|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
 Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | Riiiiggghhhtttt.... so no young stud is coming here, and yet KG conveniently is even though McHale hates the Lakers, KG came out and said that he wanted to stay in Minny, or the fact that other teams can come up with some pretty good trade bait as well? Bad argument.
And it's not just about Kobe and Bynum. Once more, it's Kobe + Bynum + All Star. That is better than only Kobe + KG. The Lakers want to keep Bynum and trade Odom for that All Star. That is the correct path to choose. |
No one said KG is for sure coming here. "If KG is available" was what was said actually.
What All Star is going to be traded for Lamar Odom alone? None that would make an impact that KG would. Besides, what is the purpose of adding and an All Star to play with Kobe and a guy who plays 5 minutes a game? Bynum does not even enter into the equation and I don't forsee him getting much more playing time under Phil the next two seasons. |
Odom might not be valued much around here by Laker fans, but the GMs of the NBA can see the value he brings to his team. Everyone is caught up with scoring this and scoring that, and unfortunately, they always miss on Odom doing well in other areas of a basketball game. Simply, he does the dirty work to help a team succeed.
As for Bynum, are you saying he will never improve beyond what he has shown already? If this kid's potential was this low, the Lakers would not have mentioned him as one of the untouchables of this team. The Lakers and everyone who has seen Bynum for prolong periods of time agree that he can be a very special player. Phil might be stubborn about rookies, but if he has a big man C like Bynum showing he can play, then Phil will not hesitate to use him.
As a matter of fact, Phil hasn't hesitated to use Bynum with Chris Mihm out, but Bynum still has to learn more about the game before he gets more minutes on the floor. This a fairer assessment of Bynum. He's not ready, but he shows that he can improve. It has been a major difference since Bynum was last in HS to the person he is today. That type of improvement is astonishing to say the least.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | Your argument of Kobe and KG don't need another star is a bad argument. Are you saying if a player like Shawn Marion became available you wouldn't want to add him to Kobe and KG because they were enough? If Kobe and Shaq couldn't do it by themselves during 03 and 04, then what makes you think Kobe and KG can do it with inferior role player help? Kobe and KG is not enough.
Seriously, analyze the roster with Kobe and KG, assuming the trade in the original post happened. Tell us how this team would be better than the Spurs or the Pistons. Break it down. None of this rhetoric of Kobe and KG are instant championship contenders. |
That is all true.
But at the same time, once you have Bryant and KG - You need to use the MLE wisely and probably make one small trade to be better than the Spurs or Pistions.
I don't think the Lakers would win this season with KG - But next season I would say within 1-2 marginal moves they would be able to put forth a championship roster. |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
Now the same applies to if the Lakers get Kobe + All Star + Bynum. However, with this set up, I feel we would have at least 3 positions filled and a little more cap space due to Bynum's rookie contract and Brian Grant's contract coming off the books. Armed with that we will at least have a chance in the FA market to get a good role player. This might not be enough to beat the Spurs or Pistons, but I do feel it can be competitive without giving up the future in Bynum as well. |
Well my MLE target would be James Posey.
I would look to trade for a defensive PG like Earl Watson and Chris Duhon using Cook and maybe even Parker as trade bait.
Mihm/Kwame
KG
Posey/Walton
Bryant
Watson/Vujacic
^
I can see that rotation competing for a ring.
You have an elite PF and SG. Two-way players at SF and PG - especially who can defend. Solid low post player who can block shots in Mihm. One of the quality post defenders at C in Kwame .....
Last edited by wolfpaclaker on Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | Your argument of Kobe and KG don't need another star is a bad argument. Are you saying if a player like Shawn Marion became available you wouldn't want to add him to Kobe and KG because they were enough? If Kobe and Shaq couldn't do it by themselves during 03 and 04, then what makes you think Kobe and KG can do it with inferior role player help? Kobe and KG is not enough.
Seriously, analyze the roster with Kobe and KG, assuming the trade in the original post happened. Tell us how this team would be better than the Spurs or the Pistons. Break it down. None of this rhetoric of Kobe and KG are instant championship contenders. |
That is all true.
But at the same time, once you have Bryant and KG - You need to use the MLE wisely and probably make one small trade to be better than the Spurs or Pistions.
