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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:36 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
drae wrote:
We going to give Vogel credit for playing Rondo a total of 6 seconds in the fourth or does the energy only work the other way?

https://twitter.com/UnwrittenRul3s/status/1199925069641732096


Well he played him 19 minutes through 3 quarters. It shouldn’t have taken to the 4th to realize he hurts the team.


I'm just glad his lineups were a +0. Could have been worse.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Like it or not, we need Rondo especially with Lebron off the floor, he made some nice passes.
More importantly, he is our inbound guy at the end of games
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject:

So this is what it was like to be a Celtics fan when Kobe roamed all day and disrupted Celtics offense. Rondo is killing us with spacing. He’s gotta work on his jumper or attack the paint. He’s a good ball handler good passer.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:57 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
I wish he would just get cut. He hurts this team and it seems Vogel doesn’t have the balls to bench him.


LMAO, he was terrible tonight but he has more good games. He’s a minimum back up point guard.


If you’re looking at the box score, sure, he has some positive looking games.

However, defensively he makes the team way worse and kills floor spacing. I’d argue even his good games actually hurt the team more than they help.


Nah . I’m not looking at boxscore. Im looking at what he provide and his role. Playmaking and a backup PG . He has more good games so this is a hot take because of his terrible game today. Floor spacing? He is hitting his 3s. Today he did not .
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:04 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
drae wrote:
We going to give Vogel credit for playing Rondo a total of 6 seconds in the fourth or does the energy only work the other way?

https://twitter.com/UnwrittenRul3s/status/1199925069641732096


Well he played him 19 minutes through 3 quarters. It shouldn’t have taken to the 4th to realize he hurts the team.


I'm just glad his lineups were a +0. Could have been worse.


It felt worse because he was making a lot of dumb plays especially at the 2nd half. Worst was when he forced a contested shot when Kuz was open then forced a pass on Kuz in traffic the next play. But he made a lot of nifty passes with 7 dimes that people here take for granted. All those 3 balls that Pels made was from our starters because KCP was late in rotations, Mc Gee was waiting and Green just had an off night at both ends.
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LakerMindLA
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
I wish he would just get cut. He hurts this team and it seems Vogel doesn’t have the balls to bench him.


LMAO, he was terrible tonight but he has more good games. He’s a minimum back up point guard.


If you’re looking at the box score, sure, he has some positive looking games.

However, defensively he makes the team way worse and kills floor spacing. I’d argue even his good games actually hurt the team more than they help.


Nah . I’m not looking at boxscore. Im looking at what he provide and his role. Playmaking and a backup PG . He has more good games so this is a hot take because of his terrible game today. Floor spacing? He is hitting his 3s. Today he did not .


Don’t confuse hitting an open 3 with floor spacing. Defenses will never respect his outside shot and they continue to clog the paint daring him to shoot.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:52 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
I wish he would just get cut. He hurts this team and it seems Vogel doesn’t have the balls to bench him.


LMAO, he was terrible tonight but he has more good games. He’s a minimum back up point guard.


If you’re looking at the box score, sure, he has some positive looking games.

However, defensively he makes the team way worse and kills floor spacing. I’d argue even his good games actually hurt the team more than they help.


Nah . I’m not looking at boxscore. Im looking at what he provide and his role. Playmaking and a backup PG . He has more good games so this is a hot take because of his terrible game today. Floor spacing? He is hitting his 3s. Today he did not .


Don’t confuse hitting an open 3 with floor spacing. Defenses will never respect his outside shot and they continue to clog the paint daring him to shoot.


Like I said he’s not there to space the floor so don’t confuse what he does best which is playmaking. The disconnect is youre trying to make him something that he’s not. Throughout his career, they sag on him because of his poor shooting. This year, he is on a decent clip so he’s making them pay. The valid criticism is he is a defensive liability so far and the penchant for making dumb plays.
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wolfpaclaker
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:17 am    Post subject:

I also think with Rondo, you need someone at the 2 next to him who is a lights out shooter. I think the right pairing for Rondo is Danny Green. The Caruso-Rondo pairing is bad because it does not give us enough outside threats and then add Kuzma and Howard, you have 4 guys who are not always confident in their shot or making a play from outside (Dwight is a non-factor).

What Frank should do is take Danny Green out early and bring him back with the 2nd unit. Then encourage a lot of Rondo-Howard pick and rolls. This will allow the Lakers to have some options with Rondo as QB. We do not do this, and what we see is a lot of confusion.

