RAJON RONDO Thread (Watching film with Kuzma, p.37)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31 ... 38, 39, 40  Next

 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lakerjoshua
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11115
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:14 pm    Post subject:

crucifixion wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I respect all of you, but it’s funny as hell how an interview or two can change some of you all’s opinion of Rondo.

Just shows how misinformed and blind some of us are.

Still waiting for that first post from Baron after he realizes he was wrong about Rondo. Like many, after hearing his interviews, he too is probably questioning his lambasting of the Rondo signing after hearing the inner workings of Rondo’s mind and sensing the type of immeasurable intangibles that Rondo will add to the team.

Truth is, we’re all guilty of being wrong, and we’re all guilty of not being able to see or understand how pieces will fit until the hazy picture becomes more defined.

Some see and/or understand things quickly, some don’t.


👍🏿


Certain posters on here only look at advanced stats without actually watching the player play. They base their entire analysis of a player off of all encompassing advanced stats like RPM. A stat that the formula isn't available for the public and is created by a person who has bias for what they wanted to put value on to.

Best way to evaluate a player and how they fit for a team is to watch them play and to look at their Synergy data. All encompassing stats like RPM and WS/48 should only be used to back up what you already have seen.


Exactly. This is the whole reason for fights on DLo. Too many idiots just look at advanced stats without taking a step back and watch games and use common sense. So far the regular people have been proved right and advanced stats guys wrong. Not saying advanced stats guys are 100% wrong but you need to first build a baseline with the eye test then use advanced stats to break ties. Nothing more than that.


4 post comment thread consisting of nothing but bashing other posters. You are what’s wrong with LG and should all be suspended. Talk basketball or don’t post, so tired of having to read your crap posts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
dcastillo
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 953

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject:

TrekLife wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”



I love this. And everybody was so excited when we heard Lonzo is watching film an hour a week with Magic

I swear these young guys better learn from these vets. Especially bron and rondo.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Ziggy
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 10489

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject:

dcastillo wrote:
TrekLife wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”



I love this. And everybody was so excited when we heard Lonzo is watching film an hour a week with Magic

I swear these young guys better learn from these vets. Especially bron and rondo.


They are two of the smartest minds in the entire league. Both guys call out what plays the other teams are going to run . If these young guys don't at least absorb a fraction of that through osmosis, then they're just not trying.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker's Fan
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 7964

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:31 pm    Post subject:

Excellent piece by Sam Smith (Chicago) from 6/30/17 on the Rondo experience for the Bulls. Lots of applicable stuff for his current situation with the Lakers.

https://www.nba.com/bulls/news/rondo-gone-strong-impressions-left
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
kikanga
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 17313
Location: La La Land

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I respect all of you, but it’s funny as hell how an interview or two can change some of you all’s opinion of Rondo.

Just shows how misinformed and blind some of us are.

Still waiting for that first post from Baron after he realizes he was wrong about Rondo. Like many, after hearing his interviews, he too is probably questioning his lambasting of the Rondo signing after hearing the inner workings of Rondo’s mind and sensing the type of immeasurable intangibles that Rondo will add to the team.

Truth is, we’re all guilty of being wrong, and we’re all guilty of not being able to see or understand how pieces will fit until the hazy picture becomes more defined.

Some see and/or understand things quickly, some don’t.


👍🏿


Certain posters on here only look at advanced stats without actually watching the player play. They base their entire analysis of a player off of all encompassing advanced stats like RPM. A stat that the formula isn't available for the public and is created by a person who has bias for what they wanted to put value on to.

Best way to evaluate a player and how they fit for a team is to watch them play and to look at their Synergy data. All encompassing stats like RPM and WS/48 should only be used to back up what you already have seen.


Exactly. This is the whole reason for fights on DLo. Too many idiots just look at advanced stats without taking a step back and watch games and use common sense. So far the regular people have been proved right and advanced stats guys wrong. Not saying advanced stats guys are 100% wrong but you need to first build a baseline with the eye test then use advanced stats to break ties. Nothing more than that.


4 post comment thread consisting of nothing but bashing other posters. You are what’s wrong with LG and should all be suspended. Talk basketball or don’t post, so tired of having to read your crap posts.