I don't think the Lakers would win this season with KG - But next season I would say within 1-2 marginal moves they would be able to put forth a championship roster. |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
Now the same applies to if the Lakers get Kobe + All Star + Bynum. However, with this set up, I feel we would have at least 3 positions filled and a little more cap space due to Bynum's rookie contract and Brian Grant's contract coming off the books. Armed with that we will at least have a chance in the FA market to get a good role player. This might not be enough to beat the Spurs or Pistons, but I do feel it can be competitive without giving up the future in Bynum as well. |
Well my MLE target would be James Posey.
I would look to trade for a defensive PG like Earl Watson and Chris Duhon using Cook and maybe even Parker as trade bait.
Mihm/Kwame
KG
Posey/Walton
Bryant
Watson/Vujacic
^
I can see that rotation competing for a ring.
You have an elite PF and SG. Two-way players are SF and PG - especially who can defend. Solid low post player who can block shots in Mihm. One of the quality post defenders at C in Kwame ..... |
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18199
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zhengi wrote: |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
|
The year the Lakers signed Samaki Walker (2001) was the first year the stiffer (dollar-for-dollar) luxury tax came into effect. The Lakers were very tight-fisted with their money that off-season as were a lot of teams. That's the reason they let B-Shaw go only to re-sign him a few days later at a lower price.
The quality of players you can get for the MLE these days has risen in the last two years because every team (except the Knicks) doesn't want to get hammered by luxury taxes. Shareef, Watson, Daniels, Swift, Raja Bell, Turkoglu all had to settle for MLEs whereas in previous years teams would have overpaid to get these players. A lot of teams didn't even offer their MLE this past summer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zhengi wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | Riiiiggghhhtttt.... so no young stud is coming here, and yet KG conveniently is even though McHale hates the Lakers, KG came out and said that he wanted to stay in Minny, or the fact that other teams can come up with some pretty good trade bait as well? Bad argument.
And it's not just about Kobe and Bynum. Once more, it's Kobe + Bynum + All Star. That is better than only Kobe + KG. The Lakers want to keep Bynum and trade Odom for that All Star. That is the correct path to choose. |
No one said KG is for sure coming here. "If KG is available" was what was said actually.
What All Star is going to be traded for Lamar Odom alone? None that would make an impact that KG would. Besides, what is the purpose of adding and an All Star to play with Kobe and a guy who plays 5 minutes a game? Bynum does not even enter into the equation and I don't forsee him getting much more playing time under Phil the next two seasons. |
Odom might not be valued much around here by Laker fans, but the GMs of the NBA can see the value he brings to his team. Everyone is caught up with scoring this and scoring that, and unfortunately, they always miss on Odom doing well in other areas of a basketball game. Simply, he does the dirty work to help a team succeed.
As for Bynum, are you saying he will never improve beyond what he has shown already? If this kid's potential was this low, the Lakers would not have mentioned him as one of the untouchables of this team. The Lakers and everyone who has seen Bynum for prolong periods of time agree that he can be a very special player. Phil might be stubborn about rookies, but if he has a big man C like Bynum showing he can play, then Phil will not hesitate to use him.
As a matter of fact, Phil hasn't hesitated to use Bynum with Chris Mihm out, but Bynum still has to learn more about the game before he gets more minutes on the floor. This a fairer assessment of Bynum. He's not ready, but he shows that he can improve. It has been a major difference since Bynum was last in HS to the person he is today. That type of improvement is astonishing to say the least. |
Odom may be valued around the league, but not enough for a GM to give up their all star for. At least the kind of all star that would make a difference.
I absolutely believe Bynum will continue to improve. But I would also never risk a sure thing in KG by holding on to Bynum, a potential. Jermaine O'Neil is always brought up as a young HS player that was traded too quickly, before he could improve. But JO isn't even as good as KG! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | Your argument of Kobe and KG don't need another star is a bad argument. Are you saying if a player like Shawn Marion became available you wouldn't want to add him to Kobe and KG because they were enough? If Kobe and Shaq couldn't do it by themselves during 03 and 04, then what makes you think Kobe and KG can do it with inferior role player help? Kobe and KG is not enough.
Seriously, analyze the roster with Kobe and KG, assuming the trade in the original post happened. Tell us how this team would be better than the Spurs or the Pistons. Break it down. None of this rhetoric of Kobe and KG are instant championship contenders. |
That is all true.
But at the same time, once you have Bryant and KG - You need to use the MLE wisely and probably make one small trade to be better than the Spurs or Pistions.
