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Legend of PLAYOFF RONDO (Woj: Trade to Cavs)
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject:

scooterp10 wrote:

Ziggy wrote:

Rondo is the better PG right now but that doesn't necessarily make him the starter. I actually would love Rondo to head our bench unit with Hart, Kuzma and Beasley. He can play around 25mpg.

I wouldn't mind Lonzo starting for his defense, rebounding, low usage and pace. Rondo is ball dominant and probably won't fit as well with the starters.

I’ll add that I hope Wagner can run in that lineup too with good shooting and hustle he would be a nice fit there.

I love what Wagner has shown, but my expectations are tempered a bit because of our experience with Zubac. I was really high on Zu his rookie season but his age and lack of experience got exposed pretty quickly.

I think a McGee/Beas rotation at center, with spot minutes for Lebron, is pretty good. Anything Mo can give us is just gravy.

Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:04 pm Post subject:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Rondo, Lance, Beasley with LBJ are very good signings, how many times did the young guys get torched in the 4th quarter by guys like Lillard, or get taken down repeatedly by toronto? Now we have tough defenders and playmakers who are solid in crunch time....they're going to win the tough grind it out games on the road now.....

This should be a very dangerous team come playoff time.

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:37 am Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

ESPN's RPM had Randle ranked as the #54 defensive PF in the league (link) and Lopez as the #67 defensive center (link). Both of their DEFRTG scores on nba.com were above 107 (link)--while not as high as IT's 113 and Deng's 110 they were still among the worst on the team.

I think it is time for people to stop being bullies on LG and using

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.
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“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

--Anonymous

deal
Franchise Player

Joined: 17 Aug 2008
Posts: 14902
Location: Earth

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:35 am Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:

Rondo will be great running a very fast 2nd unit.

I know Luke is fond of hockey subs, so, something like:

Rondo
Hart
Lance
Kuz
Beez

That would be a pretty interesting 2nd unit that is quick and fast hitting.

I’m interested in seeing Rondo with the 1st unit.
_________________
Lakers need to build a freaking team !

Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:30 am Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.
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Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:31 am Post subject:

deal wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I’m interested in seeing Rondo with the 1st unit.

I rather see him start. I think him and Lebron will work together better than Lonzo without his 3 pt shot.
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25634

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:33 am Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

Annihilator wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.

“Those factual stats are lies because they completely destroy my argument”
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Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:37 am Post subject:

Megaton wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Annihilator wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.

“Those factual stats are lies because they completely destroy my argument”

If that’s the way you view then that’s on you. That’s not my reasoning.
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Coach Vogel, Kidd, Hollins
Max slot : Kawhi

Annihilator
Star Player

Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:33 am Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

Megaton wrote:

Car54 wrote:

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.

“Those factual stats are lies because they completely destroy my argument”

If that’s the way you view then that’s on you. That’s not my reasoning.

There is no evidence of any reasoning in that post. No stats. No links. Just a mocking emoticon. Rude.
_________________
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

--Anonymous

yammy1688
Starting Rotation

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 460

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:10 am Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:

We don't know if, RIGHT NOW Rondo is better. Ball hasn't even grown into his body yet... I'm certain he's making massive physical strides as all good young players do when they get to benefit from their 1st year of NBA training/conditioning.

His physical growth curve alone has me putting him above Rondo at this very moment.

yammy1688
Starting Rotation

Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 460

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:16 am Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

Megaton wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Annihilator wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.

“Those factual stats are lies because they completely destroy my argument”

If that’s the way you view then that’s on you. That’s not my reasoning.

Cherry picking stats without context does not paint the entire picture of "facts".

This is why the eye test is so important, especially in basketball.

Car54
Franchise Player

Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 14424

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:42 pm Post subject:

yammy1688 wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Megaton wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Annihilator wrote:

Car54 wrote:

Judah wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

Practice wrote:

Inspector Gadget wrote:

venturalakersfan wrote:

laker50 wrote:

Goldenwest hits it on the spot:

Quote:

Sure, except none of those guys are tough defenders

More tougher then last years team

This year’s team is very likely going to be worse than last year’s team defensively.

So we replaced non-D guys in Lopez and Thomas and heck even Randle with more established D guys in Lance/Rondo/McGee and we got worse defensively? Okay.

Lopez and Randle are ”non-D” guys?

Oh, IG.

Randle was one of our best defenders and Lopez wasn't bad.

when someone may actually have a good point. Evidence is much more useful than condescending comments and emoticons. I think you guys owe IG an apology.

For what? I know what I saw and those numbers may be deceiving due to playing time and lineups.

“Those factual stats are lies because they completely destroy my argument”

If that’s the way you view then that’s on you. That’s not my reasoning.

Cherry picking stats without context does not paint the entire picture of "facts".

This is why the eye test is so important, especially in basketball.

Had a debate with some CASUAL Laker fans on FB because they said the lakers was Horrible on defense last season. Their proof was the ppg allowed. So when I pointed out how we went from 29 or 30th to 12 overall but hovered around 6-8 with Lonzo I was told I’m stupid and don’t know what I’m talking about. Yadda Yadda
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epak
Retired Number

Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject:

From what I saw, Julius was good on certain aspects of defense, and not so good on others. Same with Brook. -------- Julius Julius was good when switched onto smaller guys especially on the 3 point line. He's not a rim protector with his 1.7% block rate. And his help defense seemed like it had a lot to be desired (from my eye test). But he still kept guy's fg% lower than average inside the 3 point line). Here's his defensive dashboard: https://stats.nba.com/player/203944/defense-dash/ Compare his dashboard with a rim protector like Clint Capela who had a 5.7% block rate: https://stats.nba.com/player/203991/defense-dash/ Julius did better defending the 3. But Clint held guys %s lower inside the 3. Which makes sense to me. -------- Brook I recall Brook being one of the best at contesting shots. And he had a 4.6% block rate. I thought he was pretty good on help defense. But you don't need the numbers to show you that he lacked in foot speed and it would hurt his perimeter defense. Defensive dashboard: https://stats.nba.com/player/201572/defense-dash/ As you would expect, he was bad at the 3 point line. But I'm surprised he did so well under 10 feet. -------- So depending on what you're looking at, you can make an argument that Brook and Julius were good or bad on defense. Depends on what part of the defense you value. Rim protection? Perimeter defense? Communication and help defense? etc.

