Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


I'll take 4th best record in the league.
With a hot streak entering the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

epak wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


I'll take 4th best record in the league.
With a hot streak entering the playoffs.


me too.
i was going to make it more complicated by looking at teams with key young players developing like, but too complicated and too many teams and details...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Excited to see what Ingram looks like.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?

You're right. This is why many of us hate ESPN and most of its analysts.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?


right, that is why i looked at both cavs' gain and miami's loss.
you can say the same about lakers players getting more experience also...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:18 am    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?


right, that is why i looked at both cavs' gain and miami's loss.
you can say the same about lakers players getting more experience also...


We didn't gain a stud like Kevin Love alongside Lebron. What other changes did Miami make besides Lebron leaving?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:21 am    Post subject:

I think the improvements from rookie to second year for Kuzma, Ingram and Hart, and Brandon Ingram's continued development will surprise a lot of non-Laker fans, who expect the Lakers to ride on LeBron's shoulders every game. If Lonzo gets enough of a chance to work on his shooting footwork after recovering from knee surgery, then all the better.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?


right, that is why i looked at both cavs' gain and miami's loss.
you can say the same about lakers players getting more experience also...


We didn't gain a stud like Kevin Love alongside Lebron. What other changes did Miami make besides Lebron leaving?


i dont think love actually played that well in cleveland and i would not take love over bi or kuz.
i dont remember much change in miami after lebron left, and yet they lost 7 point a game.
it is not an exact science thus i took the differential for the team gaining love and the team losing love.

intuitively, if you add lebron, would you not think a 6-7 point improvement is reasonable?
certainly you would think the team has improved by more than 2-3 points per game by adding lebron?

yes jr is gone, but a lot of the problems were when ball was injured last year.
well, there is another starter pg now, so there should be no huge drop-off if ball is injured again.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:07 am    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
I think the improvements from rookie to second year for Kuzma, Ingram and Hart, and Brandon Ingram's continued development will surprise a lot of non-Laker fans, who expect the Lakers to ride on LeBron's shoulders every game. If Lonzo gets enough of a chance to work on his shooting footwork after recovering from knee surgery, then all the better.


I like the depth of the roster. Both young guys and the vets signed.

To me the key for the season and the hopeful development of the young players is chemistry and flow of the game. Will they still have the confidence to push the pace and make mistakes. Or will they instantly defer to James and the vets to lead the way all the time.

Strength of the young guys is to allow them to play. Ingram, Kuzma, KCP and Ball especially. Will they still be the players we saw last year or become spot up options for James, Rondo and Stephenson?

How they play effects the development and win/loss totals.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:31 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
I think the improvements from rookie to second year for Kuzma, Ingram and Hart, and Brandon Ingram's continued development will surprise a lot of non-Laker fans, who expect the Lakers to ride on LeBron's shoulders every game. If Lonzo gets enough of a chance to work on his shooting footwork after recovering from knee surgery, then all the better.


I like the depth of the roster. Both young guys and the vets signed.

To me the key for the season and the hopeful development of the young players is chemistry and flow of the game. Will they still have the confidence to push the pace and make mistakes. Or will they instantly defer to James and the vets to lead the way all the time.

Strength of the young guys is to allow them to play. Ingram, Kuzma, KCP and Ball especially. Will they still be the players we saw last year or become spot up options for James, Rondo and Stephenson?

How they play effects the development and win/loss totals.


we are literally 2 starters deep in 1-4.
that does not count mo or svi as starters, which they are not.

i dont think any other team has that starter depth.
not the warriors or the rockets.
closest team with the depth is the celtics.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?


right, that is why i looked at both cavs' gain and miami's loss.
you can say the same about lakers players getting more experience also...


We didn't gain a stud like Kevin Love alongside Lebron. What other changes did Miami make besides Lebron leaving?


i dont think love actually played that well in cleveland and i would not take love over bi or kuz.
i dont remember much change in miami after lebron left, and yet they lost 7 point a game.
it is not an exact science thus i took the differential for the team gaining love and the team losing love.

intuitively, if you add lebron, would you not think a 6-7 point improvement is reasonable?
certainly you would think the team has improved by more than 2-3 points per game by adding lebron?

yes jr is gone, but a lot of the problems were when ball was injured last year.
well, there is another starter pg now, so there should be no huge drop-off if ball is injured again.


I'd take Kevin Love from 4-5 years ago over anybody on this roster not named Lebron. Love was an absolute stud, before he was relegated to spot up corner shooter.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Lebron effect on Lakers based on his effect in past scoring margin averages

kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
kobeandgary wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
In 2014, Cleveland's scoring margin improved by 6.5 pts per game after Lebron returned. At the same time, Miami's scoring margin went down by 7 pts per game after Lebron left.
https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/average-scoring-margin?date=2015-06-16

If you add 6.5 pts to 7 pts to Lakers' scoring margin last year, there were only 3 teams with better scoring margins - houston, warriors and toronto. These 3 teams won 58-65 games.

Houston arguably got worse. Toronto is about the same. Hard to say about Warriors. They may be older and even more injury-prone. On the other hand, they may played more interested this year.


Didn't Cleveland also land Kevin Love and have a healthier, more experienced Kyrie Irving that season...?


right, that is why i looked at both cavs' gain and miami's loss.
you can say the same about lakers players getting more experience also...


We didn't gain a stud like Kevin Love alongside Lebron. What other changes did Miami make besides Lebron leaving?


i dont think love actually played that well in cleveland and i would not take love over bi or kuz.
i dont remember much change in miami after lebron left, and yet they lost 7 point a game.
it is not an exact science thus i took the differential for the team gaining love and the team losing love.

intuitively, if you add lebron, would you not think a 6-7 point improvement is reasonable?
certainly you would think the team has improved by more than 2-3 points per game by adding lebron?

yes jr is gone, but a lot of the problems were when ball was injured last year.
well, there is another starter pg now, so there should be no huge drop-off if ball is injured again.


I'd take Kevin Love from 4-5 years ago over anybody on this roster not named Lebron. Love was an absolute stud, before he was relegated to spot up corner shooter.


exactly.
he may have been a stud, but his impact on the cavs (and their scoring) was limited to spot up shooter.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

Maybe I'm a pessimist, but I see a slight decline coming from Lebron next season followed by a significant one in the 4th/last year of his contract. This is why I'm thinking we will be closer to 50 wins than 60 next season. We'll need that second superstar next summer to get to 60+ wins and become a legitimate threat to the Warriors imo.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject:

1hu2ren3dui4 wrote:
Excited to see what Ingram looks like.


He’ll be the guy with the curls standing in the corner
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

I predict 55 wins if we have some solid health for key players. 3rd in the West. We'll probably play a lot better post all star break with the team gaining chemistry and heading into the playoffs with confidence.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I think the media is greatly underestimating our players. Brandon Ingram should improve, Kuzma should improve, Lonzo should improve, Josh Hart should improve and that's before we talk about the high usage players like Jordan Clarkson and Isaiah Thomas that we've replaced with more pass orientated players like Rondo and Stephenson.

Look for Ingram to average around 18-19 ppg, Kuzma to hit 17 ppg and Lonzo to average 13 and 8 assists. This team has a chance to be very good.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Kobe_Is_King13 wrote:
I think the media is greatly underestimating our players. Brandon Ingram should improve, Kuzma should improve, Lonzo should improve, Josh Hart should improve and that's before we talk about the high usage players like Jordan Clarkson and Isaiah Thomas that we've replaced with more pass orientated players like Rondo and Stephenson.

Look for Ingram to average around 18-19 ppg, Kuzma to hit 17 ppg and Lonzo to average 13 and 8 assists. This team has a chance to be very good.


yep considering bi and kuz were both 16 pt/game last year, they could easily be in the 18-20 pt/game this year. as you said, jc and it are gone.
if bi and kuz average 20 with lebron getting 25, that is 65 pts right there from 3 starters. it is easy to imagine 35 pt coming from the guards alone.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:30 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
I predict 55 wins if we have some solid health for key players. 3rd in the West. We'll probably play a lot better post all star break with the team gaining chemistry and heading into the playoffs with confidence.
Same here. Wins and team progression this is what I picture as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

Dave McMenamin has Denver ahead of the Lakers next year....

Welcome back, Dave. Too bad you couldn't have stayed in Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
I think the improvements from rookie to second year for Kuzma, Ingram and Hart, and Brandon Ingram's continued development will surprise a lot of non-Laker fans, who expect the Lakers to ride on LeBron's shoulders every game. If Lonzo gets enough of a chance to work on his shooting footwork after recovering from knee surgery, then all the better.


I like the depth of the roster. Both young guys and the vets signed.

To me the key for the season and the hopeful development of the young players is chemistry and flow of the game. Will they still have the confidence to push the pace and make mistakes. Or will they instantly defer to James and the vets to lead the way all the time.

Strength of the young guys is to allow them to play. Ingram, Kuzma, KCP and Ball especially. Will they still be the players we saw last year or become spot up options for James, Rondo and Stephenson?

How they play effects the development and win/loss totals.


we are literally 2 starters deep in 1-4.
that does not count mo or svi as starters, which they are not.

i dont think any other team has that starter depth.
not the warriors or the rockets.
closest team with the depth is the celtics.
I was skeptical at first about Rondo, McGee, and Stephenson. After news about Lonzos surgery tomorrow (hope it goes well!!) and the likelihood he's not going to get the core and leg strength I'd hope he gains, I think Rondo platooning with Lonzo makes a ton of sense now. Excellent choice imo. Javale is a solid choice too if he and Zu can absorb enough time and stay consistent. I'm thinking lobs here, and we have several players willing to serve them up. Would be nice to have a small ball C option that could keep LeBron at the 4.

Stephenson still scares me, but maybe that's the point. Maybe he has just enough Artestian Crazy in him to make Justice Winslow think twice about jamming his knee in BI's groin again. If Lance serves that purpose I'll be just fine with him. To think we wanted him a couple years ago, now he's competing with Hart, Ingram, KCP, and Svi for rotation minutes, and that's assuming LeBron spends his season mostly at the 4 and up.

Yup 1 through 4 we are very solid. Possibly at 5 too. I'm looking forward to this!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
Dave McMenamin has Denver ahead of the Lakers next year....

Welcome back, Dave. Too bad you couldn't have stayed in Cleveland.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:07 pm    Post subject:

Most of us here already know the Lakers are going to be really good next year. But if you were to base your opinion on what the media tells you about this team (and their overreactions over the post-Lebron signings), you would think we're starting Mcgee, Lebron, Lance, KCP, and Rondo with a bench of nobodies. Apparently all our young talent either disappeared or simply won't get much better than they were last season. It's going to be these five guys playing 30+ MPG, with Lebron needing to carry them every night. 45 wins and the 7th seed!

(September/October cannot come soon enough...)
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:49 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
Judah wrote:
Dave McMenamin has Denver ahead of the Lakers next year....

Welcome back, Dave. Too bad you couldn't have stayed in Cleveland.


Is that *** really back? Ugh.
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