BTW, the offense is also pretty bad when we run AD isolations. Rondo is not out there during those times. Blaming Rondo for an entire game is silly. The way we began playing last night was really with an agenda to get AD going. Dug ourselves a hole, then played the right way in the 3rd Q and needed brilliance from Lebron and AD to get it done. You would not have seen any difference if Cook had been playing Rondo minutes.

What you need is a lineup on the 2nd unit that knows what they are doing and giving Rondo targets. Lebron has targets with his lineups. Green. KCP. AD inside. McGee. Rondo needs some targets when he is in as QB2. Frank has not really done that for him.

I think one of the main goals Frank should have moving forward is to get more out of his bench. Lebron is playing too many minutes. He is a MVP and well rested due to his long offseason. At some point though, you want to rely less on Lebron. You want some second unit development. This is Rondo area. We have to give Rondo a real shot at being that QB2 and the way to do that is to set him up with some lineups that give him targets and also with him running more screen-rolls with Dwight.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 6:33 am    Post subject:

Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:46 am    Post subject:

fewer the minutes the better
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject:

I guess every team has to have that one guy who people like to hate, last years team had WAY TOO many of them.

Now I don't hate Rondo as much as many of the others here, I like his hustle and he occasionally gets a steal or pokes balls away, but I do agree he needs to score more.

His 3-point % is actually slightly higher than his overall FG %!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.


Caruso isn't a better option until he, too, starts hitting shots. AC gets an awful lot of love (deservedly) for his D . . . but his 94 ORtg is last - LAST - on the team by a bunch.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:16 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.


Caruso isn't a better option until he, too, starts hitting shots. AC gets an awful lot of love (deservedly) for his D . . . but his 94 ORtg is last - LAST - on the team by a bunch.


Is it coincidental that it’s winning time when he comes in and rondo is out?
Rondo has a role. But not at the expense of AC.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
CRoost wrote:
LakerMindLA wrote:
I wish he would just get cut. He hurts this team and it seems Vogel doesn’t have the balls to bench him.


LMAO, he was terrible tonight but he has more good games. He’s a minimum back up point guard.


If you’re looking at the box score, sure, he has some positive looking games.

However, defensively he makes the team way worse and kills floor spacing. I’d argue even his good games actually hurt the team more than they help.


Nah . I’m not looking at boxscore. Im looking at what he provide and his role. Playmaking and a backup PG . He has more good games so this is a hot take because of his terrible game today. Floor spacing? He is hitting his 3s. Today he did not .


He gets those wide open 3’s because teams don’t step out to guard him. The opposite of spacing the floor.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.

No one guards him, but that is not why we have issues. Even when Cook was running the 2nd unit, our 2nd unit was having trouble. Troy Daniels does not make his shots regularly. We need more scoring talent on that 2nd unit. Even if Caruso runs that 2nd unit, you will see the same results. Just better defense, and maybe even worse offense because if Caruso is your PG on the 2nd unit, you will not get any QB plays. The thing you are overlooking is how much QB Lebron had to play in this game. When Rondo plays badly, the Lakers have to ask Lebron to be QB the entire game and also close as a scorer. And play elite D. And lead. It is too much for the regular season. Much better to save that for the playoffs. Much better to develop and have a reliable 2nd unit, which right now we do not have. We can easily get better results with a 2nd unit if we bring some more shooting and scoring around Dwight and Rondo.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject:

wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.

No one guards him, but that is not why we have issues. Even when Cook was running the 2nd unit, our 2nd unit was having trouble. Troy Daniels does not make his shots regularly. We need more scoring talent on that 2nd unit. Even if Caruso runs that 2nd unit, you will see the same results. Just better defense, and maybe even worse offense because if Caruso is your PG on the 2nd unit, you will not get any QB plays. The thing you are overlooking is how much QB Lebron had to play in this game. When Rondo plays badly, the Lakers have to ask Lebron to be QB the entire game and also close as a scorer. And play elite D. And lead. It is too much for the regular season. Much better to save that for the playoffs. Much better to develop and have a reliable 2nd unit, which right now we do not have. We can easily get better results with a 2nd unit if we bring some more shooting and scoring around Dwight and Rondo.

So the answer is to try to find someone via trade or buyout down the road. rondo allows teams to collapse on AD too much. And defensively he’s just terrible which is expected since he hasn’t played it for about 5-6 years now.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

Caruso >>> rondo
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.


Caruso isn't a better option until he, too, starts hitting shots. AC gets an awful lot of love (deservedly) for his D . . . but his 94 ORtg is last - LAST - on the team by a bunch.

