We Still Need a Starting Center
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.
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PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso - Bonga
SG - Pope - Mykhailiuk - Mayo - Newman
C - McGee - Kuzma - Zubac
PF - James - Stephenson - Wagner
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:13 pm    Post subject:

I like that closing lineup a lot but we all know some of the lineups Luke sent out there last year - hard to be certain that he will play the lineup that is the most deadly.
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az82187
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:18 pm    Post subject:

OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
OC Lakerfan wrote:
az82187 wrote:
How about Deng and Zu for Whiteside? Deng had his last good year in Miami and Whiteside is probably worth the $7mm difference between his and Deng's salary for this year (plus the cost of losing Zu). Also, Whiteside will probably be a more sought after contract next summer than Deng. He will still cost a bit more but at least he can be a productive role player, but Deng not so much.


Whiteside is terrible. If we are spending cap space (other than 1 year rentals) on non-max players, we are doing it wrong. They didn't shed draft picks and former players to sign Whiteside dude.


It's not "signing" Whiteseide. It's leveraging Deng's 18 million for this year to get Whiteside for about 25 million. The difference in salaries might be worth the difference in production. Or it might not. That's why I'm proposing it as a suggestion. Also, if Whiteside does indeed have a good year then unloading him next summer may be more practical than unloading Deng next summer.


You want to get rid of Deng's contract not essentially make it longer for a 2 year player.

Haven't you been paying attention to free agency this year? Non-stars are not commanding those kind of contracts anymore. That would be an incredibly terrible decision to trade Deng for Whiteside. The difference between salaries is NOT worth the difference in production.

Why do you want to make signing a potential free agent next year HARDER?


Is it absolutely easier to unload Deng's $18.8mm rather than Whiteside's $27mm??


If you're looking to take zero payroll back, there will be significantly less teams with cap space willing to do so. Yes.


I think I agree. Just wanted to get opinions on the idea.
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
I like that closing lineup a lot but we all know some of the lineups Luke sent out there last year - hard to be certain that he will play the lineup that is the most deadly.

If he canít ascertain that the Ingram/Kuzma/James frontcourt gives the team the best chance to win most nights, his days will be numbered ...

But itís a moot point because he already knows. This is why the front office didnít give him a ďlegitimateĒ center like Lopez. They didnít even want to tempt the coaches to play the guy who is a veteran and former all-star. They wanted the cards to be stacked toward a Kuzma/Ingram/James frontcourt finishing lineup, and theyíve done just that.
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PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso - Bonga
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PF - James - Stephenson - Wagner
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AirKobe8
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Just for hypothesis sake: how bad can Deng be as a small ball Center, purely for defensive and rebounding purposes?

For the record, I don't think it could work, but we need a center, he's not going anywhere and we have plenty of forwards.

It's one think that he looks slow vs. quick guards and SFs, but maybe as a center he can do all right?

People were asking for us to sign Mbah a Moute, who's smaller than him, to play center. Jordan Bell is the same size and fills that role for GSW (of course he's obviously more athletic).
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LBJ23
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Javel should do it. He will only play like 18 to 20 min a game and players like Lebron, Mo, and maybe Kuz will fill in the rest of the minutes
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

I'm fine with center by committee to start the season but hopefully we can get an upgrade at the deadline.

Robin Lopez, Marc Gasol, and Hassan Whiteside are all guys I'd target and could be available then.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:10 pm    Post subject:

Robin would be ideal, if Chicago would give him up
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:21 pm    Post subject:

AirKobe8 wrote:
Just for hypothesis sake: how bad can Deng be as a small ball Center, purely for defensive and rebounding purposes?

For the record, I don't think it could work, but we need a center, he's not going anywhere and we have plenty of forwards.

It's one think that he looks slow vs. quick guards and SFs, but maybe as a center he can do all right?

People were asking for us to sign Mbah a Moute, who's smaller than him, to play center. Jordan Bell is the same size and fills that role for GSW (of course he's obviously more athletic).

Been saying it all year. DíAntoni would play him there and be called a genius.
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PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso - Bonga
SG - Pope - Mykhailiuk - Mayo - Newman
C - McGee - Kuzma - Zubac
PF - James - Stephenson - Wagner
SF - Ingram - Hart - Deng
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Joe Pesci
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
Javel should do it. He will only play like 18 to 20 min a game and players like Lebron, Mo, and maybe Kuz will fill in the rest of the minutes

Come on in sir. We have a table waiting for you.
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PG - Rondo - Ball - Caruso - Bonga
SG - Pope - Mykhailiuk - Mayo - Newman
C - McGee - Kuzma - Zubac
PF - James - Stephenson - Wagner
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PHILosophize
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
Javel should do it. He will only play like 18 to 20 min a game and players like Lebron, Mo, and maybe Kuz will fill in the rest of the minutes

Come on in sir. We have a table waiting for you.


is seafood being served at this table
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.