I don't think the Lakers would win this season with KG - But next season I would say within 1-2 marginal moves they would be able to put forth a championship roster. |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
Now the same applies to if the Lakers get Kobe + All Star + Bynum. However, with this set up, I feel we would have at least 3 positions filled and a little more cap space due to Bynum's rookie contract and Brian Grant's contract coming off the books. Armed with that we will at least have a chance in the FA market to get a good role player. This might not be enough to beat the Spurs or Pistons, but I do feel it can be competitive without giving up the future in Bynum as well. |
Well my MLE target would be James Posey.
I would look to trade for a defensive PG like Earl Watson and Chris Duhon using Cook and maybe even Parker as trade bait.
Mihm/Kwame
KG
Posey/Walton
Bryant
Watson/Vujacic
^
I can see that rotation competing for a ring.
You have an elite PF and SG. Two-way players at SF and PG - especially who can defend. Solid low post player who can block shots in Mihm. One of the quality post defenders at C in Kwame ..... |
I'm not certain how realistic trading Cook is for Watson or Duhon is, but if Bynum proves that he can become a starter, that would make either Mihm or Kwame expendable at this point. I don't think teams would want Kwame at this point since his third year option was picked up.
Now previously, I used Rashard Lewis as an example of an All Star who we can pick up. This would be our line up:
Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Kwame/Cook/Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum
Now assuming we can get a PF for the MLE, someone like perhaps Reggie Evans, Mihm can become expendable. I believe the Nuggets or Bulls would more readily give up either Watson or Duhon for Mihm rather than Cook. Our new line up would be:
Watson/Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Evans/Cook/Turiaf
Kwame/Bynum
And this line up gives Bynum minutes to improve. In time, hopefully the line up has Bynum starting at C with Kwame backing him up.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
^
I have no problem with keeping Bynum and waiting for him to develop.
But if you have a chance at getting KG and putting a roster together for next season that can win a championship - You must take it. And I would.
As for LO for Shard - I have never been a fan of that trade. Unless they were sending Ridnour with him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
|
The year the Lakers signed Samaki Walker (2001) was the first year the stiffer (dollar-for-dollar) luxury tax came into effect. The Lakers were very tight-fisted with their money that off-season as were a lot of teams. That's the reason they let B-Shaw go only to re-sign him a few days later at a lower price.
The quality of players you can get for the MLE these days has risen in the last two years because every team (except the Knicks) doesn't want to get hammered by luxury taxes. Shareef, Watson, Daniels, Swift, Raja Bell, Turkoglu all had to settle for MLEs whereas in previous years teams would have overpaid to get these players. A lot of teams didn't even offer their MLE this past summer. |
Then I'm not certain how this helps the argument that the Lakers will be able to sign a player for the MLE if they were tight fisted about luxury tax payoffs. KG brings them closer to that threshold with his almost $20 mil contract and Kobe's $16 mil contract.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | ^
I have no problem with keeping Bynum and waiting for him to develop.
But if you have a chance at getting KG and putting a roster together for next season that can win a championship - You must take it. And I would.
As for LO for Shard - I have never been a fan of that trade. Unless they were sending Ridnour with him. |
My contention from the beginning is that the Lakers wouldn't. Bynum is untouchable and there aren't enough pieces to put around Kobe and KG to succeed. So I haven't been arguing from the POV of why I wouldn't. I've been aruging from the POV of why it wouldn't happen.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | Your argument of Kobe and KG don't need another star is a bad argument. Are you saying if a player like Shawn Marion became available you wouldn't want to add him to Kobe and KG because they were enough? If Kobe and Shaq couldn't do it by themselves during 03 and 04, then what makes you think Kobe and KG can do it with inferior role player help? Kobe and KG is not enough.
Seriously, analyze the roster with Kobe and KG, assuming the trade in the original post happened. Tell us how this team would be better than the Spurs or the Pistons. Break it down. None of this rhetoric of Kobe and KG are instant championship contenders. |
That is all true.
But at the same time, once you have Bryant and KG - You need to use the MLE wisely and probably make one small trade to be better than the Spurs or Pistions.
I don't think the Lakers would win this season with KG - But next season I would say within 1-2 marginal moves they would be able to put forth a championship roster. |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
Now the same applies to if the Lakers get Kobe + All Star + Bynum. However, with this set up, I feel we would have at least 3 positions filled and a little more cap space due to Bynum's rookie contract and Brian Grant's contract coming off the books. Armed with that we will at least have a chance in the FA market to get a good role player. This might not be enough to beat the Spurs or Pistons, but I do feel it can be competitive without giving up the future in Bynum as well. |
Well my MLE target would be James Posey.