Yep the cherry picking on what to see and what not to see is awful analysis. The posters are ignoring Rondo having good games against defenses sagging of him and his 3 point percentage. Then they focus on the bad games and just call it a spade. Why not do that with Kuzma, Dwight and others - on the bench.

And look at Cooks numbers as a backup PG. Right now our 2nd unit needs more scoring talent. Lebron needs to rest more in games. We need to find a way to get 12-14 minutes of good offense without Lebron. How to do this is to surround Rondo with some shooting and scoring targets. It could be McGee as a lob and post up threat. It could be Green as a sniper. What I am seeing is that AD and Lebron can play with anyone and make anyone better. Caruso fits well with them. Dwight fits well with them. KCP fits great with them. However with the 2nd unit, this is an area we really need to solve with some changes in lineups. The entire season, we have had maybe a handful of games where when Lebron sat you could really just let him sit. We have been relying way, way too much on his play. We need to develop a second unit built around Rondos QB skills. How you do that is to get him quality shooters and scorers. Let him run the point and develop in that role throughout the season. Frank is doing that, he is just not surrounding him with shot makers that can make their looks (Daniels is not doing well, and Caruso is not a scoring threat from outside). A small lineup change with the 2nd unit can go a long way.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
wolfpaclaker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Wolf. Pels didn’t guard him. His man routinely doubled AD or post up guy. I would limit him to one shift a game. Maybe 10-12mpg tops. It’s long due. Caruso is a way better option.

No one guards him, but that is not why we have issues. Even when Cook was running the 2nd unit, our 2nd unit was having trouble. Troy Daniels does not make his shots regularly. We need more scoring talent on that 2nd unit. Even if Caruso runs that 2nd unit, you will see the same results. Just better defense, and maybe even worse offense because if Caruso is your PG on the 2nd unit, you will not get any QB plays. The thing you are overlooking is how much QB Lebron had to play in this game. When Rondo plays badly, the Lakers have to ask Lebron to be QB the entire game and also close as a scorer. And play elite D. And lead. It is too much for the regular season. Much better to save that for the playoffs. Much better to develop and have a reliable 2nd unit, which right now we do not have. We can easily get better results with a 2nd unit if we bring some more shooting and scoring around Dwight and Rondo.

So the answer is to try to find someone via trade or buyout down the road. rondo allows teams to collapse on AD too much. And defensively he’s just terrible which is expected since he hasn’t played it for about 5-6 years now.

Rondo gets AD and Lebron the ball in post entry feeds and passes like no other guard on the team. However the issue I have is not playing Caruso with AD-Lebron. I fully support Bradley and Caruso (Both for D) playing over Rondo with Lebron and AD. Lebron has QB skills. We will be fine. What I am saying is the lineups Cook and Rondo have played with have not been consistent or talented. We need to split the starting talent a bit better because backups like Dwight and Caruso have shown consistently that they will play well with AD and Lebron.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject:

Rondo really needs to be a one shift player. 10-12mpg not 20-24mpg. I’m fine with giving 2 6 minute shifts to be a ball handler. Should never close games as he is a spacing issue.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject:

Rajon is an issue altogether; and trying to justify his play is not going to help.

And yes, Caruso is shooting 28.5% from 3...

So, what do we do? We have to upgrade that position. We're just very limited in what we can do, though...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:10 am    Post subject:

Rondo isn't even great on offense but we have 0 playmakers outside of LBJ. Unfortunately, Caruso is not great at this point offensively.

I hope we get lucky on the buyout market.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:55 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Rondo isn't even great on offense but we have 0 playmakers outside of LBJ. Unfortunately, Caruso is not great at this point offensively.

I hope we get lucky on the buyout market.


Right. LBJ will likely play 35mpg. Play rondo for the 12-13mpg LBJ is off the floor and that should be it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
Rondo isn't even great on offense but we have 0 playmakers outside of LBJ. Unfortunately, Caruso is not great at this point offensively.

I hope we get lucky on the buyout market.


Right. LBJ will likely play 35mpg. Play rondo for the 12-13mpg LBJ is off the floor and that should be it.



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject:

Clip in link:

Rondo makes great passes but he also doesn't make the right passes. The ball needs to go to 'Bron. Not only is he in the middle of the floor but he's freaking LeBron James! He's actually waiting for it but it never comes.

https://twitter.com/TheLakersReview/status/1199964643118088193
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