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PlantedTanks
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject:

MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:
DocK36 wrote:
It seems like they didn't make an offer for Lopez, they also let Thomas Bryant go, so maybe the FO saw something in Zubac?

Not sure what they saw in Zubac last year. He was awful.


Not as awful as some people on LG thought he was, many of whom laughingly thought Bryant was better. BOTH of Zubac's seasons (the good one, and the disappointing one) were better than Bryant's rookie season.

Zubac has the highest PER among returning Lakers. Only Randle and Lopez rated higher. Zubac's EF36 was second only to Randle. Zubac had the highest Reb% on the Lakers. And even after a hiccup season, he still averages 2.3 blk per 100 possessions over his two year career.

He also happened to be quite dominant in his G-league stint, which say what you will, is used as a tool for evaluating talent. (Or else why do they play?)

He is a young big man who rebounds, blocks shots, shoots 50% (even in his "awful" second season), and even knocks down his free throws! (78%, Good luck finding that in a lot of big men.)

But Magic & Co probably didn't spend enough time on LG to get the full picture of Zubac's unworthiness.

I mean, I was disappointed in how his season started last year, but the more I look at the end result, I'm thinking "What's NOT to like??".


All true but it doesn't matter how many times this is stated at it will be ignored by the majority here.
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PlantedTanks
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Montrezl Harrell? Clippers are fast approaching the hard cap with the signing of Luc Mbah a Moute. Can we get far enough under the cap to sign him to a 1+1 (team option), with a first year salary sufficiently high enough to preclude the Clips from matching? Is he worth the effort?


Heís Randle lite Iíll take him


Haven't seen him play much at all. Thought I read he had center skills with PF size. Does he handle the ball like Randle and can he effectively switch on the perimeter?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject:

az82187 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Montrezl Harrell? Clippers are fast approaching the hard cap with the signing of Luc Mbah a Moute. Can we get far enough under the cap to sign him to a 1+1 (team option), with a first year salary sufficiently high enough to preclude the Clips from matching? Is he worth the effort?


Heís Randle lite Iíll take him


Clippers are $8.8mm under the tax. A $10mm+ first year salary is probably required in order to thwart the Clippers from matching. How can we get another $5mm or so more under the cap? Is stretching Deng now rather than next season worth the chance of signing Harrell?


We'll only stretch Deng if we can get a star in return (IMO). Otherwise, just keep him for a year and suddenly he's an expiring asset next year.

Honestly, the FO has put us in a great position with Deng. (considering where we started...)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject:

Cow wrote:
az82187 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Montrezl Harrell? Clippers are fast approaching the hard cap with the signing of Luc Mbah a Moute. Can we get far enough under the cap to sign him to a 1+1 (team option), with a first year salary sufficiently high enough to preclude the Clips from matching? Is he worth the effort?


Heís Randle lite Iíll take him


Clippers are $8.8mm under the tax. A $10mm+ first year salary is probably required in order to thwart the Clippers from matching. How can we get another $5mm or so more under the cap? Is stretching Deng now rather than next season worth the chance of signing Harrell?


We'll only stretch Deng if we can get a star in return (IMO). Otherwise, just keep him for a year and suddenly he's an expiring asset next year.

Honestly, the FO has put us in a great position with Deng. (considering where we started...)


Yes that's what I figured.

According to Larry Coon's F.A.Q. page:

When a restricted free agent wants to sign with another team, the player and team sign an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given two days to match. The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years), and a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract).

Thus, the only way we can get him for 1+1 is if the Clips renounce him which means that he is no longer a restricted free agent. Doubt that happens.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject:

What if weíre waiting for chris bosh to be cleared by doctors?

Thereís just no way magic and pelinka donít address this gaping hole in the middle. Why half ass this build now when weíre so close? They must have something cooking.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject:

Is Alex Len still out there?

edit: Just a straight up question, sort of feel him and McGee on the same side would be a bit redundant.

edit edit: Tarik's also still available. Would probably play fit well with Lonzo.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:07 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
MickMgl wrote:
Judah wrote:
DocK36 wrote:
It seems like they didn't make an offer for Lopez, they also let Thomas Bryant go, so maybe the FO saw something in Zubac?

Not sure what they saw in Zubac last year. He was awful.


Not as awful as some people on LG thought he was, many of whom laughingly thought Bryant was better. BOTH of Zubac's seasons (the good one, and the disappointing one) were better than Bryant's rookie season.