I would look to trade for a defensive PG like Earl Watson and Chris Duhon using Cook and maybe even Parker as trade bait.
Mihm/Kwame
KG
Posey/Walton
Bryant
Watson/Vujacic
^
I can see that rotation competing for a ring.
You have an elite PF and SG. Two-way players at SF and PG - especially who can defend. Solid low post player who can block shots in Mihm. One of the quality post defenders at C in Kwame ..... |
I'm not certain how realistic trading Cook is for Watson or Duhon is, but if Bynum proves that he can become a starter, that would make either Mihm or Kwame expendable at this point. I don't think teams would want Kwame at this point since his third year option was picked up.
Now previously, I used Rashard Lewis as an example of an All Star who we can pick up. This would be our line up:
Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Kwame/Cook/Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum
Now assuming we can get a PF for the MLE, someone like perhaps Reggie Evans, Mihm can become expendable. I believe the Nuggets or Bulls would more readily give up either Watson or Duhon for Mihm rather than Cook. Our new line up would be:
Watson/Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Evans/Cook/Turiaf
Kwame/Bynum
And this line up gives Bynum minutes to improve. In time, hopefully the line up has Bynum starting at C with Kwame backing him up. |
Rather have Mihm as backup or starter than Kwame. Giving up Mihm for Earl Watson would be a waste. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
Put a stop to this thread...again.
| Quote: | Time isn't on his side anymore. Garnett is an All-Star Game reserve, the first time in six years fans didn't vote him in as a starter. And his Timberwolves team is in jeopardy of missing the playoffs for the second straight season, which fuels speculation that Garnett surely must want to find a new home where he can win a championship.
He remains firm, though, in his stance that he's loyal to the Wolves.
"I'm not the one to give up just because something's rough," he said. "That's a coward. That's not even me. I'm in it for the long haul." |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Quote: | Riiiiggghhhtttt.... so no young stud is coming here, and yet KG conveniently is even though McHale hates the Lakers, KG came out and said that he wanted to stay in Minny, or the fact that other teams can come up with some pretty good trade bait as well? Bad argument.
And it's not just about Kobe and Bynum. Once more, it's Kobe + Bynum + All Star. That is better than only Kobe + KG. The Lakers want to keep Bynum and trade Odom for that All Star. That is the correct path to choose. |
No one said KG is for sure coming here. "If KG is available" was what was said actually.
What All Star is going to be traded for Lamar Odom alone? None that would make an impact that KG would. Besides, what is the purpose of adding and an All Star to play with Kobe and a guy who plays 5 minutes a game? Bynum does not even enter into the equation and I don't forsee him getting much more playing time under Phil the next two seasons. |
Odom might not be valued much around here by Laker fans, but the GMs of the NBA can see the value he brings to his team. Everyone is caught up with scoring this and scoring that, and unfortunately, they always miss on Odom doing well in other areas of a basketball game. Simply, he does the dirty work to help a team succeed.
As for Bynum, are you saying he will never improve beyond what he has shown already? If this kid's potential was this low, the Lakers would not have mentioned him as one of the untouchables of this team. The Lakers and everyone who has seen Bynum for prolong periods of time agree that he can be a very special player. Phil might be stubborn about rookies, but if he has a big man C like Bynum showing he can play, then Phil will not hesitate to use him.
As a matter of fact, Phil hasn't hesitated to use Bynum with Chris Mihm out, but Bynum still has to learn more about the game before he gets more minutes on the floor. This a fairer assessment of Bynum. He's not ready, but he shows that he can improve. It has been a major difference since Bynum was last in HS to the person he is today. That type of improvement is astonishing to say the least. |
Odom may be valued around the league, but not enough for a GM to give up their all star for. At least the kind of all star that would make a difference.
I absolutely believe Bynum will continue to improve. But I would also never risk a sure thing in KG by holding on to Bynum, a potential. Jermaine O'Neil is always brought up as a young HS player that was traded too quickly, before he could improve. But JO isn't even as good as KG! |
KG is a sure thing, but only to a certain extent. Big men traditionally break down at 33 years of age. KG's work ethic will help him though. So our window of opportunity isn't as high. If we do get KG, then we'd have to do everything in our power to improve the team. We can't do it with the current role players, and it becomes more difficult having KG and Kobe's contracts taking up all the cap space for so many years.