I agree. Attack the post, not the poster. But you kinda just did the same thing.
And now I'm analyzing you, the poster, as well.
_________________
"The fundamental cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Joe Pesci
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 1975

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
lakerjoshua wrote:
crucifixion wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
AFireInside619 wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
I respect all of you, but it’s funny as hell how an interview or two can change some of you all’s opinion of Rondo.

Just shows how misinformed and blind some of us are.

Still waiting for that first post from Baron after he realizes he was wrong about Rondo. Like many, after hearing his interviews, he too is probably questioning his lambasting of the Rondo signing after hearing the inner workings of Rondo’s mind and sensing the type of immeasurable intangibles that Rondo will add to the team.

Truth is, we’re all guilty of being wrong, and we’re all guilty of not being able to see or understand how pieces will fit until the hazy picture becomes more defined.

Some see and/or understand things quickly, some don’t.


👍🏿


Certain posters on here only look at advanced stats without actually watching the player play. They base their entire analysis of a player off of all encompassing advanced stats like RPM. A stat that the formula isn't available for the public and is created by a person who has bias for what they wanted to put value on to.

Best way to evaluate a player and how they fit for a team is to watch them play and to look at their Synergy data. All encompassing stats like RPM and WS/48 should only be used to back up what you already have seen.


Exactly. This is the whole reason for fights on DLo. Too many idiots just look at advanced stats without taking a step back and watch games and use common sense. So far the regular people have been proved right and advanced stats guys wrong. Not saying advanced stats guys are 100% wrong but you need to first build a baseline with the eye test then use advanced stats to break ties. Nothing more than that.


4 post comment thread consisting of nothing but bashing other posters. You are what’s wrong with LG and should all be suspended. Talk basketball or don’t post, so tired of having to read your crap posts.


I agree. Attack the post, not the poster. But you kinda just did the same thing.
And now I'm analyzing you, the poster, as well.

Other than calling out Bard, I thought I was quite measured, but I understand you all’s points.

I will say though that criticism is a big part of people being here; it’s somewhat ingrained in this entire concept.

But I can easily concede that even criticism has its’ limits.
_________________
PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso
SG - Pope - Hart - Mykhailiuk
C - McGee - Kuzma - Zubac
PF - James - Beasley - Wagner - Wear
SF - Ingram - Stephenson - Bonga
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Daphanabe
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2114

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”




Awesome stuff! I’ve always liked Rondo (not really, just when he became a Laker)


I've liked Rondo ever since he got to Chicago.


Conditioned to hate him for all those battles against the Celtics in the late '00s.
I've always respected his game and wished he was a Laker. I remember being on LG during his draft and a lot of knowledgeable posters here were getting excited as he wasn't drafted yet and it was getting close to our pick. Ironically he got drafted with a pick we had traded and we ended up with Farmar a few pics after.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
epak
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 22841

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”




Awesome stuff! I’ve always liked Rondo (not really, just when he became a Laker)


I've liked Rondo ever since he got to Chicago.


Conditioned to hate him for all those battles against the Celtics in the late '00s.
I've always respected his game and wished he was a Laker. I remember being on LG during his draft and a lot of knowledgeable posters here were getting excited as he wasn't drafted yet and it was getting close to our pick. Ironically he got drafted with a pick we had traded and we ended up with Farmar a few pics after.


Worked out. Farmar helped the Lakers win 2 chips.
I hated Rondo in Boston.
I was apathetic towards him when he was in Sacramento and Dallas.
But when he got to Chicago and helped the Bulls be up 2-0 against Boston in the playoffs, I was impressed.
_________________
👊 Los Angeles Lakers 👊
One more trade to get rid of the old regime's players!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
YSong
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 16 Sep 2016
Posts: 685

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:33 pm    Post subject:

I think Rondo will be a great asset to the Lakers

I do feel bad for posters in the past who wanted Rondo and got bashed for it on LG.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakerjoshua
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 28 Nov 2007
Posts: 11115
Location: Bay Area

PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”




Awesome stuff! I’ve always liked Rondo (not really, just when he became a Laker)


I've liked Rondo ever since he got to Chicago.


Conditioned to hate him for all those battles against the Celtics in the late '00s.
I've always respected his game and wished he was a Laker. I remember being on LG during his draft and a lot of knowledgeable posters here were getting excited as he wasn't drafted yet and it was getting close to our pick. Ironically he got drafted with a pick we had traded and we ended up with Farmar a few pics after.