Annihilator
Star Player

Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:33 pm Post subject:

epak wrote:

From what I saw, Julius was good on certain aspects of defense, and not so good on others. Same with Brook.

--------
Julius
Julius was good when switched onto smaller guys especially on the 3 point line. He's not a rim protector with his 1.7% block rate. And his help defense seemed like it had a lot to be desired (from my eye test). But he still kept guy's fg% lower than average inside the 3 point line).

Here's his defensive dashboard:
https://stats.nba.com/player/203944/defense-dash/

Compare his dashboard with a rim protector like Clint Capela who had a 5.7% block rate:

https://stats.nba.com/player/203991/defense-dash/

Julius did better defending the 3. But Clint held guys %s lower inside the 3. Which makes sense to me.

--------
Brook
I recall Brook being one of the best at contesting shots. And he had a 4.6% block rate. I thought he was pretty good on help defense. But you don't need the numbers to show you that he lacked in foot speed and it would hurt his perimeter defense.

Defensive dashboard:
https://stats.nba.com/player/201572/defense-dash/

As you would expect, he was bad at the 3 point line.
But I'm surprised he did so well under 10 feet.

--------

So depending on what you're looking at, you can make an argument that Brook and Julius were good or bad on defense. Depends on what part of the defense you value.

Rim protection?
Perimeter defense?
Communication and help defense?
etc.

Wow. Nice.
_________________
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

--Anonymous

tkLAKERS
Starting Rotation

Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 300

Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:03 pm Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:

epak wrote:

Wow. Nice.

Very nice.

splashmtn
Star Player

Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:06 am Post subject:

I love Kobe 24 wrote:

kikanga wrote:

I know what we'll get out of Rondo for the most part.
Lonzo is just more of a question mark. Maybe he steals the starting job, maybe he struggles.
But if Lonzo outperforms Rondo that's a good problem to have. Then Rondo becomes one of the best backup PGs in the league (only other comp I can think of is OKCs Shroeder).

Boston with Irving and rozier off the bench is probably nicest combo

yeah thats a nasty combo. two dudes that are very athletic with wicked handles.

TheBlackMamba
Star Player

Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:22 am Post subject:

epak wrote:

Or you could also say that they covered each other's weaknesses so they worked well as a tandem when they were on the floor together.

lakerican
Star Player

Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3785

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:51 pm Post subject:

Car54 wrote:

deal wrote:

yinoma2001 wrote:

I’m interested in seeing Rondo with the 1st unit.

I rather see him start. I think him and Lebron will work together better than Lonzo without his 3 pt shot.

... and Lonzo will be more confortable with Kuzma & Hart in the 2nd unit.

Dr. Funkbot
Star Player

Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject:

TheBlackMamba wrote:

epak wrote:

Or you could also say that they covered each other's weaknesses so they worked well as a tandem when they were on the floor together.

Same on offense with Brook providing the spacing for Jules to work in the paint.
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4OnTheFloor
Star Player

Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 1148

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject:

Judah wrote:

Nor did Rondo do it alone on the perimeter. Holiday is one of the best defensive guards in the league.

Holiday had his hands full guarding CJ. Rondo shut down Lillard. Go back and watch the games.

TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player

Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21072
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:05 am Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:

TheBlackMamba wrote:

epak wrote:

Or you could also say that they covered each other's weaknesses so they worked well as a tandem when they were on the floor together.

Same on offense with Brook providing the spacing for Jules to work in the paint.

Excellent points. This was a major reason I was hoping we'd be able to keep both Randle and Lopez. They complimented each other's games well on both end of the floor, and covered each other's weaknesses. And Randle was one tough dude for teams to handle when he could play to his strengths.

It's easy to see that, offensively, we're going to be great this year with LeBron and the vets we picked up. We should be up there with near top in the league if we can effectively maintain pace.

Defensively, it's a tough call. When healthy, we could shut teams down last year, particularly late in games. Kudos to Luke if we stay in the top half in the NBA in defensive efficiency again.

TooMuchMajicBuss
Franchise Player

Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 21072
Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:10 am Post subject:

Oh, and great to see Rondo working out with Kuz, Ingram, Zu! Great addition. I hope he does embrace the mentor and player/coach role as he transitions his career in the upcoming years.

Lonzo-Lite
Star Player

Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 5088

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:49 am Post subject:

Rondo and Hart workout https://twitter.com/lakers/status/1034946792134066176?s=21 Who’s the player at the 0:27 mark? _________________ Tacos

818fan
Star Player

Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 4702

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:56 am Post subject:

Lonzo-Lite wrote:

Rondo and Hart workout

https://twitter.com/lakers/status/1034946792134066176?s=21

Who’s the player at the 0:27 mark?

Joel Berry

lakersfever714
Franchise Player

Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11731

Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:17 am Post subject:

Rondo is one strong mofo. Looks like he's putting in a lot of work. I'd rather start Rondo and let Lonzo lead the bench unit. At this point, I'm not sure if Lonzo could even last a full season without incurring an injury. He's still a boy to me. He needs to bulk up that teenager body of his otherwise he's gonna get hurt again. _________________ LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend!

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