer that opens up the efficiency of a less frequent attempter. And IT only played 17 games, so that's 17*6 = 102 attempts.

That being said, IT and Clarkson were absolutely chuckers, and Brook fell in love with his ability to get hot way too much. Conceivably if Rondo, Lance, Lonzo can become more of the playmakers and the most efficient shooters can benefit, then of course our percentage goes up. I just think that defenses will adjust if you have such a stark bifurcation of roles, and it goes counter to our "interchangeable" MO.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject:

Lebron James - 1.8made-5.0attempts 36.7%

he can be a 3pt threat playing off ball
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

PauPau wrote:
Per Pelinka - To hell with specialists!

If we have a couple of 38%ers over the course of the season, marry that with net 'positives' on the stat front - defence, that should offset(ish) the 4% fall from 'elite' designation...I think.

That shooters argument is a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. Basically all we have to do - easier said than done - is shoot better on average than the teams we play against.


Hi lakers fans!

Long time lurker....seldom poster here.....I coach High School basketball and football (which in no way makes me an expert on pro basketball...and have a son who is off to college on sports scholarship (which once again...means little except us coach dads spend a lot of time helping our kids with their game.

My son got scholarship offers for football and basketball.....went with football.....but in all honesty he was not a consistant effective scorer....but he took some advice I gave him early and ran with it....if you can be a lock down DEFENDER you will always have a place and a role on a team.

In my opinion.....defense is absolutely the most important thing a team can do to win a game....why? because shooting comes and goes....you can have a piss poor scoring quarter and if you can lock down the other team you can make it through it and come out the other side with a chance to win the game......energy.....defense....physical....wear the other team down and frustrate them.

Now I know that the warrior's buck this theory......you are not going to outscore those guys.....but the team that plays mistake free lock down D will have a chance to beat those guys and frustrate them at the end.....

Im not saying 3 point shooting is over rated.....only that in my opinion it is not the MOST important thing.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject:

Polarbear wrote:
PauPau wrote:
Per Pelinka - To hell with specialists!

If we have a couple of 38%ers over the course of the season, marry that with net 'positives' on the stat front - defence, that should offset(ish) the 4% fall from 'elite' designation...I think.

That shooters argument is a somewhat simplistic way of looking at things. Basically all we have to do - easier said than done - is shoot better on average than the teams we play against.


Hi lakers fans!

Long time lurker....seldom poster here.....I coach High School basketball and football (which in no way makes me an expert on pro basketball...and have a son who is off to college on sports scholarship (which once again...means little except us coach dads spend a lot of time helping our kids with their game.

My son got scholarship offers for football and basketball.....went with football.....but in all honesty he was not a consistant effective scorer....but he took some advice I gave him early and ran with it....if you can be a lock down DEFENDER you will always have a place and a role on a team.

In my opinion.....defense is absolutely the most important thing a team can do to win a game....why? because shooting comes and goes....you can have a piss poor scoring quarter and if you can lock down the other team you can make it through it and come out the other side with a chance to win the game......energy.....defense....physical....wear the other team down and frustrate them.

Now I know that the warrior's buck this theory......you are not going to outscore those guys.....but the team that plays mistake free lock down D will have a chance to beat those guys and frustrate them at the end.....

Im not saying 3 point shooting is over rated.....only that in my opinion it is not the MOST important thing.

Your framework is too simplistic. Even if you don't consider shooting to be the most important thing, that doesn't mean it isn't important. On its face, your framework can be true on some nights, but it'll probably lose you a lot more games in today's game than it'll win you. It's just not a formula for success anymore. It was a perfectly fine philosophy a decade or so ago when everyone was still playing through the post and shooting long two's. Offenses are too supercharged now to try to win primarily on defensive grit with minimal shooting. Good luck trying to beat an offensive juggernaut like the Warriors four times with ”mistake-free, lockdown D.”
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