Worked out. Farmar helped the Lakers win 2 chips.
I hated Rondo in Boston.
I was apathetic towards him when he was in Sacramento and Dallas.
But when he got to Chicago and helped the Bulls be up 2-0 against Boston in the playoffs, I was impressed.


For me, the Rondo pill was hard to swallow, he's always been a Celtic to me.

I'll admit, I've done a complete 180. Love the signing and can't wait for the season to start!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Joe Pesci
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 15 Oct 2017
Posts: 1975

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:24 am    Post subject:

Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.
_________________
PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso
SG - Pope - Hart - Mykhailiuk
C - McGee - Kuzma - Zubac
PF - James - Beasley - Wagner - Wear
SF - Ingram - Stephenson - Bonga
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Judah
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 3648

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

Last night I posted a couple of clips in the LeBron thread that showcased his basketball IQ. And here's some examples below of Rondo's, one being a story from Scalabrine, the other a short clip. He and LeBron are on a totally different level in the way they ”think the game” as LeBron puts it.

”After retirement, Scalabrine became an assistant for the Warriors. When he returned to TD Garden during a regular-season game, Scalabrine said head coach Mark Jackson shouted a call, “42 cross”, for his team. But it was a bluff. The Warriors didn’t have a “42 cross” in their playbook, and Rondo knew.

Per Scalabrine:

“Rondo looked at Mark, and then he looked in the air and said, ’42 cross, 42 cross,’ and then he looked back at Mark and said, ‘You don’t have a 42 cross.’ I was like, ‘How the hell did he just know that?’ Somehow, some way, he knew that. And they’re not a rival. It wasn’t a playoff series. It was an insignificant game during the middle of the week. He was the smartest player I’ve ever played with, and it’s not even close.”

https://youtu.be/EDiIWlmyRow
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper

"All heroes are shadows of Christ."
- John Piper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Baron Von Humongous
Franchise Player
Franchise Player


Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 14704

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
_________________
Banana Head
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:32 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BigGameHames
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 4733

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Not just the hedging, but Cousins (or perhaps just the bad defensive chemisty of an oversized lineup) was the reason for Rondo's inferior numbers defensively. Rondo had a 113 DRtg w/Cousins, 102 without. He played 40% of his minutes w/ Cousins. Brook doesn't play as many minutes, nor is he defending much PnR action w/ Lonzo because KCP/Hart are the on-ball defenders.

If you're speaking of other metrics that equate rebounding directly to playing defense, and that value steals/blocks over staying in front of their man, we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of such a simple analytic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Polarbear
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject:

lakerjoshua wrote:
epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
epak wrote:
Daphanabe wrote:
Jordan-esque wrote:
https://twitter.com/lakersreporter/status/1016810539622625281?s=21

Quote:
Pelinka shared this about Rajon Rondo:

“The first day when Rondo came, the first thing he did is ask, ‘Where’s your film guy.’ He had him pull film on every single player on our roster so he could start to study their tendencies.’”




Awesome stuff! I’ve always liked Rondo (not really, just when he became a Laker)


I've liked Rondo ever since he got to Chicago.


Conditioned to hate him for all those battles against the Celtics in the late '00s.
I've always respected his game and wished he was a Laker. I remember being on LG during his draft and a lot of knowledgeable posters here were getting excited as he wasn't drafted yet and it was getting close to our pick. Ironically he got drafted with a pick we had traded and we ended up with Farmar a few pics after.


Worked out. Farmar helped the Lakers win 2 chips.
I hated Rondo in Boston.
I was apathetic towards him when he was in Sacramento and Dallas.
But when he got to Chicago and helped the Bulls be up 2-0 against Boston in the playoffs, I was impressed.


If Rick Fox can become a beloved laker......so can Rajon.

I am just wondering how we fit him under our cap NEXT year.....it looks like it will be extremely tight
For me, the Rondo pill was hard to swallow, he's always been a Celtic to me.

I'll admit, I've done a complete 180. Love the signing and can't wait for the season to start!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 93032
Location: Do you believe in Magic?