Well, I think my point was relatively clear. I mentioned the beginning of the game and against teams with traditional Cís in size. If it's the end of the game and the other team is going small then there's no issue.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:18 am    Post subject:

We aren't going to rely on Javale as our primary center. As many have said, expect about 10-12 minutes from him. Just based on his history and the likely role he'll have here (shot swatter/lob target/energy burst big) he won't be relied on consistently into any real game plan. He may indeed start, but the bulk of minutes at the 5 position will not go to him. He's too one dimensional offensively, doesn't have a post game, not a good facilitator, only a mediocre screener. On defense he has his moments, but his days of high end athleticism are coming to an end. He's good in moments as we saw in the Finals, but anyone counting on that through a season are setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. There is a reason GSW started playing Looney and Bell over him. They are smarter players, better switch defenders, and have higher upside. There is a reason we only signed him or a one year vet minimum deal. So its not the end of the world that we have him. Honestly, 10 minutes of high energy play is good enough. Again, its only one year on a vet min deal. He won't be a Laker after this year.
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ShowtimeDynasty_24/7
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:23 am    Post subject:

I would expect us to be huge players in the inevitable buyout market, that could be coming soon. There will be some bigs available. I'm sure Pelinka has forecasted some guys being let out their contracts. Guys I would look at are Kenneth Faried, Kosta Koufous, Jason Smith.
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OC Lakerfan
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject:

ShowtimeDynasty_24/7 wrote:
We aren't going to rely on Javale as our primary center. As many have said, expect about 10-12 minutes from him. Just based on his history and the likely role he'll have here (shot swatter/lob target/energy burst big) he won't be relied on consistently into any real game plan. He may indeed start, but the bulk of minutes at the 5 position will not go to him. He's too one dimensional offensively, doesn't have a post game, not a good facilitator, only a mediocre screener. On defense he has his moments, but his days of high end athleticism are coming to an end. He's good in moments as we saw in the Finals, but anyone counting on that through a season are setting themselves up for a massive disappointment. There is a reason GSW started playing Looney and Bell over him. They are smarter players, better switch defenders, and have higher upside. There is a reason we only signed him or a one year vet minimum deal. So its not the end of the world that we have him. Honestly, 10 minutes of high energy play is good enough. Again, its only one year on a vet min deal. He won't be a Laker after this year.


Paragraphs please... I think there's a possibility he stays. A low maintenance, rim protecting, finisher at the rim is always a good piece on a team. He was a key contributor with two of the Warriors championship run. We'll see how he does this year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.


I don't think LeBron wants oris the best choice to close games at C. Can he match on the glass or defend in the post guys like with A. Davis, Cousins, Capela, Jokic, Aldrige Towns or even Nurkic? These are likely the other centers that will be in the playoffs in the west.
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LBJ23
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:43 am    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.


I don't think LeBron wants oris the best choice to close games at C. Can he match on the glass or defend in the post guys like with A. Davis, Cousins, Capela, Jokic, Aldrige Towns or even Nurkic? These are likely the other centers that will be in the playoffs in the west.


He is against the Warriors when Green is at C. That would also give him time off on defense.
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lewis
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject:

LBJ23 wrote:
lewis wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.


I don't think LeBron wants oris the best choice to close games at C. Can he match on the glass or defend in the post guys like with A. Davis, Cousins, Capela, Jokic, Aldrige Towns or even Nurkic? These are likely the other centers that will be in the playoffs in the west.


He is against the Warriors when Green is at C. That would also give him time off on defense.


Not if Cousins replaces Igoudala in that lineup.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject:

LakerMindLA wrote:
Who is going to rebound the ball.

We don't have a single big known for rebounding.

Josh Hart!
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject:

Does Deng, Zubac and a future #1 plus cash get us Tristan Thompson?
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Rebound? Just get the pass
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:43 pm    Post subject:

lewis wrote:
LBJ23 wrote:
lewis wrote:
Joe Pesci wrote:
Judah wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
https://youtu.be/AV3O94yv4vc

What if magic plans on using lebron in that Julius Randle role. Lebron as the small ball 5 would change the game. I think you are forced to go small and match up with him.

Lebron
Kuzma
Ingram
KCP
Lonzo

Lebron + Lonzo PnR

Lebron + Kuzma PnR

Lebron running the PnR from the 5

We could force teams to play our way if lebron is ok with it.
Teams with players like embiid would be pissed. You canít hide embiid anywhere defensively against that lineup. No matter what heís out of the paint

https://youtu.be/vIZui0MEfcw

A lot of his defensive highlights are in the paint

No way they start games with that lineup against teams that start a C with traditional size. They'd practically be begging him to wear himself out and get injured.

Not to begin games, no, but definitely to end most games.

That is CLEARLY the best lineup (with Rondo and Hart able to supplant Ball and Pope), and it is CLEARLY the lineup the front office has eyed as the game changing lineup like the OP has stated.

The idea is completely reasonable, and it really shouldnít be fought like itís being fought. I suppose people really do have to see it to believe before they get on board.


I don't think LeBron wants oris the best choice to close games at C. Can he match on the glass or defend in the post guys like with A. Davis, Cousins, Capela, Jokic, Aldrige Towns or even Nurkic? These are likely the other centers that will be in the playoffs in the west.


He is against the Warriors when Green is at C. That would also give him time off on defense.


Not if Cousins replaces Igoudala in that lineup.

Cousins is coming off a major injury and most certainly won't be the same guy anymore. I would expect him to be a lot easier to deal with next season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Rebound? Just get the pass



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject:

If Croatia wins the world cup, Zubac will be the starting center.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
If Croatia wins the world cup, Zubac will be the starting center.


One has nothing to do with the other.
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