RAJON RONDO Official Thread (out of playoffs for 8 weeks)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
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yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
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Quote:
The Lakers Review
@TheLakersReview

a few thoughts on the game:

- game ball: Avery Bradley
- Rondo with some quality minutes in the 3rd.
- Kuz was a make or two away from three from having a great game.
- AD better versus the Clippers than the Bucks.
- what hasn’t already been said about LeBron James? geezus. MVP.


Quote:
Laker Film Room @LakerFilmRoom
Excellent last 2 minutes from Rondo

Replying to @LakerFilmRoom
You doing positive affirmation. I respect that. You’re a better man.

Laker Film Room @LakerFilmRoom
Lmao I try to just call it like I see it

It's nothing personal against Rondo or anyone else


Yup. He had a horrible first shift. Decent 2nd shift.

If the thinking is that Rondo's 2nd shift depends on his 1st shift, then at least be consistent.


Was Alex dealing with an injury limiting his availability in the 2nd half?


Nope. He doesn't have the same leash as Rondo. I don't recall hearing about an injury.


Oh, it was from reading Alex's thread yesterday. From our very own insider

drae wrote:
He had a sore hamstring. Didn't play in the second half.

I hope to God he didn't make it worse


Tough to tell if it was soreness or if it was due to AB playing so well.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:39 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. He had a horrible first shift. Decent 2nd shift.

If the thinking is that Rondo's 2nd shift depends on his 1st shift, then at least be consistent.


I'm just thinking the list of people who could do his job for his price is short.
Especially considering the trust he garners from our players and coaching staff.

Those 7 dimes were helpful. It's why his +/- was neutral against a top tier team despite his poor shooting.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:41 am    Post subject:

We did have the cap space to add a guard who could have been a better backup.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:43 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
We did have the cap space to add a guard who could have been a better backup.

If you're saying D. Green hasn't been worth 14 mill so far this season. I agree. But I'm still optimistic he'll help us in the postseason.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject:

I would say that now though I was all for signing him in the offseason. I think that we wasted money on Cousins (now and at the time).
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:51 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. He had a horrible first shift. Decent 2nd shift.

If the thinking is that Rondo's 2nd shift depends on his 1st shift, then at least be consistent.


I'm just thinking the list of people who could do his job for his price is short.
Especially considering the trust he garners from our players and coaching staff.

Those 7 dimes were helpful. It's why his +/- was neutral against a top tier team despite his poor shooting.


I think we had the right idea that we needed help when they went all out for Darren Collison and tried to trade for Rose. It was at least an admission that our backup PG was an area we needed to improve.

We didn't. So Rondo will likely get 12-14mpg. My hope is he gets only one guaranteed shift. If he doesn't have it that night, move to the next options. I fear that won't be the case though.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:54 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I would say that now though I was all for signing him in the offseason. I think that we wasted money on Cousins (now and at the time).

At least it wasn't D. Jordan's 4 year 40 million dollar contract.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
I would say that now though I was all for signing him in the offseason. I think that we wasted money on Cousins (now and at the time).

At least it wasn't D. Jordan's 4 year 40 million dollar contract.


Yeah. Rondo went from 9m last year to the vet's min. And what do they say? Once you sign a vet's min. deal that's all you'll be getting thereafter. I was fine with him as a vet's min. deal but didn't expect him to be our primary backup PG at the start of the year. I thought we'd look for better options (which we tried and didn't do) throughout the year. I'm not mad at Rondo's contract by any means.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:

Yup. He had a horrible first shift. Decent 2nd shift.

If the thinking is that Rondo's 2nd shift depends on his 1st shift, then at least be consistent.


I'm just thinking the list of people who could do his job for his price is short.
Especially considering the trust he garners from our players and coaching staff.

Those 7 dimes were helpful. It's why his +/- was neutral against a top tier team despite his poor shooting.

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject:

It's alright. Sometimes wearing a 25 pound weight vest around for no reason will make you stronger and faster when you shed it.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Winning that game despite bricking almost everything from 3 AND playing Rondo 20 minutes was by the far the biggest statement this year that this team could win the title.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:25 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Winning that game despite bricking almost everything from 3 AND playing Rondo 20 minutes was by the far the biggest statement this year that this team could win the title.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:29 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It's alright. Sometimes wearing a 25 pound weight vest around for no reason will make you stronger and faster when you shed it.


Folks who watch Dragon Ball Z or Naruto will understand.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:33 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
Winning that game despite bricking almost everything from 3 AND playing Rondo 20 minutes was by the far the biggest statement this year that this team could win the title.


Pretty profound and true statement.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 1:55 pm    Post subject:

The best solution to the PG problem is to teach Caruso, Bradley, and Cook how to dribble the ball and bring it up court and start the offense.
Rondo is the only other player who can run an offense. These PGs are hard to find. Would give him 5 to 8 min spells to see how much juice he has that day.

Waiters is the other player who can possibly run an offense. But he hasn't played in awhile.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
The best solution to the PG problem is to teach Caruso, Bradley, and Cook how to dribble the ball and bring it up court and start the offense.
Rondo is the only other player who can run an offense. These PGs are hard to find. Would give him 5 to 8 min spells to see how much juice he has that day.

Waiters is the other player who can possibly run an offense. But he hasn't played in awhile.

ugh where is this coming from?
pretty much any of our guards except for Green can handle the basic skill of bringing the ball up court and making an entry pass.
eye test and numbers show our bench does better without Rondo in the game to "save" them
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:44 pm    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them


If a -1 and 0 +/- off the beach against the Bucks and Clippers are “bad” for a 2.5 million dollar backup PG and BY FAR the 2nd best playmaker on the team.

You may have an unreasonably high standard for “bad”.

Overall, this season. Has he been bad? Of course!
These last two games he’s been fine. Not good or great. Or bad or horrible. Just fine. Like a C grade.

And this is coming from someone yelling for Vogel to pull him sooner the 1st half last game.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:48 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
audioaxes wrote:

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them


If a -1 and 0 +/- off the beach against the Bucks and Clippers are “bad” for a 2.5 million dollar backup PG and BY FAR the 2nd best playmaker on the team.

You may have an unreasonably high standard for “bad”.

Overall, this season. Has he been bad? Of course!
These last two games he’s been fine. Not good or great. Or bad or horrible. Just fine. Like a C grade.

And this is coming from someone yelling for Vogel to pull him sooner the 1st half last game.


Usually fans are going to see what they want to see. Notice Alex had a -3 yesterday, but most fans wont know why, because they're already watching him with a positive light. The opposite of Rondo is that they're already watching him in a negative light Every mistake is magnified. Anything positive he does is just thrown out.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:50 pm    Post subject:

I know I say positive things about Rondo. And that’s a sin.

But I’d prefer he never played and our coaching staff built an offense that had more player and ball movement when LBJ wasn’t in.

But I don’t think that was ever in the cards. If we got Collison or R. Jackson before the deadline. We’d simply give one of them the ball when LBJ goes to the bench and say “go be LBJ for us”. Rondo has been bad this season. But he’s also been the whipping boy.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:00 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
I know I say positive things about Rondo. And that’s a sin.

But I’d prefer he never played and our coaching staff built an offense that had more player and ball movement when LBJ wasn’t in.

But I don’t think that was ever in the cards. If we got Collison or R. Jackson before the deadline. We’d simply give one of them the ball when LBJ goes to the bench and say “go be LBJ for us”. Rondo has been bad this season. But he’s also been the whipping boy.


But do you think it's possible to play one way with Lebron on the court. And then have the other guys play like the Warriors (in terms of ball movement and actions) when he's off?
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:38 pm    Post subject:

^Warriors is pretty ambitious. But something like the Heat run is do-able.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 5:19 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
kikanga wrote:
audioaxes wrote:

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them


If a -1 and 0 +/- off the beach against the Bucks and Clippers are “bad” for a 2.5 million dollar backup PG and BY FAR the 2nd best playmaker on the team.

You may have an unreasonably high standard for “bad”.

Overall, this season. Has he been bad? Of course!
These last two games he’s been fine. Not good or great. Or bad or horrible. Just fine. Like a C grade.

And this is coming from someone yelling for Vogel to pull him sooner the 1st half last game.


Usually fans are going to see what they want to see. Notice Alex had a -3 yesterday, but most fans wont know why, because they're already watching him with a positive light. The opposite of Rondo is that they're already watching him in a negative light Every mistake is magnified. Anything positive he does is just thrown out.


But that's why you don't evaluate based on one game. Over a nearly 65 game sample size we know that Caruso positively impacts the game on both ends when he comes in.

The expectation is that a 10+ year veteran/former all star/champ should be able to be more consistent in being a steady player on both ends. Is that a fair assumption for him?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:29 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
epic_ wrote:
kikanga wrote:
audioaxes wrote:

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them


If a -1 and 0 +/- off the beach against the Bucks and Clippers are “bad” for a 2.5 million dollar backup PG and BY FAR the 2nd best playmaker on the team.

You may have an unreasonably high standard for “bad”.

Overall, this season. Has he been bad? Of course!
These last two games he’s been fine. Not good or great. Or bad or horrible. Just fine. Like a C grade.

And this is coming from someone yelling for Vogel to pull him sooner the 1st half last game.


Usually fans are going to see what they want to see. Notice Alex had a -3 yesterday, but most fans wont know why, because they're already watching him with a positive light. The opposite of Rondo is that they're already watching him in a negative light Every mistake is magnified. Anything positive he does is just thrown out.


But that's why you don't evaluate based on one game. Over a nearly 65 game sample size we know that Caruso positively impacts the game on both ends when he comes in.

The expectation is that a 10+ year veteran/former all star/champ should be able to be more consistent in being a steady player on both ends. Is that a fair assumption for him?


[edit]
I'm speaking more on the day to day games.
Where people come into a player thread and say a player played well or bad.

Like you just stated, Alex has a positive impact overall and Rondo has had a negative. I dont think anyone would argue that. But with that fact, I believe confirmation bias leads a lot of fans to not be able to critique players properly on a game to game basis.
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Last edited by epic_ on Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:41 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:36 am    Post subject:

epic_ wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
epic_ wrote:
kikanga wrote:
audioaxes wrote:

he does a below average job at what he's supposed to be good at and that job is not even necessary. We play just fine in non-Lebron lineups when Rondo isnt in. Vogel is trying to make Rondo a bad solution to a problem that is not even there.

also btw Rondo is currently near his bad career average on 3 point % all the while being afforded to cleanest looks by far on them


If a -1 and 0 +/- off the beach against the Bucks and Clippers are “bad” for a 2.5 million dollar backup PG and BY FAR the 2nd best playmaker on the team.

You may have an unreasonably high standard for “bad”.

Overall, this season. Has he been bad? Of course!
These last two games he’s been fine. Not good or great. Or bad or horrible. Just fine. Like a C grade.

And this is coming from someone yelling for Vogel to pull him sooner the 1st half last game.


Usually fans are going to see what they want to see. Notice Alex had a -3 yesterday, but most fans wont know why, because they're already watching him with a positive light. The opposite of Rondo is that they're already watching him in a negative light Every mistake is magnified. Anything positive he does is just thrown out.


But that's why you don't evaluate based on one game. Over a nearly 65 game sample size we know that Caruso positively impacts the game on both ends when he comes in.

The expectation is that a 10+ year veteran/former all star/champ should be able to be more consistent in being a steady player on both ends. Is that a fair assumption for him?


That's obvious.
But talking about how a player is doing for the season is different than posting in a players thread after every game and saying a player did well or a player did bad. I'm talking about the latter.


But isn't that what you're doing by pointing to Caruso's -3 for that game too?

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, the "good" games are much rarer than bad games. So even I will give him credit for "good" games as they are the exception, not the norm. I just wish we had a more steady and dependable veteran backup PG.

People like to focus on his non-shooting/overdribbling, but my concern is his lack of defense. We like to switch too and teams will do what LBJ did to Lou Will, i.e. actively hunt out Rondo on switches. Caruso gives you a fighting chance in those situations.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject:

I'm speaking more on the day to day games.
Where people come into a player thread and say a player played well or bad.

Like you just stated, Alex has a positive impact overall and Rondo has had a negative. I dont think anyone would argue that. But with that fact, I believe confirmation bias leads a lot of fans to not be able to critique players properly on a game to game basis.


yinoma2001 wrote:
But isn't that what you're doing by pointing to Caruso's -3 for that game too?

I mean, let's not kid ourselves, the "good" games are much rarer than bad games. So even I will give him credit for "good" games as they are the exception, not the norm. I just wish we had a more steady and dependable veteran backup PG.

People like to focus on his non-shooting/overdribbling, but my concern is his lack of defense. We like to switch too and teams will do what LBJ did to Lou Will, i.e. actively hunt out Rondo on switches. Caruso gives you a fighting chance in those situations.


I edited my post above, to be more clear hopefully.
RE: Alex, I'm not pointing out that he was bad with the -3, I'm just pointing out that his lineup wasn't so hot, as we were talking about Rondo's lineup being able to get back to a net 0 after being horrid in the 1st half.

And again, no one is arguing who has the greater impact overall in the season. We know this. I mean we can read it in almost everyone of your posts that Rondo is not good
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