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:07 am    Post subject:

Rondo would be taking a paycut to stay here. Most I would say is the room exception.
_________________
We have LBJ.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
BigGameHames
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 4733

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Not just the hedging, but Cousins (or perhaps just the bad defensive chemisty of an oversized lineup) was the reason for Rondo's inferior numbers defensively. Rondo had a 113 DRtg w/Cousins, 102 without. He played 40% of his minutes w/ Cousins. Brook doesn't play as many minutes, nor is he defending much PnR action w/ Lonzo because KCP/Hart are the on-ball defenders.

If you're speaking of other metrics that equate rebounding directly to playing defense, and that value steals/blocks over staying in front of their man, we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of such a simple analytic.


I think you’re exaggerating how much Lonzo is off the ball. Defensive rebounding is a huge part of defense, it’s how you end the opponents possession. Same can be said for steals.

Staying in front of your man is important but it doesn’t end a possession. Getting a steal or a rebound does. I value off ball team defense and ability to guard multiple positions more than being able to keep PGs in front especially when considering Lonzos ability to recover and contest shots when he gets beat.

I also think you’d be surprised by Lonzos defensive numbers on the ball. They aren’t bad at all. I’m not just looking at analytics, I’m watching the games and Lonzo is more disruptive than Rondo and can guard more positions because of his size. I agree that Rondo is more adapt at keeping PGs in front of him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
myunibrodavis
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:12 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Not just the hedging, but Cousins (or perhaps just the bad defensive chemisty of an oversized lineup) was the reason for Rondo's inferior numbers defensively. Rondo had a 113 DRtg w/Cousins, 102 without. He played 40% of his minutes w/ Cousins. Brook doesn't play as many minutes, nor is he defending much PnR action w/ Lonzo because KCP/Hart are the on-ball defenders.

If you're speaking of other metrics that equate rebounding directly to playing defense, and that value steals/blocks over staying in front of their man, we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of such a simple analytic.


while i agree to an extent that rondos defense isn't as bad as numbers make them look

the reason his def rtg was 102 without cousins is because the vast majority of those minutes were with holiday and davis

his defensive rtg with davis off the floor, after cousins got injured, was the worst on the team for all players with davis off the floor.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
myunibrodavis
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:21 am    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Not just the hedging, but Cousins (or perhaps just the bad defensive chemisty of an oversized lineup) was the reason for Rondo's inferior numbers defensively. Rondo had a 113 DRtg w/Cousins, 102 without. He played 40% of his minutes w/ Cousins. Brook doesn't play as many minutes, nor is he defending much PnR action w/ Lonzo because KCP/Hart are the on-ball defenders.

If you're speaking of other metrics that equate rebounding directly to playing defense, and that value steals/blocks over staying in front of their man, we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of such a simple analytic.




one thing about rondos defensive numbers is he is kind of a lazy rs defender, at least compared to the intensity of his defense in the playoffs (bigger jump than normal)

but lonzo projects to be a better defender next year because switchability effort consistency size etc. iirc he is among the league leaders in things like deflections per game, and his new muscle will only help his defense beca used his problem was he got bullied a lot last year

there is the element that rondo can call out opposing plays and communicate on defense better than lonzo can probably.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject:

myunibrodavis wrote:

while i agree to an extent that rondos defense isn't as bad as numbers make them look

the reason his def rtg was 102 without cousins is because the vast majority of those minutes were with holiday and davis

his defensive rtg with davis off the floor, after cousins got injured, was the worst on the team for all players with davis off the floor.


And yet curiously, after the Cousins injury, the team was better during the minutes that Davis/Rondo played together w/o Holiday (+8.1) than when Davis/Holiday played while Rondo sat (+6.8).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:59 pm    Post subject:

myunibrodavis wrote:

one thing about rondos defensive numbers is he is kind of a lazy rs defender, at least compared to the intensity of his defense in the playoffs (bigger jump than normal)

but lonzo projects to be a better defender next year because switchability effort consistency size etc. iirc he is among the league leaders in things like deflections per game, and his new muscle will only help his defense beca used his problem was he got bullied a lot last year

there is the element that rondo can call out opposing plays and communicate on defense better than lonzo can probably.


Playoffs are better for Rondo because he can really study a team in-depth playing them in a series, as opposed to the grind of the regular season.