Zubac has the highest PER among returning Lakers. Only Randle and Lopez rated higher. Zubac's EF36 was second only to Randle. Zubac had the highest Reb% on the Lakers. And even after a hiccup season, he still averages 2.3 blk per 100 possessions over his two year career.

He also happened to be quite dominant in his G-league stint, which say what you will, is used as a tool for evaluating talent. (Or else why do they play?)

He is a young big man who rebounds, blocks shots, shoots 50% (even in his "awful" second season), and even knocks down his free throws! (78%, Good luck finding that in a lot of big men.)

But Magic & Co probably didn't spend enough time on LG to get the full picture of Zubac's unworthiness.

I mean, I was disappointed in how his season started last year, but the more I look at the end result, I'm thinking "What's NOT to like??".


All true but it doesn't matter how many times this is stated at it will be ignored by the majority here.


i love analytics (it's what i do for a living), but using per 100 possessions or per 36 and metrics in those realms is flawed for a guy averaging as few minutes as Zu did.

recall back to the Jordan Hill years where he was a beast coming off the bench in limited minutes. give him extended run and his productivity dropped off significantly.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:08 am    Post subject:

Pidge wrote:
Is Alex Len still out there?

edit: Just a straight up question, sort of feel him and McGee on the same side would be a bit redundant.

edit edit: Tarik's also still available. Would probably play fit well with Lonzo.


yes he is
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JeezyXVII
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:25 am    Post subject:

Magic and Rob of all people should know, in order to win, you need a solid paint player.

Magic had KAJ, McAdoo for his title runs.
Rob knows Kobe had Shaq and Gasol @ the 5 for those title runs.

im surprised they haven't gotten us 1 starting quality 5 yet. Especially in a conference where you play AD, KAT, Boogie, DJ, Jokic, Nurkic, Adams, Capela, Gobert. Gasol and so on come playoff time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:45 am    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
Magic and Rob of all people should know, in order to win, you need a solid paint player.

Magic had KAJ, McAdoo for his title runs.
Rob knows Kobe had Shaq and Gasol @ the 5 for those title runs.

im surprised they haven't gotten us 1 starting quality 5 yet. Especially in a conference where you play AD, KAT, Boogie, DJ, Jokic, Nurkic, Adams, Capela, Gobert. Gasol and so on come playoff time.


I agree with the reasoning but am willing to give them the benefit of doubt they may know more about the expectations and roles on the roster then most of us.

Perhaps they have more confidence in the center by committee approach then we do. Assuming they have more available info on just how much Zubac has improved or how many mpg McGee will play. Even how much they expect from Wagner in his rookie year.

I have concerns too. The center position seems like the weak link but I'm assuming the coaches and FO have a plan to offset the perceived weakness. I do think the strength of the team is currently the depth and interchangeability of the wings. Centers just need to hold ground and not be dominated on a nightly basis.

Even if all the above centers mentioned do dominate can the Lakers keep the other opposing players in check enough to offset the center advantage? I can optimistically see it working.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:39 am    Post subject:

PlantedTanks wrote:
Car54 wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Montrezl Harrell? Clippers are fast approaching the hard cap with the signing of Luc Mbah a Moute. Can we get far enough under the cap to sign him to a 1+1 (team option), with a first year salary sufficiently high enough to preclude the Clips from matching? Is he worth the effort?


Heís Randle lite Iíll take him


Haven't seen him play much at all. Thought I read he had center skills with PF size. Does he handle the ball like Randle and can he effectively switch on the perimeter?


No and no, he is more like McGee. I would compare him to Nance, I preferred we draft Harrell over Nance at the time.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject:

Cow wrote:
az82187 wrote:
Car54 wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Montrezl Harrell? Clippers are fast approaching the hard cap with the signing of Luc Mbah a Moute. Can we get far enough under the cap to sign him to a 1+1 (team option), with a first year salary sufficiently high enough to preclude the Clips from matching? Is he worth the effort?


Heís Randle lite Iíll take him


Clippers are $8.8mm under the tax. A $10mm+ first year salary is probably required in order to thwart the Clippers from matching. How can we get another $5mm or so more under the cap? Is stretching Deng now rather than next season worth the chance of signing Harrell?


We'll only stretch Deng if we can get a star in return (IMO). Otherwise, just keep him for a year and suddenly he's an expiring asset next year.

Honestly, the FO has put us in a great position with Deng. (considering where we started...)


There will be more expiring contracts next offseason than there will be takers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 am    Post subject:

How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:36 am    Post subject:

our Center Depth is not great but its okay

I think Zu can and should be our starting center

he did well in games 2nd half of the season where he got some minutes

14 and 9 in 19 minutes against Minnesota where he played again Giorgi Jeng and KAT ...> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8BhVjH8erw

If the warriors started Zaza at one point, then we can start Zubac and give him 22-27 minutes a game and Mcgee 12-17 minutes with Wagner (if not in G league) about 8-10 minutes;

while running smaller line ups with Lebron, Ingram, Kuz as center
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:32 am    Post subject:

Who was the starting center and backup center for the team who won the championship this year?

Anyone see where Iím going with this?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:33 am    Post subject:

https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject:

az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:02 am    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.


It's not "signing" Whiteseide. It's leveraging Deng's 18 million for this year to get Whiteside for about 25 million. The difference in salaries might be worth the difference in production. Or it might not. That's why I'm proposing it as a suggestion. Also, if Whiteside does indeed have a good year then unloading him next summer may be more practical than unloading Deng next summer.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

I agree sir.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:09 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

I agree sir.


Explains why randle didnít want to come back imo .

I think lebron could win his first DPOY anchoring this defense
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject:

BlackStarMamba wrote:
our Center Depth is not great but its okay

I think Zu can and should be our starting center

he did well in games 2nd half of the season where he got some minutes

14 and 9 in 19 minutes against Minnesota where he played again Giorgi Jeng and KAT ...> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8BhVjH8erw

If the warriors started Zaza at one point, then we can start Zubac and give him 22-27 minutes a game and Mcgee 12-17 minutes with Wagner (if not in G league) about 8-10 minutes;

while running smaller line ups with Lebron, Ingram, Kuz as center

It remains to be seen whether or not they exercised Zubacís option because they see him as part of the future and intend to play him. emplay seemed to indicate that picking up his option saved them money and they can use him as a trade chip. If that was their intention it makes a lot more sense than Luke and the FO being convinced that he makes the most sense as starting C next year when the goal is to win a championship. If the team goes into the season without upgrading the C spot, McGee is definitely the one who's primed to start. He protects the rim, is a lob threat, and runs the floor extremely well. Based off of what we've heard it almost sounds like they want to play even faster next season. If they signed McGee with that in mind, it makes some sense that he was brought in to start.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.


It's not "signing" Whiteseide. It's leveraging Deng's 18 million for this year to get Whiteside for about 25 million. The difference in salaries might be worth the difference in production. Or it might not. That's why I'm proposing it as a suggestion. Also, if Whiteside does indeed have a good year then unloading him next summer may be more practical than unloading Deng next summer.


You want to get rid of Deng's contract not essentially make it longer for a 2 year player.

Haven't you been paying attention to free agency this year? Non-stars are not commanding those kind of contracts anymore. That would be an incredibly terrible decision to trade Deng for Whiteside. The difference between salaries is NOT worth the difference in production.

Why do you want to make signing a potential free agent next year HARDER?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:32 am    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:38 am    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.


It's not "signing" Whiteseide. It's leveraging Deng's 18 million for this year to get Whiteside for about 25 million. The difference in salaries might be worth the difference in production. Or it might not. That's why I'm proposing it as a suggestion. Also, if Whiteside does indeed have a good year then unloading him next summer may be more practical than unloading Deng next summer.


You want to get rid of Deng's contract not essentially make it longer for a 2 year player.

Haven't you been paying attention to free agency this year? Non-stars are not commanding those kind of contracts anymore. That would be an incredibly terrible decision to trade Deng for Whiteside. The difference between salaries is NOT worth the difference in production.

Why do you want to make signing a potential free agent next year HARDER?


Is it absolutely easier to unload Deng's $18.8mm rather than Whiteside's $27mm??
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject:

az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.


It's not "signing" Whiteseide. It's leveraging Deng's 18 million for this year to get Whiteside for about 25 million. The difference in salaries might be worth the difference in production. Or it might not. That's why I'm proposing it as a suggestion. Also, if Whiteside does indeed have a good year then unloading him next summer may be more practical than unloading Deng next summer.


You want to get rid of Deng's contract not essentially make it longer for a 2 year player.

Haven't you been paying attention to free agency this year? Non-stars are not commanding those kind of contracts anymore. That would be an incredibly terrible decision to trade Deng for Whiteside. The difference between salaries is NOT worth the difference in production.

Why do you want to make signing a potential free agent next year HARDER?


Is it absolutely easier to unload Deng's $18.8mm rather than Whiteside's $27mm??


If you're looking to take zero payroll back, there will be significantly less teams with cap space willing to do so. Yes.
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