As for Bynum's potential, the Lakers trusting in it enough to make him an untouchable is good enough for me. IMO, Lakers would never package Odom + Bynum together. That is giving up too much for any player, even KG. Now if we can swing either Odom or Bynum for an All Star like KG, then we certainly do that deal. That way, you don't deplete all your talents. Here's an example. If we can swing a deal with the Pacers for O'neal with Bynum, then you do it. Kobe + Odom + O'neal is talented. You don't give up both Odom + Bynum in the same deal though. Not enough remaining talent to be effective.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zhengi
Star Player
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 6445
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: |
Rather have Mihm as backup or starter than Kwame. Giving up Mihm for Earl Watson would be a waste. |
I think I would do it. This is banking on Bynum being a better C than Mihm, and he certainly has that potential. It gives us our two-way PG and helps stop dribble penetration. As of this moment, I'm more confident in Bynum's low post defensive presence than Mihm's. Bynum has the ability to alter shots.
_________________
I'm like a Hadouken, down-right Fierce! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
FanInNY
Sixth Man
Joined: 19 Sep 2002
Posts: 39
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
The "conspiracy" would be that the duo would be called The KGB.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | As for Bynum's potential, the Lakers trusting in it enough to make him an untouchable is good enough for me. IMO, Lakers would never package Odom + Bynum together. That is giving up too much for any player, even KG. Now if we can swing either Odom or Bynum for an All Star like KG, then we certainly do that deal. That way, you don't deplete all your talents. Here's an example. If we can swing a deal with the Pacers for O'neal with Bynum, then you do it. Kobe + Odom + O'neal is talented. You don't give up both Odom + Bynum in the same deal though. Not enough remaining talent to be effective. |
I can live with that assessment.
| Quote: | | think I would do it. This is banking on Bynum being a better C than Mihm, and he certainly has that potential. It gives us our two-way PG and helps stop dribble penetration. As of this moment, I'm more confident in Bynum's low post defensive presence than Mihm's. Bynum has the ability to alter shots. |
Even if he doesn't become a better center than Mihm, you still want Mihm and Bynum, not Kwame and Bynum. Kwame is worthless. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fansincemagic
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 11051
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
with the RealGM story going about Garnett likely staying, I'm suprised all the KG talk still rolls on. I'm as guilty as anyone though, maybe if KG is one of the guys that called Kobe about joining the Lakers, does he check in on lakersground? With all the 50 page threads about him, you'd think he'd feel the love.
Oh yeah, I like Posey as much as anyone, but he has a player option. I know he is worth at least 6 mill, if not a bit more, but I don't think he risks that. He is still young enough to take the option and still get a long term deal anyway, although if he became available he'd be an ideal MLE for the Lakers. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pawn
Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 729
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| fansincemagic wrote: | with the RealGM story going about Garnett likely staying, I'm suprised all the KG talk still rolls on. I'm as guilty as anyone though, maybe if KG is one of the guys that called Kobe about joining the Lakers, does he check in on lakersground? With all the 50 page threads about him, you'd think he'd feel the love.
Oh yeah, I like Posey as much as anyone, but he has a player option. I know he is worth at least 6 mill, if not a bit more, but I don't think he risks that. He is still young enough to take the option and still get a long term deal anyway, although if he became available he'd be an ideal MLE for the Lakers. |
That story is just as credible (or lack thereof) as the forum thread about the possible trade. I don't particularly believe that KG is coming, but, do you honestly believe that Garnett would be saying ANYTHING different to the media even if the rumor is true? Do you honestly think KG would light up the entire allstar weekend by alluding to his desire to gtfo of t-pup land? please... It's not his style at all and that much should be clear if you've paid any attention to how he carries himself with the media.
Players and management NEVER lie about trade issues to the media.. :roll: |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
saidodeh
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 256
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Do it mitch!!!!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ppineda
Starting Rotation
Joined: 12 Aug 2003
Posts: 701
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| pawn wrote: | | fansincemagic wrote: | with the RealGM story going about Garnett likely staying, I'm suprised all the KG talk still rolls on. I'm as guilty as anyone though, maybe if KG is one of the guys that called Kobe about joining the Lakers, does he check in on lakersground? With all the 50 page threads about him, you'd think he'd feel the love.
Oh yeah, I like Posey as much as anyone, but he has a player option. I know he is worth at least 6 mill, if not a bit more, but I don't think he risks that. He is still young enough to take the option and still get a long term deal anyway, although if he became available he'd be an ideal MLE for the Lakers. |
That story is just as credible (or lack thereof) as the forum thread about the possible trade. I don't particularly believe that KG is coming, but, do you honestly believe that Garnett would be saying ANYTHING different to the media even if the rumor is true? Do you honestly think KG would light up the entire allstar weekend by alluding to his desire to gtfo of t-pup land? please... It's not his style at all and that much should be clear if you've paid any attention to how he carries himself with the media.
Players and management NEVER lie about trade issues to the media.. :roll: |
So that leaves us with everyone taking any piece of information and either pointing at it to back up what they are saying or pointing at it and screaming "smokescreen". Wow, seems like a lot of useless meaningless time wasting stuff... Well it is the internet after all  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
iml84myd8s
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 598
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Kevin Garnett rumour from a raptor board |
|
|
| KobeButler wrote: | dont know how credible this guy is so take it with a grain of salt.
| Quote: |
rumor: Garnett to the Lakers for Odom, Bynum and George to be declared on Tuesday.
source: An NBA agent whos close to a friend of mine
Take it for whats its worth, im really only posting it (and the reason why its not OT) because if it goes down, it rules the Lakers out of tryna make a play for Bosh when it comes time for him to re-sign
we'll see what happens, but my boy is pretty adamant that its close to a done deal. I cant vouch for the rumor, but i can vouch that he is infact a close friend of an NBA Agent. |
LINK |
Kobe and KG would be an instant championship contender. In addition, the Lakers would have no problem getting free agents. Every player that does not have a championship would be getting in line to join Kobe, KG, Phil and the Lakers.
Timberwolves will not do it because they will lose their big ticket and the fans will not show up to see Lamar or anyone else on their roster. Therefore, it's not going to happen. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Smel Counts
Star Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 1744
Location: corner of Prairie and Manchester
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
First I must say that I LOVE Bynum and barring injury, he's gonna be a freekin star.
But this trade just makes a lot of sense for both teams. So many factors going into this.
If it goes down more players would be involved, not necessarily more teams.
Think about it, w/ Kobe, Kwame, and KG's salaries we can't add any FA's for years, so this trade will have to include a built-in supporting cast that we can keep for at least a few years. Some combo of either Hassell, Jaric, Banks, Davis, and/or McCants would be included. Nobody else would touch most of these guys w/ a 10 foot pole but we're actually gonna need some of them because of our cap restraints.
Why would Minny do it?
-They suck, are capscrewed beyond belief, and ain't contending in the playoffs for another 10 years as currently constructed. They know that rebuilding is their only option. They need KG to go, they have no other choices.
-McHale does know one thing for sure. Talent in a post player. Based on the Knick game alone he's got to have a tremendous frankenerection over Bynum (we've really showcased him beautifully). Combined w/ the Shat incident, the Pacer game, and the Spurs game, he knows Bynum is his only hope to save his once golden legacy in his home state. He'll be very hands on in tutoring Bynum. And they have Blount to play in front of him while he develops.
-They currently have 5 guards who are under long-term contracts (Hudson, Hassell, Jaric, Davis, and McCants) as well as another one (Banks) who they want to sign after this year. Only the Lakers would want to touch any of these guys because we'd have to.
-Odom is a nice player w/ some KG attributes who makes a lot less $. And he can be the main attraction there for a while.
-Hometown product George, Slava, and maybe McKie's contract gives them a ton of cap room starting this summer.
Why Lakers do it?
-We suck and are cap screwed beyond belief.
-We ain't sniffing contention in the playoffs for at least a couple of prime Kobe years.
-We don't fit together as a team and never will w/ Odom.
-The Clippers are beginning to finally steal a lot of thunder. (It started w/ building around hard-working, smart, character guys (Brand, Kaman, Maggette, etc. -You know, THE LAKER WAY) over guys like Odom and Wilcox. Dunleavy is a good coach (Buss knows that first hand).
(If you think the Clipper thing is far-fetched, just think about the Dodger-Angel situation that currently exists- That should scare the crap out of Buss)
-A Minny trade can also provide a built-in system of proper-fitting role players which means instant contention. (Hassell and McCants for instance).
-Buss did promise the playoffs this year.
-A Kobe and KG lineup completely steals back the Clippers thunder.
-Buss is sick of high-priced talent that play/act like they could give a sh**. (i.e. Shat, Odom, Atkins, Grant, etc.) he'll pay if the guys play hard.
Probable Laker lineup for at least 2 more years:
Mihm/Kwame
KG/Turiaf/Cook
Kobe/Walton/Green
Hassell/Sasha
Smush/McCants/Wafer |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Zhengi wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Quote: | Your argument of Kobe and KG don't need another star is a bad argument. Are you saying if a player like Shawn Marion became available you wouldn't want to add him to Kobe and KG because they were enough? If Kobe and Shaq couldn't do it by themselves during 03 and 04, then what makes you think Kobe and KG can do it with inferior role player help? Kobe and KG is not enough.
Seriously, analyze the roster with Kobe and KG, assuming the trade in the original post happened. Tell us how this team would be better than the Spurs or the Pistons. Break it down. None of this rhetoric of Kobe and KG are instant championship contenders. |
That is all true.
But at the same time, once you have Bryant and KG - You need to use the MLE wisely and probably make one small trade to be better than the Spurs or Pistions.
I don't think the Lakers would win this season with KG - But next season I would say within 1-2 marginal moves they would be able to put forth a championship roster. |
That team would indeed be closer, but then one has to ask, who do we get with our MLE. History has shown that when the Lakers needed an MLE player, other teams stepped up and have taken those players away from us. Kendall Gill and Joe Amechi were two FA players who used the Lakers as bargaining chips to increase their own pay out from other teams. Heck, there was a time when we had to get Samaki Walker since the FA interest in LA was weak. So I'm not completely convinced that we can get that MLE player, especially if teams realize the Lakers can become contenders once more.
Now the same applies to if the Lakers get Kobe + All Star + Bynum. However, with this set up, I feel we would have at least 3 positions filled and a little more cap space due to Bynum's rookie contract and Brian Grant's contract coming off the books. Armed with that we will at least have a chance in the FA market to get a good role player. This might not be enough to beat the Spurs or Pistons, but I do feel it can be competitive without giving up the future in Bynum as well. |
Well my MLE target would be James Posey.
I would look to trade for a defensive PG like Earl Watson and Chris Duhon using Cook and maybe even Parker as trade bait.
Mihm/Kwame
KG
Posey/Walton
Bryant
Watson/Vujacic
^
I can see that rotation competing for a ring.
You have an elite PF and SG. Two-way players at SF and PG - especially who can defend. Solid low post player who can block shots in Mihm. One of the quality post defenders at C in Kwame ..... |
I'm not certain how realistic trading Cook is for Watson or Duhon is, but if Bynum proves that he can become a starter, that would make either Mihm or Kwame expendable at this point. I don't think teams would want Kwame at this point since his third year option was picked up.
Now previously, I used Rashard Lewis as an example of an All Star who we can pick up. This would be our line up:
Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Kwame/Cook/Turiaf
Mihm/Bynum
Now assuming we can get a PF for the MLE, someone like perhaps Reggie Evans, Mihm can become expendable. I believe the Nuggets or Bulls would more readily give up either Watson or Duhon for Mihm rather than Cook. Our new line up would be:
Watson/Smush/Sasha
Kobe/Wafer/McKie
Lewis/Luke/Green
Evans/Cook/Turiaf
Kwame/Bynum
And this line up gives Bynum minutes to improve. In time, hopefully the line up has Bynum starting at C with Kwame backing him up. |
Rather have Mihm as backup or starter than Kwame. Giving up Mihm for Earl Watson would be a waste. |
Unless we get Watson and Nene for Mihm I would say no way. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17668
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A line-up of
Andrew
Lamar
Rickey Davis
McCants
Rondo
would be one of the best young teams in 2-3 years |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sage_10
Star Player
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6668
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| dcarter4kobe wrote: | A line-up of
Andrew
Lamar
Rickey Davis
McCants
Rondo
would be one of the best young teams in 2-3 years |
Sorry, who's Rondo?  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17668
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Sage_10 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | A line-up of
Andrew
Lamar
Rickey Davis
McCants
Rondo
would be one of the best young teams in 2-3 years |
Sorry, who's Rondo? |
He is in collage,Here is some info on him
http://nbadraft.net/profiles/rajonrondo.asp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