Lonzo should start, as we already have a very good on-ball defender in KCP (or Hart). I agree with the switchability benefit of playing him over Rajon and that deflections are an underrated statistic. He will be better over the course of an 82 game season, but there may be matchups in the postseason, or at the end of games where Rondo is the better choice; especially if Lonzo only hits 33% on spot ups again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
myunibrodavis
Rookie
Rookie


Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
myunibrodavis wrote:

while i agree to an extent that rondos defense isn't as bad as numbers make them look

the reason his def rtg was 102 without cousins is because the vast majority of those minutes were with holiday and davis

his defensive rtg with davis off the floor, after cousins got injured, was the worst on the team for all players with davis off the floor.


And yet curiously, after the Cousins injury, the team was better during the minutes that Davis/Rondo played together w/o Holiday (+8.1) than when Davis/Holiday played while Rondo sat (+6.8).


Did you get that from nbawowy? Because nbawowy was extremely glitched for this past season, just wondering
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1037

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Unless, Ball becomes the knockdown shooter he was at UCLA, Rondo should start.

I fully expect Rondo to play well this year and to be resigned for next year as well. This year, and the next should be viewed as Ball’s apprenticeship.

After two years of being challenged and taught by Rondo, Ball will be ready to explode as a solid, savvy nightly triple double threat. One could argue he already is, but I he is neither consistently “solid” nor savvy right now ... not yet.

He’ll get lots of minutes, but unless Ball is the much better shooter than Rondo, “51%” of the minutes should go to Rondo, including closing games.

Nonsense. Lonzo was already a comparable passer as a rookie and was far better on defense.
Maybe his rookie defense wasn't what it is now, but w/o Boogie and his awful hedging on screens, Rondo had a DRTG of 102 last year. Lonzo was mostly the helper on defense, often hidden on a weak offensive player so he could disrupt passing lanes.

Rebounding would push some of Zo's more rudimentary defensive metrics above Rondo's, but those same numbers suggested Boozer's defense was on Noah's level when the two played together, and that Derrick Rose was a lockdown defender in his MVP year. The unholy acronym, indeed. If I type it's name, I lose a bet.


Boogies hedging is lightyears ahead of Lopez’. Boogies hedging is not the reason for Rondos inferior numbers.
Not just the hedging, but Cousins (or perhaps just the bad defensive chemisty of an oversized lineup) was the reason for Rondo's inferior numbers defensively. Rondo had a 113 DRtg w/Cousins, 102 without. He played 40% of his minutes w/ Cousins. Brook doesn't play as many minutes, nor is he defending much PnR action w/ Lonzo because KCP/Hart are the on-ball defenders.

If you're speaking of other metrics that equate rebounding directly to playing defense, and that value steals/blocks over staying in front of their man, we will just have to agree to disagree on the value of such a simple analytic.


I think you’re exaggerating how much Lonzo is off the ball. Defensive rebounding is a huge part of defense, it’s how you end the opponents possession. Same can be said for steals.

Staying in front of your man is important but it doesn’t end a possession. Getting a steal or a rebound does. I value off ball team defense and ability to guard multiple positions more than being able to keep PGs in front especially when considering Lonzos ability to recover and contest shots when he gets beat.

I also think you’d be surprised by Lonzos defensive numbers on the ball. They aren’t bad at all. I’m not just looking at analytics, I’m watching the games and Lonzo is more disruptive than Rondo and can guard more positions because of his size. I agree that Rondo is more adapt at keeping PGs in front of him.
Steals can't be counted on (no one averages even 3 per game), and many years the steals leaders are 4 matadors and Chris Paul. More often than not, a steal attempt whiffs and gives up a high % look.

Off ball defense is essential, yet the first line of defense breaking down will lead to a loss vs elite teams that keep the ball moving. That first line is the on-ball defender. Getting beat and recovering to contest the shot is not something that can be counted on in May/June. There is no rebound to begin with if the lead defensive guard can't stay in front of the opposing pg/playmaker, somewhere down the line there will be a wide open shot from all the helping/recovering.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lonzo's on-ball numbers were good - that's the coaching staff putting him in positions to succeed. He's not guarding Harden or Irving on islands the way KCP was. Heard Cranjis had DLo's on-ball defensive numbers the same as KCP's...one word: assignments.

Of course, most teams aren't Houston or Golden State, so having Rondo w/KCP or Hart in the starting lineup is redundant vs most teams. Lonzo is the better choice for an 82 game season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 29, 30, 31 ... 38, 39, 40  Next
Page 30 of 40
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB